Haytham actually makes a pretty good point here. Our founding fathers were loaded. At the end of the day, The Revolution primarily benefited those in power, sure it trickled down a bit, but of all this talk of liberalism and freedom from kings, how many founding fathers children held power for generations? John Adam’s kid became president, The Jeffersons held on to power till the Civil War. Washington was related to Robert E Lee.
The only time the Templars being right was handled well from a writing standpoint In AC1 it was stupid. In Rogue it solely existed just to sell copies of the last gen DLC like game and it was a mess that made every character including Shay into a immoral coward where every word is in complete conflict with each other, what could have been a cool concept if done on purpose expect it was done by accident
Connor: Tell me something Haytham: Hmmm? Connor: You could've killed me when we first met - What you stayed your hand? Haytham: Curiosity. Any other questions? Connor: What is the templars truly seek? Haytham: Order. Purpose. Direction. No more than that. It's your lot that means to confound with this nonsense talk of freedom. Time was, the Assassins professed a for more sensible goal, that of peace. Connor: Freedom IS peace. Haytham: Oh, no. It's an invitation to chaos. Only look at this little revolution your friends have started. I have stood before the Continental Congress and listened to them stamp and shout. All in name of liberty. But it is just noise. Connor: And this is why you favor Lee? Haytham: He understands the needs of this would-be nation far better than the jobbernowls who profess do represent it. Connor: It seems your tongue has tasted your grapes. The people have made their choice - And it was Washington. Haytham: The people chose nothing. It was done by a group of privileged cowards seeking only to enrich themselves. They convened in private and made a decision that would benefit THEM. Oh, they might have dressed it up with pretty words, but that does not make it true. The only difference Connor - The ONLY difference beetwen myself and those you aid - is that i do not feign affection.
There is a degree of truth, but he is actually doing the very thing he criticizes the continental congress of - dressing things up in pretty words. He says freedom is an invitation to chaos, but then lacks the insight to recognize that control is an invitation to tyranny. Just take a look at the templars from...well..Basically any time period. They are constantly seeking to control the masses, essentially enslaving humanity. Even in the modern day their goal was to launch a satellite carrying a piece of eden to enslave the world. Haythem may have a point, but his point is deeply flawed.
how far this franchise has fallen from grace. now we have settings that want to feel grounded and real but developers/management which desperately want to add minotaurs, medusas, nordic fantasy lands, and ESPECIALLY fancy glowing microtransaction equipment. I remember a quote from a ubisoft executive which basically said "we're not doing a samurai/ninja assassin's creed unless the franchise is desperate and on it's last legs" pretty much sums up the latest AC reveal
"The people chose nothing. It was done by a group of privileged cowards seeking only to enrich themselves." - A Privileged Coward Seeking Only to Enrich Himself
To be honest, I agree with the his point of view. Not only because it seems more just unlike (Quoting haytham) ,,... That nonsense talk of freedom". Im not saying their actions are justified (excluding haytham, because he actually tried to make america a better place to live, same with Shay.) But if we take those philosophies and try to connect them, it won't work as those are not in harmony. Just look at modern france today. Strikes, protests, vandalism all over again. Its vive la revolution all over again. That is the cost of freedom of choice and speech. Sure, let them have it, but controlled to a certain amount. If they want to protest, let it be so. But instead of ignoring people, listen to them, and accept more profound ideas of their thinking, not because of your personal gain, but, actually to make their lives better. Do not mess with their private life, unless it poses a threat to you. Let them live like they want. Do not use them for your personal gain; rather help them overcome their problems and use their advantages to make the life of your own people better.
“The only difference Connor, the ONLY difference between myself and those you aid is I do not feign affection!” I love how open to interpretation this is On one hand this could be read as “the people you aid don’t care, atleast I outwardly tell you I don’t care! Or “the people you aid don’t care, where I ACTUALLY do!” From the perspective of the Connor it’s the first, from the perspective of Haytham it’s the second. Connor is stoic and traumatized yet young and optimistic, haytham is cold and calculating and also traumatized yet still has a sense of greater good and love for his son.
Haytham was the only templar I truly respected.His ideals are entirely understandable. But templar method for achieving total control is very bad.The end doesnt justify the means.He instigated that ruckus(I forgot the name of the incident) in which charles lee shot in the air and then the soldiers shot everyone presented there.Those machinations are utterly merciless.
