Wow this was amazing. This opened up my eyes in ways to be more effective in outreach and how to best witness to someone. Thank you so much. Also if still a one spirit book would love that if possible.
What would you say to people who were negatively affected by taking the Pfizer drug? Also on congregations of believers affected by lockdowns? Is this channel willing to obey God over government? Thank you.
"How should we respond to a culture that is increasingly hostile towards the church?" Stop the culture of hostility towards people who are not part of the church by the members of the congregations themselves. Tolerance and acceptance of those who are not in the flock would encourage them to listen & digest the message the church has.
We have THREE books to give away to THREE lucky people. Drop us a comment and we will send ONE book to the first three people who comment. Books to give away are: The Elephant in the Room, Because We Care and In One Spirit by Dave Mann.
These two podcast, on whāngai and the pākehā journey have been fantastic! Such helpful and challenging conversations. Well interviewed. Keep them coming!
With all due respect, as you both seem genuine and kind-hearted, I think it is wrong to use spiritual manipulation to pressure people to take this vaccine. The mainstream message is simply that the V is "safe and effective". However, official reports on the NZ Medsafe website clearly state that there have been an extremely high number of serious negative effects to this V. My Dad is a Pastor and he sent this to me. I was saddened by it as I believe we have a right to share the whole truth with our neighbour and encourage them to make the decision that is best for their circumstance. You both shared a very one-sided argument in this podcast. If someone listen to this and then goes and gets the V and then subsequently has a serious reaction, such as blood clots, heart issues, or one of the many other adverse effects, there is noone that is being held accountable. The pharma industry is indemnified so they aren't held accountable and people like yourselves will carry on living your life unaware of how someone else's life has been impacted greatly. We need to preach love, but also inform people that there are risks to both sides of this decision. Covid is serious, yes, but there are still risks to have a V that does not have a long-term history to observe and already has many negative reports around the world. God bless you both, but I pray that you will both feel a conviction to not use spiritual manipulation to pressure everyone in this way.
Mentioning the Pope and what he says on this issue in this context does not contribute in a helpful way to the discussion. If you wish to know more please tell write to me in a private message
Thanks so much for this, appreciated it so much!! Such a privilege to learn from people who obviously have put heaps into learning and preparing this discussion.
Thank you for the most one-sided condescending theologically inaccurate load of false information I've heard so far. You are basically telling all the christians what to think instead of giving all sides a fair chance to be heard, weighed up and understood. Poor guy is young, naive and still believes that everyone in the world of science just wants to help people, bless him. I can tell he loves his work and genuinely believes in what he is saying. It doesn't take much digging to discover the atrocious corruption and cover ups within the pharmaceutical industry. This discussion was so bad I couldn't actually watch it all but here were some notes I took as I watched. 1. There is no "one science”. There are plenty of reputable scientists and doctors with much more experience than this guy who are absolutely against this vaccine. They are the ones seeing the effects on their patients. There is absolute legitmacy to anyone who is concerned about this vaccine and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories but everything to do with real life people dying from it or experiencing serious adverse effects. The responsible thing to do would have been to have two people with differing views on this to debate and then give people a chance to weigh the decision up for themselves. But to mislead people into thinking the vaccine is completely safe means you must be ok to potentially have blood on your hands. 2. how is it that you can be promoting a vaccine as safe when it’s still in its trial phase? 3. It actually does alter DNA. 4. How can you say that it doesn’t affect fertility when there have been no long term data recorded yet? We wouldn’t know that for a long time. And there have been many miscarriages already reported. 5. There actually were pregnant women that they gave the vaccine to. It’s still in its trial phase until end of 2022! 6. It is an abomination to God to write off and justify the fact that even one aborted fetel cell was used to create this. Yes you mention that it came from one single aborted fetus cell line from years back but what you don't mention is that 293 babies were aborted to find that stem cell line!!!! In New Zealand the Pfizer vaccine is used and in it is HEK-293 is the aborted fetel cell line. The number represents how many babies were aborted to find that cell line. I’m sorry, God does NOT use babies who have been ruthlessly ripped apart and killed in order to “redeem the world”. It is a wicked compromise to water this down all in the name of saving people from a virus that has a 99.9% chance of survival. 7. As christians I didn't realise we look to the catholic church for our moral cues. I thought we took our moral cues from God and God alone. Yet here you are pointing us to a statement that the Catholic church made regarding their stance on vaccines as if that makes it all ok. The catholic church is not who we follow and worship. Will we stand before the pope on judgement day? No. We will stand before the Almighty God. We look to Him and His word alone for our moral standards and we do not compromise no matter what. 8. Don’t cheapen communion by comparing it to a vaccine!!! 9. We have had 26 deaths here in NZ, all over the age of 50 and most of those had 2-3 co-morbidities. Lets not forget that because we need a little perspective on all this. 10. This was the most woke theologically inaccurate video where you’re trying to merge Christianity into this issue and it's not working. There were so many parts, too many to keep highlighting that were completely false and inaccurate. 11. To claim that those who don’t get vaccinated aren’t loving their neighbours as much is absolutely wrong. Since when do we as the church allow the world's definition of what "love" looks like to be our guide? It is a theologically thin works-based christianity that you are describing. How dare you use manipulation and coercion in the name of God to tell people what to do. God by nature does not coerce.
