100% agree on that strategy games need these sorts of strategies. People get so stuck on metas that they refuse to try and experiment to try and find something that might be better or will beat the meta. I would be very sad if the devs decide to kill these strats for no reason other people are frustrated and refuse to learn to play against something.
Amazing video as always! I have a very fun anecdote! In spanish speaking community I casted hoang since he did a full all-in Drush with huns and then CA castling at min 22. And since he was 1800 I've been covering a game of him at least twice a month (since like 2012). This guy is so well known in spanish speaking community that he himself chose to call himself "juan" which is what our people call Hoang since that's how it sounds like. He is a lovely guy and till this day one my favourite players. Red phoshporu is top player, absolutely love him aswell <3
Aoe2 players discovering that timing pushes exist has been very fun to watch. Jk, aoe2 is a fuckin hard game to optimise. The timings will probably never get as tight as StarCraft.
Im deeply anoyed by these cheese all in strategys. I have to admit that the idea behind took a lot of creativity. But since it once got established there is no creativity involved in executing these all ins which are so difficult to counter. I consider that abusing the over powered units which should have been nerfed a long time ago.
Although I don’t play AoE2 I love the content you put here, I think the community should be very happy to have you covering these topics! Enjoyed the vid a lot!
The strategies themselves are really cool. The big problem is how much easier they are to pull off than to counter. If they were just as highly effective but also took an appropriately high level of skill to pull off, they would be fine -- good for the game, even. IDK how that could be solved, though...
People have no idea the amount of street credit Red Phosphoru has on the 1000-17000 elo range. Everyone is either doing his strats, playing against them or talking about them on a regular basis
whereas AoK hasnt been changed often enough, AOEII since DE is in my opinion being changed way to much. exibit A: celts nerv because of one player who did find a successful strat with a very mediocre civ. that is just stupid from microsoft, takes aways variety even thoug its a one trick pony strat. its not OP if 1-5 players in the world use ist plus its so hard to execute perfectly.
Fun fact, in tornaments phosphorus and youpudding has potential, for example Lierrey lose against a freakin andy with Portuguese, and barles win against dogao with youpudding in "S" tier tournaments And many more examples
As someone who just started playing aoe2 competitively recently: How were the celts nerfed? When I look into the patch logs, I only see buffs like woad raider more hitpoints and attack, ring archer armor added and stronghold buffed? The only thing I see is that the infantry speed bonus no longer applies in dark age, which takes away the bonus for a drush as celts, but hoang was not performing drush? Or was drush a crucial part of the all-in with hoang with rams? Would like to get an answer to this as it confuses me. On the topic itself as a game dev and having played many other RTS competitively: It's absolutely not a problem if such strategies emerge. It enriches gameplay and diversity of games and it is very interesting to see what happens when 2 of those strategies bump into each other like fc rathas vs. fc war wagons and so on. Does one UU emerge as the best of all those in a meta, where everyone is doing ths stuff? In such a case, something must be done. Or does it change the game to no longer anyone wins with this as 2 such UU strats bump into each other usually and then both have to start getting 2nd TC and then 3rd also makes sense and the game just has a new default opening which includes UUs and not only scout/archer. Of course it must be balanced, but that does not mean it will be nerfed out of the meta. It can be balanced so that FC into UU is just another opening that works with like 10-20% of the civs. In such a meta players just have to accept that they need to get a defensive castle up fast so they will no longer be overrun by rathas etc.
Great strategies are superb. NEW, great strategies are innovative and difficult and can take the AoE2 world to another level! 😄😄 Remember, AoE2 is 25 years old... 🤣 Thanks for another excellent video, Tiramis. 👍 G'day from Australia! M 🦘🏏😎
9:32 the main issue with those all-in strategies is that very often the game become a coin toss, especially at higher levels. Pro players also innovates pretty much all the time but aiming for more consistent strategies, which may be less exciting to watch and are more difficult to replicate.
Phosphoru is an innovator but he cant move beyond 2200 with his strats. Having a few allins in your arsenal is fine but he has nothing else. You need to be able to play a normal game too if you want to progress. He catches people a few times and then they figure him out and his cheese no longer works. Standard play is harder to pull off but its not capped like that.
Just wanna point out, in the beginning you say these cheese strats that cut villager production don't work against pros... Which is not necessarily true. Sure, pros are going to be much better equipped to deal with these strats but even someone like Hera can lose the odd game to Hoang from time to time
The main problem with phosphorus strategies are they are just way too simple and easy to do. It’s basically game breaking. Someone spends months learning meta and trying to get good and 2k+ players are dying to this. Even phosphorus said that he could not get that high with hoang strategy. That is what makes hoang unique. It actually had a super high skill ceiling with the strategy. These strategies are too easy and strong. If that is how the devs want the future of aoe and the ladder to be then so be it. It feels like age has become so much more stupid than the old strategy game I loved and played for years.
yeah exactly. Those Tiramis's words are lil bit weird at the end where he says he likes off meta strats. Daut does off meta strats in tournaments with m@a rushes and stuff. This red phosphoru bs where you cant even counter is not a off meta strat, but OP one. Like I played vs same guy twice, first time i lost fine, second guy i knew exactly what he is doing with bengalis, i had tons of skirms to counter rathas, but pathing screws you a bit and if ratha gets on top of skirms they like 3shot them. Is just dumb. Usually aoe2 is and always been about balance and if you go full in you are on huge timer, but when you spam castle age unit non stop vs feudal or early castle age there is nothing balanced about it. And I would actually liked a bit more coverage, where F1re lost to Viper's korean fc phosphoru thing. Like it does work even at super top level, because those units do not have a counter early on
