Hi, Howdy, Salutations, Greetings- call me Dante! I do video essays on the things that interest me, or things I want to do, or just on things in general- things are cool. Enjoy this menagerie of many interests.
Ok, so about the "feed the algorithm" thing. Since I first subscribed after your first video, youtube has actually been good about giving me a notification since on all your community posts. I can't speak for everyone since I know I don't have very many subscriptions, but I think your ok for the most part (maybe youtube helps out people who make posts on the community tab from week to week). All I know for sure is, I ain't missing out on more Ralsei analysis.
I feel that Noelle blacked out when she did Snowgrave and she doesn’t remember what happened. She fears is something bad but doesn’t know. So I honestly don’t believe Susie knows something. Because she would be very very mad. Susie would confront Kris or us if she knew the truth. For me what happened in the room is that Susie enters and like in normal route she says to Noelle is a dream. That comforts Noelle and works. If you think about it makes sense. When I dream things that I really don’t want to happen and then wake up I feel so relieved and easy. I think that is the exact same sensation Noelle has. Then, since Noelle was so distressed Susie was more comforting with Noelle, perhaps even hugged her or something, and that could have made an awkward moment between the two. Not a complete confession or something like that but a little bit more than in normal route. I don’t believe they confessed and kissed like a lot of people say because at the end of Snowgrave Susie is still oblivious to Noelle liking her romantically. However, the interaction was closer than in normal route because Susie saw Noelle more distressed and she was more supportive to her. I see Susie throwing her façade easily if she sees something in distress and more if it is Noelle a person she is more positive to. That is my theory though. Susie making the exact same face when Noelle give the chalk to her is also a signal that Susie felt the same thing in the room. But she still doesn’t understand what that is.
A guess to how we could eventually get some insight into what Ralsei is privately talking to Kris about, is that in a future chapter, when Ralsei lures away the SOUL to follow another perspective again, we’ll be able to somehow overhear them without their knowledge. Maybe whatever character we are following will reencounter them in a similar manner to how Frisk overhears Papyrus and Undyne in Undertale. - Or perhaps it could be through a live feed of some kind, which would make sense if a part of Chapter 3’s Dark World is television based. And whether this eavesdropping happens on accident, or through some telepathic coercion from our part, remains to be seen
I think that Noelle was upset/depressed and Susie comforted her, but didn't learn the details of what exactly happened. When you confront Queen right after this, Susie says that "Noelle needs to wake up", indicating that Susie's takeaway was that the Dark World was what was making Noelle so unhappy, at least in some way. Queen also states that Noelle is "in no state to be my Knight" in this scene, supporting the idea that Noelle was in a poor state of mind prior to her interaction with Susie. Susie deciding to go back and check on Noelle while Kris seals to fountain also supports this. While it seems that Noelle was still upset, I don't think she really starts processing what happened until the hospital scene in the Light World. Susie shows no indication that she even suspects that Kris had anything to do with Noelle's condition at any point, and I don't think she's the kind of person who could or would hide something like that for the entire rest of the chapter. After the fountain is sealed, Noelle doesn't seem to be in a bad mood at all. It seems like whatever Susie did was very effective at comforting her. A lot of people have been suggesting that Noelle and Susie kissed or Noelle confessed her feelings, but I don't think that's the case. It definitely seems like the conversation became somewhat romantic, but I don't think it was much more so than the Ferris Wheel scene from the normal route. The main reason is that, at the end of the hospital scene, Susie says that Rudy was telling her about things that are obviously tips for dates with Noelle, but Susie diesn't understand why he's telling her them. That checks out if Susie is still somewhat oblivious to / in denial of the fact that Noelle has a crush on her, but I think Susie would understand what's going on if Noelle outright confessed or kissed her. She's not THAT dumb. I don't think they went further than, like, maybe a hug or some moderate cuddling. Sorry if this is a bit disorganized or rambly, I typed it out on my phone and I can't properly perfect my video comment essays in these conditions.
I don't know enough about the lore of deltarune to agree or disagree with your stance on the matter - but I'm loving the narrative style, scriptwriting, and editing of your videos! Hence, the subscription - looking forward to hearing your thoughts when more content on the game releases. :)
You know what i think... Noelle and susie... did the thing ya know! Not only is susie flustered enough time passed that ralsei sleeps and she specifically doesnt want to tell the innocent ralsei what happend!
The thrasher machine is first made out to be a joke that you don’t think’ll have any importance later on but eventually it’s use blossoms into something semi important to… hatch, one might even say… Would you like an egg?
Ice-E is game corruption, huh? Pretty concerning that it keeps showing up. I mean, glitches can have a lot of effects, but corruption in particular has a nasty tendency to make games... freeze.
