Question: the 4mm accessory chord is what actually connects the hammock and rope - so why use the thicker 7mm climbing rope at all when the strength of the system relies on the 4mm rope? Why not just use only 4mm rope and save on weight?
@@edjbrown8839 Good question, Ed. The 4m accessory cord is always doubled in a loop for this model (2x), while the 7m is used where it’s a single line (1x). The other reason for the 7 and 4 is that the sliding prusik works best when a thinner rope bites a fatter rope. That said, the 4m line is probably strong enough for most 1x applications if you’re looking for ultralight.
Thanks so much for the reply, much appreciated. I'm interested in trying this with only 4mm rope, I hope the prussik won't be too fiddly then if it's 4m on 4m. Thanks for the great video btw.
@@edjbrown8839 Nice! For ultralight, I’d suggest some 4mm Dyneema cordage and flat webbing instead of tubular webbing - just tie them together. It would be plenty strong and light. Whatever you choose, LMK how it goes!
excellent review, i own a tempest pro 170, it is the kayak to beat in this segment, unmatched comfort and spot on ergonomics (you completely forget you re in a kayak or even paddling - yes, that good), it s the toyota of kayaks, might still get a chatham or similar for something more playful
Completely agree. There’s 100 different options between traditional kayak and hyper-ski where the lines blur. Epic and others make closed-deck boats using surfski bottom hulls and also skis for long-touring. Always loved the rapier: rare and cool.
No thanks! I’ll use my Eddyline for that trip. More storage, more sure-footed. On the flip side, take your tourer to paddle race or downwind group paddle out of Manasquan. Different tools for different jobs.
I've got a Stealth Toura, 21" wide , it's great fun but it took me a long time to get used to it because I'm no athlete and my balance is rubbish 😂😂. My plan is to use it as a fast tourer.
It’s been a few years since I paddled that boat, but if I remember specs, it was a 100-200lbs person boat. Are you looking for a bigger-person’s boat or a smaller person’s boat?
@@Scootchels right on the cusp of the max. It's usually fairly easy to glean what the range is for height/weight from reviews, but the Seayak reviews are among the top for differing thoughts on it. Sorry, that last bit is clunky. I couldn't get it worded well. It's 5am.
Good video. You mentioned that surfskis don't have much rocker which isn't entirely true. Have you ever tried to paddle a ski with the rudder removed (or up in the case of an over the stern rudder)? They are very difficult to paddle straight with no rudder (over or under) in the water preventing the stern from coming around. Surfskis actually have quite a bit of rocker which is what makes them maneuverable on a wave face etc. You had a shot of various Epic boats toward the end and every one of the pictures shows rocker at both ends. There are quite a few other fast boats that really don't have much rocker but surfskis require it; the combination of the rocker and the deep under stern rudder plus the length, width etc. make these boats both fast and maneuverable. Surfskis are so much fun and you were right on the money about an adjustment period. Dawid Mocke; a phenomenal South African paddler says the MOST important thing you can do when you start paddling a ski is to get a boat you can paddle hard without much bracing. Getting a ski that is too tippy is quite common amongst newb paddlers (I bought one that was WAY too tippy) There are quite a few stable skis out there: Epic V5, V8, V10 or Stellar S14S, S16S, S18S and many more. They don't have to be elite level skis to be fast and fun. Thanks.
Awesome comment. You are correct - over time, ski manufacturers have added more rocker to gain maneuverability on waves. Still, I always assumed the reason skis can’t be paddled w out a rudder is that the hull is rounded everywhere except the bow, which is shaped like a rudder. The bow “rudder” wants to be in the stern when it’s not overruled by the stern rudder. Love the idea of getting a more stable ski to start. Thanks!
Hey BnB, I commented a few times on your Bahiya review. You replied you might be interested. I would sell it if you still want one. It will be available in our annual boat swap at Rutabaga Paddlesports in Madison WI. I don't know where you are located but it is available. Thanks.
Ridiculous comparing an ultralight race ski with an extremely heavy recreational or expodition kayak. It would be more reasonable to compare this race ski with an ultralight race kayak. Just remember that the race kayak rules have a minimum beam limit that is rather wider than a ski rules. A race kayak has the beam measurement point well above water line giving the race kayak a diamond looking shape. However the race kayak cross section will be parabolic to minimise the waterline beam possible within the measurement constraint. I think that if you do a valid comparison between racing ski and racing kayak of the same length, you will find they have a much more similar performance, though the kayaks competition rules are more restrictive than those of a race ski. so the kayak will still be somewhat disadvantaged. Alternatively you could compare a recreational ski with a recreational kayak & I don't mean a fishing kayak either, but one of similar waterline length.