Haytham is the better character. Such a shame Connor didn’t stay on his side and didn’t spare him. Maybe the world in AC wouldn’t be such a mess in the present world. Haytham was one of the few templars who saw the real truth of the world and wanted to make it peaceful and free. Deep down he was a true saint and a true hero
As a young teen I thought the assassin's were the 'good guys' at least in the first. But haytham shattered that view when he calls out what the brotherhood became. He had said that the templar want order and I believe him, control through order whilst using brutal exacting actions to maintain it. Is why no matter how many templar the assassins kill they can't ever be fully defeated, hence why there are still so many AC games still being released (other than continuing sales)
This has got to be one of my favorite scenes of the whole franchise it really makes me think and side with both factions despite their differences they both want the same thing peace and justice
People saying they're switching to Templar side and hating Assassins are cringey. You don't really get what "Nothing is true everything is permitted" Means. Templars are seeking peace by using control. What's good with that? Though I'd say Assassins way of peace is too ambitious and near impossible to happen but it's right.
Haytham is absolutely right here. While most templars come across as power hungry tyrants, haytham as a grand master wants order and purpose and mocked the assassins trying to ruin that by fighting for freedom. He tried and in a way almost swayed connor a couple times to convince him he was right. Could you imagine if this was the point where assassins and templars made peace?
Kon razon estaba enojado con su hijo pero su hijo estaba enojado por qur no defendio a ziio :/ sss que mal!! Quien tenia la razon! Quisa cuando murio dijo debi haberte defendia hace mucho tiempo o debi haberte entendido! Y fallecio hheitahm kenwei
0:19 I love the turn around from Haytham, right before that he was still being somewhat distant and dickish to Connor. However when Connor asks him more about the templars his tone shifts and his demeanor changes, he was thinking “if there was a chance to change his mind, it’s now”. It really sold me on him truly wanting to change Connor’s perspective and be a family
0:12 I like how Connor looks down at his feet like a kid asking their parents a question that might get them in trouble. But it's makes sense considering he's with his father and he naturally be curious about him but at the same time knows that they are on opposite sides and Haytham can kill him in a blink of an eye
The thing is that Haytham is equally as naive as Connor. He doesn't seem to realize that anyone who wants power as a Templar will never rule fairly or use their power for good.
Argument between a conservative and a liberal. Well done. Both have valid points and both want the same thing but through different means. Conor learned alot about his father in this scene. A great speech given by Haytham that applies to this very day. Well done and very well written.
The point of Haytham was that he was very good at sophistry, able to spin whatever situation was at hand to his own rhetorical advantage. People get that, right? Connor absolutely has his number when he says that for all his fancy talk, he’s just upset that the man he thinks he can control (Lee) wasn’t able to secure power. Like, the entire point of his character is that he has zero genuine convictions. The closest thing he has to a guiding principle for his life’s work of endless power grabbing is wanting to prevent war, and by that measure he’s a total failure. Connor isn’t classically educated, so he can’t eloquently refute Haytham in an argument. His actions talk for him, though: Haytham’s Templar order wiped out the Brotherhood in the colonies, then spent the ensuing years failing to consolidate more concrete political power or genuinely help anyone. Connor’s rebuilt new world Assassins goes on to become a massively successful force for liberation throughout America once it becomes clear the states are too reluctant to give up slavery. For all that Haytham pretends to be someone able to see through the Assassin/Templar conflict, he regularly chooses loyalty to the Templars over any genuine principles, while Connor’s work after the revolution to free slaves in direct opposition to the country he helped found shows far more dedication to being open-minded and willing to admit he was wrong.
Haytham randomly pointing out what the american revolution is really about. Which is the truth btw, a lot of stuff in u.s history is pictured in a way just to sell it better. Connor helped people that wanted the same as the templars, power and controll only for themselfs. But he didnt see it cause they werent called the templars ( but at the end he understood it).
Yeah...that doesn't stop at US history. Just look at literally any nations history, everything gets painted over to make it seem like it benefits the masses when in reality it only benefits those with an inkling of power.
Growing up i wanted to be assassin. Now grown up sounds like haythem might have had a point. "People chose nothing(illusion of freedom) its a group of privilaged cowards looking to enrich themselfs" "freedom invites chaos(all the new crazy and dumb stuff)" "the only difference is i dont feign affection, they do(pandering/virtue signaling)". Anyone that lives in the western world today this should sound familiar. It eerily sounds like hes describing the present day deep state/matrix/globalists straight up.
