Honestly I agree, I still would love to train in Catch wrestling I love the historical parts of it there's only BJJ and CSW (which tbf is submission wrestling with some base in catch) unfortunately. BJJ and things more geared to being flashy or that do well in things like MMA is pretty much what will just always dominate these days. I wonder if eventually the same will happen to BJJ as more and more people call it just grappling but I doubt it since BJJ has had a much better marketing push for it honestly.
So chokes are typically not allowed in Catch Wrestling matches? It seems like that might prevent some from the BJJ and MMA community crossing over, if that's the case.
You argue reasonably and I agree with your view , but you don't prove that 'Grappling works for self defence' and you don't show any techniques, so I'd respectfully suggest that a more accurate title would be: 'Why it's important to know some grappling techniques.'
So Bill Richmond is not the 1st black champion. Wow. Outdated this man by a hundred or so years. Changed boxing and made it what it is today, boxed into his 50s and frequently had to fight men much bigger. But I guess because there was standardised fighting league. Lol. 1st black champ my arse. Big up Bill Richmond.
I trained karate for seven years and got to brown belt. I transitioned into boxing and it humbled me quickly. However I don’t regret training karate and it still has given me skills I still use
"in reality you're allowed to do whatever you need to do in order to protect yourself" That's not what the law says, being disproportionate may be necessary as if you take a kitchen knife before he can grab it and he then tries to take the knife from you, if you only match his force he will eventually get the knife from you then you won't be able to stop him from stabbing you. Yet the law explicitly and arbitrarily rules out disproportionate force. "chasing after a gunman is unreasonable" How is it reasonable to allow him to retreat out of your reach so they can shoot you from a distance? Anger is not mutually exclusive with reason, anger is a human instinct specifically for this situation, anger is not some bug in the human code, it's not something that needs to be edited out of the human genome. Without this humans would have gone extinct. What's the point in getting training if the very training to increase your capability then legally limits your options? So I can only have a means to defend myself if it's coincidentally to hand? Obviously a criminal who intends to do harm will have the advantage, even if they just root around for a rock or a stick they'll have the advantage. Grabbing something as you're attacked is just inviting a stupid mistake like trying to use something utterly ineffective, like throwing cold tea on them while they jam a spike into your neck.
My problem is most European martial artists don't want to consider how most eastern martial arts survived. Yes there were training manuals, but only a few instructors in a school would be allowed to actually read them. Everything else was manual instruction and practical practices. So most students didn't learn the history of pure forms but learned the school. In the west you don't find schools that do that for hema( but you sure do for things like BJJ) most karate masters today have never read an ancient manuscript( maybe some would be more effective in everyday practice if they did) but have learned a school.
im a grappler. i practice both regularly. there's a lot of great techniques in both camps. and some flaws. for jujitsu i ditched the gi years ago. the guard technique is essential. however it rewards stalling and gives the illusion your safer on your back then you actually are. especially in a street fight with multiple opponents. also jujitsu neglects take downs. catch wrestling over values a pinning. by doing so neglects alot of aspects from the back. the thing catch is missing is a better competition system especially at an amateur level. ive thought about doing a hybrid style. 3 rounds scored 10 point system similar to boxing. socre is bssed on control. a 20 second pin automatically wins/ ends the round. that gives the bottom opponent the opportunity to use guard game but also initiates progress. a submission ends the match. have 2 jugdes score the match if. and the ref decides in the event of a draw. 🤷
In my short yet ongoing experience with HEMA and other martial arts I will say this: Everyone does martial arts and or combat sports for different reasons and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people are more open minded and honest than others when comparing, contacting, and practicing their respective styles. Personally, I practice HEMA because it's fun, I find the history side of it fascinating, and I enjoy the sport side of it. I also love kickboxing and MMA for vastly different reasons. I also love many traditional martial arts, too. In my experience the people I've trained with have been open-minded and far from elitist in HEMA. I do generally agree with your points made. Online discussion can get tribalistic in various martial arts communities. One question that does come to mind is: Is HEMA generally approached as a "process based" or "objective based" martial art? Armchair Violence did a solid video some time back on how a martial art can be one or the other and in my experience I'm still wondering myself exactly where HEMA falls given its spread out community of people and their reasons for approaching it.