I think you're wildly overestimating how "aware" Noelle was about Snowgrave at that point. And wildly overestimating how good Susie is at being sneaky or sly, or restraining her feelings. The most likely course of events is that Susie entered, Noelle may have been distressed but confused, Susie tells Noelle that everything that just happened was a dream which Noelle finds massively comforting and likely derails Noelle from going in any further depth about the events of snowgrave, Noelle may have directly told Susie that she likes her or some other more substantive feelings conversation/ action (reflecting the new assertiveness she may have developed, since this is all a dream in her mind anyways there's no reason not to), Susie rushes out excited and wants to talk to Kris about what happened but doesn't want Ralsei to overhear (perhaps because Ralsei doesn't know Noelle or because she doesn't think Ralsei would give as good romance advice or because she considers Ralsei in a potentially romantic sense as well and now she has choices, pick your poison) and she's only being shifty because no one has ever expressed interest in her in this way before. Susie then later talks to Kris in private in their house, about who they want to take to the fair between Noelle and Ralsei. Whatever conversation Susie had with Noelle in snowgrave could not be significantly different than the conversation she had with Noelle normally because it doesn't change Susie's behavior at all. (A similar point can be made about Kris' actions at the end of the chapter as well, whatever Kris' motivations for opening the fountain, skipping their second conversation with Ralsei by doing snowgrave does not impact it) Susie and Rudy are also talking about Noelle You're absolutely right that Susie would flip out if she was made aware of what happened. Even if you want to give Susie the benefit of the doubt and say that she could be capable of locking in and holding out until they were out of the dark world, the idea that Susie would choose to hang out with Kris or want to sleep overnight with them for some pie is too far. Susie does wait until after the Spamton NEO fight to address what just happened, so clearly she is willing to hold a thought until a danger has passed, but she does address the thought. Susie is terrible at hiding her emotions, if something was bothering her we could tell. She certainly wouldn't be getting cozy on the couch and gossiping about friends with a person she has reason to hate. Susie must be unaware of what happened because that's the only state that makes sense for Susie's behavior. At best, Susie brushed off Noelle's concerns and considers that a success, not realizing that she missed some crucial information by doing so. Noelle is in some kind of delusional trance for the end stage of snowgrave (the effect for the thorn ring is even called 'Trance'), seems to lose control of her body while casting the spell, and then expresses confusion and limps off afterwards. In the light world Noelle regards the experience as a nightmare with a nice ending, and is all too willing to believe or try to rationalize events in the dark world as being just a dream. Berdly being passed out isn't something she regards with complete horror, likely indicating she has vague memories at best of Berdly being frozen. It's likely that the entire segment where she 'gets stronger' is just a blur in her memory, at best she remembers it subconsciously. You can choose to antagonize her and tell her that it wasn't a dream, and prove it by wearing her watch, but that only further highlights the fact that Noelle is suspicious but not aware of what happened. She's aware that Kris is different, not that Kris just manipulated her into murdering Berdly. 'Kris is different' is not the attitude someone holds towards someone they believe is a murderer. Susie is a very interesting candidate for a second playable character though. I'm not so convinced that we would be able to choose to control Susie, but if we wind up in a scenario where Kris completely rejects the soul I wouldn't be surprised if our route back in was Susie finding it and absorbing it, on purpose or on accident.
There's a small detail I think most people miss. I hope you see this so you can look into it. Kris when removing their SOUL is treated as an act of rebellion against us, the Player. Yet, Kris always seemed way to familiar with that to me to be something they JUST started doing. Toriel even commented how Kris sometimes takes a long time in the bathroom. My personal theory is there's a third person in there with us and Kris who is actually the one who rips out the SOUL and pilots the body but there's some information missing. But my point of interest is more how 'Kris' knew how to remove their SOUL, something that they likely wouldn't have learned in like 12 hours after we took control. Any chance you could take a look after the Goat video and see if you find anything related?
Well, there's a little more we know about their interaction. Noelle says that the ending of her "dream" was nice, which hints that to Noelle whatever interaction she had with Susie was more on the positive side. (Maybe something similar to the Suselle Ferris wheel scene except maybe with stronger romantic undertones.) Seeing as Susie told her, "this is just a dream," I think that *_at least_* got her to partially calm her down a bit. Also final thing. Seeing as Noelle asks Susie if she has a tail in the light world, that may suggest that Noelle also noticed Susie's tail similar to the normal route Ferris Wheel scene. But yeah, Susie likely could tell that something was off with Noelle/that something happened which very much distressed her.