Comparing two boats designed for racing wasn’t the point of this video, but I would certainly enjoy seeing that comparison if you want to create that content for us.
@@kenwebster5053 Uh…..wrong. It would be like comparing a GT car with a street passenger car, which is a valid comparison. If ya don’t like it, don’t watch it. If you want a different comparison, go create it. Watching this and whining about it in a 3 paragraphs comment is the true definition of “pointless”. NEXT!
@@Scootchels Sea kayaks are the most sea worthy small boat ever invented, capable of multi day Ocean crossings in adverse conditions. They were traditionally used in that way for trading voyages right around the Arctic Ocean. In the vehicle analogy, that definitely equates to an off road survival vehicle. Which is why I used that particular example. Your comparison is still pointless and meaningless. Because you chose to compare a specialist racing boat with a recreational one. Maybe compare a rec recreational ski or SUP with that kayak next time. There is something wrong if you don't get that point & repeating yourself does not strengthen your case. It just shows that you have no grounds to support your case. Say something different. But, whatever Dude.
I bought a used Bahiya a few weeks ago and it is not a normal sea kayak. It is quite edgy when paddled flat. It is actually less stable than my Stellar SR which is narrower and faster. I am big for it so it is not super fast. If you keep your hips loose and don't insist on holding the hull flat it is plenty stable but it like to be hullset to the right or left. So far my favorite thing about it is (and he mentions this) how a paddler can edge the boat using the chines to pull the boat left or right. This works particularly well with following seas and enables you to keep paddling forward and steer with your hips. In spite of being a hard chine boat with a low profile rear deck it does need a skeg in beam wind or quartering wind. Very interesting boat. Odd compared to all the Cetus/Explorers/etc but well designed.
I bought a used Bahiya a few weeks ago and it is not a normal sea kayak. It is quite edgy when paddled flat. It is actually less stable than my Stellar SR which is narrower and faster. I am big for it so it is not super fast. If you keep your hips loose and don't insist on holding the hull flat it is plenty stable but it like to be hullset to the right or left. So far my favorite thing about it is (and he mentions this) how a paddler can edge the boat using the chines to pull the boat left or right. This works particularly well with following seas and enables you to keep paddling forward and steer with your hips. In spite of being a hard chine boat with a low profile rear deck it does need a skeg in beam wind or quartering wind. Very interesting boat. Odd compared to all the Cetus/Explorers/etc but well designed.
Totally agree that is odd, but man how I loved that boat. Wish I kept her. Other sea kayaks are a little bit boring after owning a Bahiya. I can’t tell from ur write up whether you like it or not, but if not, hit me up! I’d like to own one again.
I tried an Epic V8 at Paddlefest Sanibel. Only fell off twice. I bought the Epic 18X Sport to replace my Necky Chatham 17. Finally settling on a Seda Glider 19. Because my interest was camping on distant islands. And touring the marked kayak trails around Ft Myers.
My 17’ Necky Chatham had Wilderness System hatch covers and back band. Old Town even sent me a coil of the original poly material to plastic weld a hole. You really need original formula plastic to get a good weld. You couldn’t even see the repair! That was the boat I took 8 miles during a small craft advisory. It was ballasted down good with camping gear. It was really stable. Tho the headwind was so strong I only made 2mph.
I noticed you commented on "edging" but in the turn on the video you were edged opposite of how I was taught to edge, for an "edge turn". All the instruction I've seen has the paddler edging to the outside of the turn rather than the inside for best effect. I also realize that we can edge either way and make the turn, but it seems a lot more strokes to edge to the inside of the turn. I've not been able to practice yet. Your thoughts?
You’re correct. Putting the boat up on edge - either edge - shortens the waterline and lifts the bow and stern “keels”. For most kayaks, edging “out” makes a better shape for efficient turns and inward edging causes more fight against the hull shape. I’ve always found outward edging to be less stable and counter-intuitive. Edging inside the turn -or “storm turn”- does take more effort in most boats. If you’re paddling mostly calm water where you can retain stability, or areas where tighter turns are needed, definitely edge by leaning outside as opposed to my inside turns.