Nah, HEMA is respectable just like all martial arts wether they are of Asian, European origin. But I have to admit that studying HEMA is way too expensive.
Wow what a great way to share this very important history. I truly appreciate this so much, given that boxing has always been my absolute favorite as far back as I can remember even as a little boy I started training in boxing at 7! Great story telling too but I tell you what, I'd sure like to show this to the kids here especially the black youth here in America. It's sad to say but a lot of these kids don't know their history about their ancestors and I think that is very important because it really is. I'm not trying to be funny or anything like that but it's sad to me. These kids really think their people aren't from Africa at all but believe they're the real Native American tribes, I'm guessing they think the transatlantic slave trade is a lie or something.
I see the treatises as a place to start, a knowledge base to learn, drill and master before molding what you know into what works best for you. My Escrima sifu said the same thing as Pablo Picasso, that you must know the rules like a master, so that you can break them like an artist. No martial art should be wholly prescriptive in nature, that's how you stagnate and lose sight of the original purpose of the art.
I think if you look at history then you find it to be the other way around. However, the two are starting to mix. A lot of the submissions were taking from Catch.
I know nothing about HEMA. Surely the research nerds and the fighters aren't necessarily the same kind but aren't there modern books or videos about HEMA so one doesn't need to dive too much into research?
Absolutely spot on. Karate kata is grappling. Karate basics are both striking skills and grappling skills. It isn't the self defence situations like we see in American kenpo, or the bubishi. There are four main entry's to start the applications of any karate kata. Wrist escape, punch defence, striking a gaurd or grabbing/ being grabbed inside the elbows. If we just use them we can just go throu the moves of kata and see if they make some sense. Kata sometimes is built in a funny way. Being how they are constructed means that we might need to re structure some of the moves to put them in the right place to find the application.
Uk laws are crazy, you stand absolutely no chance of surviving a knife attack that any criminal can grab out of the kitchen. Even black belts and people that have specifically trained to defend against a knife do not manage to defend themselves against it. Therefore the uk law is unrealistic. Pepperspray which is effective and not permanently damaging the attacker, is perfect for self defense because a knife wielding attacker or a man that wants to rape a woman is neutralized as a threat well within proportionality. If then people start complaining that the attacker could get a heart attack then don't be a criminial who chose to attack and therefore has the full responsibility of causing harm even as a response from the victim who tries to not die or get raped.
I’m confused how are you meant to ( oh wait a minute intruder I’ve got to think before you use an item ) in these situations you don’t think you just do anything to protect yourself and your family .
Just found this video after watching Barnett vs Livesey. It's worth noting that Owen Livesey just competed in CJI and did well (in fact, I only know of him because of that event). This sparked my interest in Catch, which I've no experience in. Why? Because in all of NYC there's not a single place that teaches Catch wrestling. BJJ isn't highly represented here but there are enough places to train if you want it, so that's what I ended up going with. That said, I think there's a lot of learn from both and I do agree with some of the other comments here about how no gi (bjj) is incorporating more and more aspects of wrestling, judo, and catch in general. I also agree that the Gracie dominance--and Brazil in generally supplying the best fighters--is perhaps coming to an end. Thanks for the thoughts! Subscribed!