Hi Olivia, I am sorry if I came across as condescending, I genuinely didn't want to do that. I believe that God gives each of us work to do and a responsibility to do our jobs truthfully and well but that does not make people doing science better than anyone else. I'll do my best to respond to the points that I can answer. 1. I agree that this is about people who are dying and we both want that to stop. I also accept your genuine concerns about vaccine safety. The challenge with having a discussion between someone who agrees with vaccination and someone who doesn't is that it gives the false impression that the two points of view are held by equal numbers of people who are trained in science. However, the vast majority of Christians who are in the sciences agree with vaccination. I would recommend a talk from Francis Collins to hear a different perspective: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k2h3VEoL0d8.html 2. All vaccines have been tested and approved before being used on people. The talk I've recommended above also discusses how all of the trials were done. The reason these vaccines were so quickly available is because many steps were done in parallel which sped up the vaccine development. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k2h3VEoL0d8.html 3. Neither the virus nor the vaccine alters your DNA. COVID-19 is an RNA virus and replicates in the endoplasmic reticulum and golgi apparatus and therefore does not modify the sequence of your DNA, which is contained within the nucleus of the cell. The vaccine works in a similar way to the virus, although it only replicates the spike protein which helps the body to build antibodies that protect against the actual virus, should it be encountered. www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02039-y 4/5. Miscarriages occur at a given rate in all pregnancies; the question is whether there has been any increase caused by the vaccine. Multiple studies show no impact to date: www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2104983?articleTools=true 6. I did not intend to "write off" anyone and this is indeed a deeply concerning issue. However, the vaccines in NZ were not made with any of these stem cells. There are no stem cells in any vaccine. For the Pfizer vaccine, they tested its toxicity by adding it to a fetal stem cell line from the 1960s (not newly obtained fetal cells) in a similar manner to how a drug is given to an animal to test if it is toxic. Many drugs are tested in this way and this testing, in general, does have ethical concerns but it is not unique to Covid vaccines. 7. I agree that God provides our moral compass. We have both appealed to our own moral compasses as we both want people to stop dying. Regardless of how we feel about the Pope and Catholicism, the Pope was appealing for us to love our neighbour as ourself which is what Jesus calls all Christians to do. 8. Communion is very important to me as well, I did not mean to cheapen it. 9. I rely on your argument in point 6 and say that even 26 deaths are too many. 11. I suppose this is where we differ. I believe that being vaccinated is a simple way of showing love to others and saving lives, which we both agree is important. The vaccines have been developed by scientists, many of whom are Christians. So loving your neighbour depends on where you stand on this and the responsibility for telling the truth rests on both of our consciences. I do not want to force people to get the vaccination. I simply want people to know enough about the vaccine and virus, from reliable sources, to make an informed choice. Thanks for taking the time to share your concerns.
@@jacobmartin1010 Thank you for taking the time to reply. I can tell you are genuine in your approach. I will not address most of your responses as it is clear that we simply disagree on many things. My main point that I want to highlight is this false emphasis on there being "one science" that we should all adhere to. Just because there is a majority consensus on something does not mean it is right. We know this from many examples in history. Slavery for example. We could take this discussion even further back in terms of the validity of vaccines in the first place but we would have to talk about people such as Pasteur who was behind Germ Theory (which is how we justify vaccines working) as well as a man named Antione Bechamp who proposed an alternative theory called Terrain Theory. Much of how western medicine has been developed is due to embracing Pasteur's theory and rejecting Bechamp's. I believe Terrain Theory to be much more in line with God's design. For society (and even the church) to get to a place where we can justify aborted fetuses being used in the name of science and "alleviating the suffering of others" does not sound like God's original design. It is highly irresponsible to recommend a vaccine without addressing the very real risks and concerns. What's worse is you use your christianity to imply that those who take the vaccine are doing a better job at loving their neighbour. This is a gross manipulation of the scriptures. What this tells me is that you are seeing God through your lense of science instead of seeing science through your lense of God. As christians we don't tag God on everything we do and justify it. It is a slippery slope when you start to justify anything linked to abortion and then allude to God being for it. How has the church become so diluted and lukewarm that we are able to justify something that is an abomination to Him which therefore should be an abomination to us. I get that we can have a different ethical position on this based on the fact that the aborted fetus was one used many years ago, but it still does not make it ok to push this vaccine in the name of loving others well. You have no right to do that. You can state your view and not be so condescending towards others who have a different view. I will leave you with a few names (of which there are many) of prominent doctors who have some views worth considering since you are clearly concerned about people dying. Mike Yeadon (ex-pfizer scientist), Dr Roger Hodkinson and Dr Peter McCullough are a few. Duckduckgo is a much more reliable and unbiased search engine since Google is no longer trustworthy. I will leave you with this statistic: so far there are 3,005 recorded deaths in VAERS following the Covid-19 vaccine which is more than the total vaccine deaths in the past 13 plus years. Another website that you might find helpful is nzdsos.com.This was created by a body of NZ medical professionals who were extremely concerned with what's going on in NZ to do with the vaccine.
Hi Alana, thanks so much for listening. Thats so cool that you are tuning in all the way from Ireland. You are out prize pack winner and we would love to send you a gift bag. Could you send us an email at morethantheology@gmail.com and we can get it organised for you ... may take a while to post ;)