Snug for sure. I’m not that size, so it’s a bit hard for me to judge, but it’s concerning enough that I’d suggest a try-before-you-by. You’d “fit”, but I’m not sure you’d be comfortable. There are other boats that are more specifically designed for bigger folks.
@@mehdimho i’m a bit out-of-touch on current models. Most articles will push you to a sit on top, which would work. For sit-ins We used to find Prijon Kodiaks or original Perception Sea Lions (not Sea lion Shadow). They may come up on the used market, but out of print for many years. Sorry I’m not more help.
@@directorstu Personally, I’d start with the cockpit outfitting. Get the fit right with the legs and seat, then you can customize the hip pads and knee braces. Next, it’s safety and operations. Replace any bad bungees, decklines or bad hatches. Also check the bulkheads for waterproofness. The skegs can be troublesome, too, but if it’s working smoothly you can leave as-is. From there, it’s the standards: PDF, paddle, dry bags, rescue float, throw rope. What else am I missing?
@@Scootchels thanks. This all makes sense. I've been playing with the seat and foot settings. Wqs a bit worried about lower back support but happier now. Skeg works well. Bulkheads and hatches look fine. Got a pfd Need the throw line and a paddle. Will buy a cheapish one and make a Greenland wooden one. Need a spray deck so I can get out in some white water.
it was cool. If you have all that stuff to do that. I wouldn't go purchase all that to make a strap. I would just use nylon webbing about 10ft-15 long x2 and just use two knots to tie straps to tree and hammock.
Looks good to me! I’m drooling over a second hand Riot, 13-footer. It has the skeg which I prefer to the rudder. It’s nylon too, I believe, so your comments stand! Do you still have/love your Riot?
Great idea! Been looking for something like this for a while. Know of any other options? Don’t they have metal hardware that’s basically the same thing? I’ve seen it but not sure if the name…
It depends on the model of surf ski. You can start on a surf ski, Epic V5, which is very stable. It's not as long or narrow, but definitely stable. Also, the Epic V-8 is longer and narrower, but still quite stable.
Without going to sea in rough conditions, launching and landing through surf, it is not a sea trial, nor is it a decent review. As it is, it's just another advertisement.
good info in the review, just an important correction about edging , the paddler in the vid is edging the wrong way & making the turn more difficult, causing a wider turning circle. In a sea kayak with your hips you edge the hull over out from the turn, he is edging into the turn - so for quick turning right you edge the kayak to the left and vica versa - for quick turn left edge over right.
I thought exactly the same thing when I saw that. I have a 95 seayak and doing an outside edge turn or rudder and it turns very quick to the point where it wants to edge more due to momentum!
It’s true, Jim. Edging outside lean does make the turn more efficient. It feels more intuitive and stable for me to “Storm Turn”, or inside edge. Both leans shorten the waterline and reduce the bow and keel depth, but I do agree that outside lean takes less paddling to turn. Here’s an interesting experiment…next time ur on the water get a head of steam and edge w out paddling. Does the boat turn? If so, to what extent? In my experiments it seems that the real difference is being on edge vs. which edge I’m on, varying by hull shape.
Overstates the need for a roll. Yes it is faster to get back on a ski and one does not have to empty it but there are numerous techniques for emptying a sea kayak before one gets back in. There are also numerous techniques for re-entering a sea kayak. Additionally, a sit-inside offers better protection from the cold, wind, rain and snow. Yes for day trips in warmer weather, a ski has its advantages.
I hate to break it to you but there is no comparison between remounting a ski and re-entering a sea kayak. Remounting a ski is WAY faster every time. Even if you re-enter and roll a sea kayak you then have a cockpit 1/2 full of water and a skirt to put on while the ski is 1/2 a mile gone. Any boat that is narrower than about 19 " wide is almost impossible to roll as there is no deck to get your knees under. A practiced remount on a ski takes about 30 seconds.
@@Scootchels Still, the points you make about the crucial differences are valid and important, thank you for them. I'd just rather call the kayak a prototypical one.