I can count on one hand the number of months I've been doing HEMA, but this exact debate is pretty much a mirror of one going on with people I know who work in tech. And given people get paid for doing IT work even though it can also be a hobby, it's probably a better comparison to the attitudes in historical texts! Viewpoint A - who are typically the older generation (who are incredibly skilled) "Everyone should do basic electrical theory, electronics, then serial comms, then basic packet switched connections, Ethernet IP etc [for example]. Everything gets built on top of those foundations and you need to understand why things behave the way they do at a higher level, and that's all informed by these basics. Viewpoint B - "We cannot afford, in time or money, to send people for five years' training in that stuff, and they are just going to lost interest if we try. Also, yes there are some transferrable skills, but you really don't need all that to manage a software defined network in a VM cluster." Yes, the gold-plated approach would be to do wrestling as a foundation and expand outward. However, an engineering truism is worth repeating: "The last 10% takes 90% of the effort" In this context, to me that means that if you're happy being at 90% of your potential, then you can achieve that relatively easily, and wrestling as a foundation probably isn't that valuable. Finally: time, resources, interest and ***desired outcome*** all vary wildly between people. I for one just want to do something fun so I can trick myself into doing *some* exercise.
I would love to see a joint video with my faves UK mid-level RU-vidrs: English Martial Arts, Tommy Moore, and That Gear Guy. Hidden gems that need more views.
Yeah here in the USA, negative news and content reigns rather than positive media, your channel gives me knowledge of how combat sports started in the uk, especially boxing
Your right. I’ve looked at HEMA as a history nerds pastime. Nothing wrong with that. But the people who used these weapons to kill in history-weren’t the nerds of society. They were the equivalent to elite athletes of today. Listen I played hockey since age five. Two games a week two practices-strength and conditioning, off ice agility, skills programmes. It was my entire childhood and teens. Traditional fighting with weapons was this intensive and more- life and death were at stake. And when life is not at stake, it’s just a pastime. I’m not saying that one cannot get really good with a sword, indeed, practicing and learning is how you’d do that. But don’t think this would necessarily translate into a hypothetical real scenario. Because more comes into play. Much more.
I want to get in to into dagger combat and I'm talking about larger daggers or poignard. I can't find any place that does that. Also I can barely find sparring with two larger daggers. Its always smaller knifes or a dagger against a sword. Yet I learn that dagger fighting was the first thing young men would learn before swords. As an outsider and having done outher martial arts I get the feeling that HEMA has a lot of nerds that are too strict with their rules and fantasies. The only classes near me are longsword classes. I'm not saying there is something wrong with that but it shows me that hema caters more to fantasy romantization rather than something practical. I also get the feeling they treat manuscripts like absolutes and if you stray away from known techniques it gets punished in their "rules". There are no rules in death. You die, you die. A lot of this is based on assumptions I got from watching videos on it and i can be conpletely wrong. Yet i feel that two people training with sticks since their childhood could do way more then most HEMA practitioners.
He was the best of many to so many a friend a father figure a coach also a legend that so many had the opportunity to absorb his knowledge and techniques to pass and to keep his wrestling style that he loved so much to him it wasn't just wrestling it was Catchwrestling that he loved with a passion .Appreciate the video great memories.
There is totally nothing NOBLE about boxing. It is aggression in competitive form of who can knock the hell our of the other. (That is not sport)..... Queensbury didn't lay down the rules he was only a patron of the Welshman that did, although due to his egotistical nature took the credit. Queensbury was a total tyrant womaniser and hounded anyone that didn't fit into his much macho narrow minded world. He even had open affairs with women in front of his wife. His own son Lord Alfred Douglas was used as a weapon against the genius and philosopher Oscar Wilde in a contrived court case that put that genius behind bars for two miserable years with hard labour,. Nothing what so ever NOBLE about Queensbury.
Good to see you back, and to hear a bit about what's been going on on your end. Though I'm a much smaller channel, I'm having a similar problem in that I primarily want to get out information (mostly in the form of book reviews and excerpts), but this is a very niche subject and doesn't really further my desire to make enough money to only work part-time. On the subject of reviews, thanks to you talking about de Relwyskow, I was able to get a reprint of his book on wrestling and have been able to review it. I enjoy your content, and I hope you find time to make more, without any sort of financial pressure. Best of luck to you.