I think Susie attempted to offer the ferris wheel ride to Noelle but Noelle was so affected by Kris that she ended up rejecting the offer which made Susie feel really bad and chose to hide her pain and just keep moving forward.
I really like this video, but I disagree with the idea that Susie's smile *has* to mean she's hiding something sinister or negative. You said in replies here that there's no way Noelle would ever kiss Susie after what happened with Berdley. Now, I hadn't really thought about what went down in that room all that much, but I've read what others have theorized and I don't think Noelle kissing Susie is off the table. Here's my idea of how that could happen. Susie goes in, and can tell Noelle is upset. Noelle maybe says something to hint towards what was happening. Maybe about hurting people. Or perhaps she can't talk about it. Something prompts Susie to say to Noelle that this is all a dream. Noelle, desperate to live in denial of what happened, clings to this. Susie tries to make Noelle feel better and suddenly her crush towards Susie comes rushing back to her. But on this route, she grew stronger. More confident. Able to take what she wants, at any cost. Even if she believes, for now, that it is all just a dream. I'm not saying this definitely happened. But Susie's smile was the same one she used when trying to hide the dark world from Noelle in the school. So it makes sense she would use that smile when hiding her kissing Noelle from the party. It's a "woah, did that really just happen??" kind of smile, in this scenario. But! That's not to say I don't like your theory. In fact, I think that's more interesting than them kissing. I just don't agree that it's impossible because Noelle killed Berdley. Noelle is sunk deep into denial. Upon being told none of this is real, that it is all a dream, it's possible that was enough to get her to forget it, pretend it never happened, even if just for a moment. The only thing I'm caught up on is the very end of the Spamton fight, where Kris calls out to the party, but only Noelle appears when called (by the player, presumably). Unless she's full blown dissaociating, I'm not sure how she would go from kissing her crush to doing that. Unless, perhaps, she kissed Susie and then it didn't feel good. Because of how traumatised she is. I just feel like it requires some leaps at this part, whereas your theory does not. So yeah, I like your idea more. Just wanted to provide a little counterargument. If I've missed anything that would weaken this argument though, I don't mind hearing it. I'm neutral on the theory of them kissing in there. I would need to see more evidence in future chapters to fully believe that was what happened.
What a find funny ia that everytime Ralsei says the key word "wonder" and everytime it is done the player looses focus on the Ralsei-Kris conversation, and on your last example Ralsei tries to do it doesnt happen, and she notices it, vecause she keeps asking, so maybe just maybe, she knows about something controlling Kris, whuch could point out to something you said on your past videos as that possession, and maybe Ralsei is trynna understand this phenomena that happens with Kris.
honestly for me that sprite for everythings fine seems kind of like a fearful smile, like shes trying to pretend that she doesnt know what kris did. idk tho. epic theory!
Honestly this video sucks you ignore some very important stuff (the conversation in the library when they wake up) I’m not sure if you are just ignorant or purposefully omitting it to push your narrative.
I don't think Susie was told that Kris and Noelle did a killing spree, mainly cause when Susie is done with "YES and lets go :)" she turns to Kris (in a non-threatening way I feel) to let them know they'll discuss it later And seeing that post the adventure she didn't just throttle Kris in the computer lab (at least in a violent manner lol) and in fact enjoyed a sleep-over... I think she thinks she knows something but not as much as us
I'm sure someone probably has point out this already, but I don't seem to find it anywhere so I just wanted to say: Ice-E = I see. If Gaster is the one who is always listening, Ice-E is the one who is watching you.
10:27 and i get hit with the most random sequence of events lol. Ice e is a corruptted game file ply s war without reason playing in the background... Nice
Adding to the collective tinfoil hat moment, I've been wondering... How would Ralsei react when he finds out what the player has been doing in the wierd route? We can assume that he is going to be one of the least excited with the idea, of course. But we can't know exactly the magnitude of the measures he will take.
I've thought about Susie becoming our new "main protagonist" a lot in the past. I think that if this happens, we won't be able to take complete control of her but we will be sharing control over her body, just like what happens to Asriel and Chara in UNDERTALE's backstory. It would be very interesting to actually experience what that's like.
Honestly, banger theory. It's one of those really niche things that I've heard nobody talk about, but it could totally lead to something. Also, I hate the bit at the end because I can totally see it happening
While I don't think it'll happen, the thought of us gaining control over Susie is terrifying. I feel terrified of the influence i have on the world of Deltarune...
I think of all the characters Suzie will be the one we don't ever get direct control over. I think having to warn enemies about her in chapter 1 is foreshadowing and a role that will be reversed at somepoint with her alerting enemies and making potential weird runs more convoluted and harder. There's a reason the chapter 2 weird route happens when she's not in the party.