Nice to see the difference, although a V5, V6 or V7 would make a better match I think. A V12 is pro-level and fully built for speed. Last Autumn we did an amazing surfski camp in Sardinia. You can check here. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Lw_HSVseV24.html All video by myself, edit by the organisation Tom Beck
WACONimages - trip looked fantastic!! Thanks for sharing. You comment came at an interesting time. I happen to have a V7 to throw up against an elite ski and a sea kayak
Thanks. I wanted to see her in chop. I kayak the open ocean in a Sea Eagle RazorLite now and want to move up to a hard shell touring boat. My question about her is how does she handle wind? My current craft weathercocks like crazy and wears me out trying to stay straight. Four miles of fighting current and weather cock and I am miserable. Any issues with this kayak?
Crickett Hoffman - So the boat has a pretty high deck that leaves some side area for windage, but with a little skeg drop she stays straight. In fact, staying straight is what she does best. It would be a WORLD different than your Sea Eagle. Inflatables are great but they are notorious for sitting on top of the water where a good sea kayak is planted “in” the water. Just finished a 70 miler in a 170 - had a few good blows but never felt like I was fighting. Just be sure to choose the right size for yourself (obviously).
I currently have a Pungo 120. I am looking for something faster, lighter, yet not with the small cockpit of a sea kayak. I am 6’1 and 170lbs. I kayak mostly on flat water reservoirs with occaisional wind and chop. What would you recommend? Does such a boat exist?
Most sea kayaks have a pretty standard cockpit so if that doesn’t work your stuck with more of a sit on top. There are some performance sit on tops that aren’t so tippy as the ski we reviewed here. Check out Epic’s V5, V6, V7, V8. Stellar, Fenn, Pyranha and others have recreational sit on top surfski offerings as well. My favorite SOT touring kayak is the Cobra Expedition if you can find one used. There are other performance SOT sea kayaks but I can’t remember models at the moment.
@@caycug1 I know this is two years ago but if you are sitll interested in solo canoes there are LOTS of great boats. Fast solo canoes include the Wenonah Prism or Voyager or the Northstar Magic or the Swift Cruiser 16.8 or Cruiser 14.8. There are more general purpose canoes as well like the Wenonah Wilderness or the Northstar Northwind Solo or the NS Trillium, Phoenix, or Firebird. Contact Rutabaga Paddlesports in Madison WI. They will steer you in the right direction.
@@Scootchels I found the ski simply too tippy for me. I tried one that was supposed to be very novice friendly but it's a totally different animal than sea kayaking. There are more than a few sea kayaks left that are relatively fast and stable but this is going by the wayside. Kayaking in general is greatly declining because people want paddling for two extremes, either nonchalantly fishing, drinking beer and relaxing on the water but not exerting yourself much, or going balls to the wall fast. The third market of course are the SUP's which I find to be both tippy and slow. While there are many things you can do with a SUP, going places efficiently especially having a reserve against wind and waves and weather is not one of them. The "in between" market for people who want to go kind of fast, but don't want to give up the ability to relax seems to be vanishing. I am glad I found (sea kayaks) like the Stellar or Nelo brands which offer a range that is suited to varying skills levels but don't push it like crazy. To me the Ski is like a Ferrari, amazing car sure, but to really enjoy it you have to be going 10/10 all the time and if you're not into going top speed or driving very fast in an extreme way all the time they are frankly pretty lousy. Unless the reason you're going very slow is to have the windows rolled down to make sure lots of babes see you but that's another story....
Mike Coglione - completely understand! It took almost a full season on a ski to feel confident enough to even try anything but the calmest conditions. I’m blown away by the guys who surf 8’ waves across ocean passes. I still like the ski for workout paddles but nothing beats a fast kayak. The “babe” factor stopped being a factor quite some time ago, but that’s another story....
@@Scootchels I know what you mean about the other story. Happily married with two now getting older kids we are super busy. Ski is an amazing community that I would love to be a part of but I don't have the time or resources right now. I am surprised to see that sea kayaks are falling in popularity as it's not that much harder than the sit on tops, and about as hard as SUP but much faster and gives more reserve against conditions than either. The difference is the ski is another huge jump in performance but unlike sea kayaking which gives a big performance bump for only a little more difficulty, the difficulty, effort and even expense of having to keep trading up to faster but less stable boats with ski is commensurately as huge. That said the paddlers on all the surfski/kayak/SUP company facebook pages are pretty attractive. Happy to say, minus the tights we almost look like that in our 40's except a few more wrinkles, a bit less hair but more than a few of them white and somewhat less muscle. But not much or any gut!