I can't help but laugh at you being so suspicious, because i've always read that scene as Noelle using her newfound confidence (and supposed dream state) to give Susie a big ol' smooch and Susie being *ecstatic*
Yes, confidence, that is definitely what Noelle was feeling after she just used Snowgrave to murder her friend Berdley. Which, does have some truth to it based on how she played with Rudy afterwards. But like, her just smooching Susie sounds totally jarring considering everything else that happened in the Route.
@@dantes_integrity I don't agree. In a way, Noelle became more assertive/in control of her life after the events of Snowgrave, which allows her to be more direct about her feelings. It's not jarring or out of place, just a consequence of the route on her psyche. It's best seen in the Library scene after the game, where in pacifist route, Noelle tries to check whether Susie has a tail, but once Susie asks her what she's doing she chickens out. In Snowgrave, she's direct, she just asks Susie whether she has a tail, and is satisfied with the answer. Not to mention, that Snowgrave has a weirdly romantic implications in many scenes leading to this route/route exclusive, so it ending with Noelle kissing Susie would be fitting. Also, I think you're misrepresenting the argument. The point is that Noelle doesn't remember/know she murdered Berdly. She was in trance, but she also seemingly repressed the memory, as she says after casting the spell she doesn't know, that there was a lot of snow and she couldn't see anything. She also doesn't remember freezing the Ring Addison (is it how they're called)?
@@dantes_integrity I think that's part of the entire feeling of snowgrave no? Everything just feels wrong and out of order, by the time you get to queen's castle, it's essentially a creepypasta but real. It also speaks to the theme of our choices not mattering, despite significant changes the broad outline of the chapter is the same. Suzie and Noelle have a nice moment, you go seal the fountain. The prophesy is still in effect just not exactly as everyone (ralsei) thought.
@@dantes_integrity I mean if it's all a dream, then berdly is fine right? Maybe she killed her because she was happy to hear it was all a dream or maybe she kissed her because if it's a dream, why not just do what you don't dare in real life?
My guess is since Noelle is aware of dreamer's control over a dream as seen in ferris wheel conversation, she "realizes" that everything before "is a dream" and therefore is untrue, but now that she knows that "it's a dream" she has now full control. And while regular Noelle would be bashful at that situation. Noelle has just realized that after all of that, she has full control over the situation while being in trance, more confident than before and... alone with Susie. I actually think that Noelle just became extremely horny (pun intended) in there. Maybe they even banged (lol). That would explain why Susie isn't terrified at all and why she hides what happens from someone as innocent as Ralsei, but since her and Kris are bro's she'd tell them about these horny af hoes. I know you expected something more grim, but with Susie's reaction, this is more on point, I think. It would also allow Toby to keep Susie oblivious of the situation through the future chapters as well as adding another mature theme to a route already with topics such as manipulation, gaslighting and straight up murder.
I got a short question and a long, rambling diatribe. Short Question: Yo... How does Ralsei separate the SOUL from Kris? Long, Rambling Diatribe: Ralsei's ability to push us away scares me. The player takes the control of the SOUL, which takes control over Kris. The Soul is similar to the one from Undertale, yet more powerful, and also... Able to act independent of us( IT, not the player nor Kris nor the enemy decides to go Yellow mode). This means within Kris, there is the soul, who Kris is commanded by, and within the soul is the player , who the soul is commanded by. Each one of these three have their own motivations and goals, and will work with/against each other to achieve their individual goals. Without the SOUL, Kris can barely function but regains their autonomy. Without a body, the SOUL is powerless, yet Kris needs it to properly function. And without the player to control the SOUL, neither it nor Kris could function at all outside of moments of extreme exertion. Then Ralsei decides to use the power of imagination to push us away from Kris and they're... Fine. Kris isn't barely hanging on or struggling to move, they are okay. This... Breaks the rules. Combine this with Tea Theory(Kris doesn't like Ralsei Tea), Kris's constant push back against us, and... All of the baggage Ralsei carries(I AM NOT LETTING HIM INTO MY HEART JUST FOR HIM TO BE FLOWEY)... I gotta ask... Did Kris ever have a soul of their own? Before we took over? Did it go into the Goner, or did it go somewhere else? How does Ralsei separate the soul from Kris? Is it a DETERMINATION thing? Is... Hold up having a brain blast. Red horns, green crayon, looks like Asriel, knows magic... Is, um... Is Ralsei Kris's.... Is Ralsei Kris's first soul?
I do think that they try to fight, but just aren’t strong enough. for example, I’m sure Kris didn’t want to kill berdly, regardless of how annoying he is, but they just wernt strong enough to stop us. susie might be, though.
