The part that made the biggest emotional impact on me was the scene in which Krile's mother leaves her with Galuf. Something about the moment when she turns around and gets hit with the reality that this is goodbye forever to her baby cuts deeper than Excalibur 2.
Characters are bland at this point, the story is a fairly basic fantasy trope against the Big Bad Empire, you're treated as a mercenary, and you spend a lot of the last 1/4 of the story third-wheeling for Yoshi-P's Cid OC.
How bright the views about this expansion were back then. Honestly, it’s just funny hearing how universally anticipated Dawntrail was and how universal disliked and disappointed Dawntrail is (save for the Arcadion lightweight battles). Also it is very funny how even FFXIV snuck a threat beyond the Endsinger and somehow made it feel like absolutely nothing, not even intrigue that there could be convenient ways to travel to other worlds in the future.
I think we all know exactly where you're coming from. I love everything from ARR to Endwalker. I don't love Yawntrail. It disappointed and saddened me. It bored me. It sometimes angered me. I started out mildly positive about Wuk, but she just doesn't want to go away and CLINGS to me for the entire game and by the end I loathed her and wished she's die in a plot twist. I had physical reactions of disgust and displeasure When I saw her show up or I heard her voice. After dragging myself through the MSQ I've been on a FFXIV vacation. I no longer miss the game when I'm away from it and I think I need to go away to get that feeling back.
I almost felt that it was an insult to the beloved voice actors getting almost no work in favour or a certain someone. There is 1 instance of "go talk to Estinien" during the entire MSQ while there are 138 instances of "go talk to Wuk". I felt like my friends were getting betrayed.
I won't comment on the story itself but the 10 year problem and overall stagnation of FFXIV. I can't imagine being someone who played FFXIV since Heavensward (or god forbid ARR or even 1.0) with minimal/no breaks while the game kept simplifying/homogenizing gameplay rather than making strides to do the opposite for those wanting, as well as the predictable content mill framework that they established a decade ago. I started mid-2021 and as great as the game felt going through from 2021 to 2023 for me, essentially doing most of what the game has to offer (casual, midcore, hardcore, social, and everything in between), by end of 2023 I couldn't give a fuck about any content in the game anymore, 80% of the expansion-to-expansion features/content have been following a near identical pattern ever since Heavensward/Stormblood expansions and as great as things like graphical updates and multi-dye systems are, the game DESPERATELY needs an overhaul in story structure, quest structure, dungeon structure, content drip feeding structure, hell, as much as I am excited for the new exploration content (Eureka v3) and that will be roughly the time when I'll resub, I have a feeling it might just be a mix of Eureka and Bozja and not something sincerely fresh, despite Endwalker having no such zone. It's worrying especially since CBU3 showed the same issues while creating a brand new game with FFXVI, the story structure was surprisingly a rollercoaster of incredible, cinematic highs and abysmal lows, as well as most of the side content feeling like the most cookie cutter, static MMO filler, except it wasn't a MMO, it's a single player action RPG. The game needed a MUCH bigger shake up with 7.0 than what we got, and the fact that they're only talking about it for 8.0 which is two more years is truly disheartening.
I restarted ARR some 4 times I think, and each time it failed to capture me. It was too straightforward, and I didn't slog on long enough to hit Garuda in any of my 4 times, because it was really hard to solo content and the early dungeons didn't have much people at the time when I was trying the demo, and I was in the wrong region. It's definitely something that only having friends to play with makes better. Which makes sense since it's a MMO. It wasn't until I found some friends to play with that I finally pulled through ARR and landed in dragon land. Like you I'm a story-focused type of person. That was a little bit of a less slog since there was a more interesting story in HW. However, it wasn't until ShB hit that I was hooked and marathoned ShB in a full week, EW in the next week, and then chilled and finished Dawntrail MSQ in 1 month.
Mmhm, I agree with the retelling over and over again part. During Endwalker this started to be evident, and in Dawntrail it got a little tired. Because of this, I kind of liked Zoraal Ja because he wasn't a villain you could feel sympathetic of. He was more like Thanos, and I kinda wish his story stuck to that. I really really thought he was going to be the last boss and I was ok with this really obvious conclusion. Zoraal Ja's kid also bothered me, because they didn't bother introducing his mother and backstory for the kid. Like knowing Zoraal Ja actually had a family might have been good way to flesh out his story and actually make me more motivated to fight him. I initially thought Zoraal Ja's kid was a clone and there was a plot twist behind it. It would've been an interesting way to show the Alexandrians control over souls if they split Zoraal Ja's soul into two. Then the 2nd half talked to us without us knowing it, and through Gulool Ja's side of things we learn more about Zoraal Ja. This would make Zoraal Ja not as weird with his motivations of inflicting pain to teach his people, which is on the surface like Venat's, but obviously dangerous since he's taking a proactive part instead of simply letting people deal with their own struggle. I'm kind of upset that Thancred and Urianger weren't utilised more too. I wasn't too concerned with the twins not doing anything, though I agree they could've, but Urianger and Thancred was the disappointing one. I was so hyped to fight them or have them just whizz past us with their brilliance. We'd get snarked at and Alisaie would be annoyed/shake a fist and Alphinaud would get knocked over and look gobsmacked by their tricks, while Urianger and Thancred shot us shit-eating grins. WoL would just be like "We'll get them back for that!" while punching their hand and we'd chase after them... oh I wish we had that. I think the part where we had to find the banana leaves for xibruq pabil would've been good for this, had Koana been paired with another contestant. It's also a lot more exciting if the fight also included an actual tussle over the ingredients, like if a mad beast ran loose over the area and we had to fight to get to it, or we end up fighting Zoraal Ja/Bakool Ja Ja who is our teammate to get the ingredient. Yeah I knew DT wasn't going to be high key either, I too went in with very tempered expectations. I think this whole plot is going to be more enjoyable if we ran with the trust system lvl100 glam through all the MSQ cutscenes lol
Not only do I dislike the story, all four of my jobs are currently under tuned, and when I play phys ranged I kind of feel like I'm getting carried by vipers and pictos and almost have to apologize for enjoying playing dancer or machinist, or I just play viper because I have half the gear for it. Having Krile as the main marketing focus was really scummy of SE, Krile got kicked to the curb. Probably my last expansion, on to new worlds!
In terms of the story, things after base Endwalker may as well have been set in a more optimistic universe where you can follow battle shounen logic and it will work. But they pretend that it is the same universe, except for the strange hint that you were on your last legs after fighting Zenos yae Galvus. Yes, it is a tired “died but reincarnated” copium, but it really does feel that when the Warrior of Light woke up at the end of Endwalker they woke up in a world that follows anime logic overtly.
11:05 - "And he looked like TinTin, and I couldn't stop seeing it the entire time" Me either, but I was all about TinTin being in FFXIV, so that was a plus for me.
Damn, nothing but excellent points here. I also had the thing where I enjoyed it as I was going through, even if I thought some of the dialogue was a bit childish, but the more I thought about it the worse it got. I hope they take the constructive criticism to heart and blow our minds with 8.0. After all, we got Shadowbringers after Stormblood!
I don’t necessarily think there is a problem here. We have to come to the realization that the WoL‘s arc as the main character pretty much ended with Endwalker, and they have assumed a mentor role now, with other NPCs taking on the actual MC role (Zero, Wuk Lamat). I think the real issue here is that many people consider Wuk Lamat‘s writing to be bad. I would like to think that if she actually were a character that most people would agree was well-written, a lot of these concerns would automatically go away.
I feel like everything that was wrong with the story can be summed up by the writing team probably being fresh out of internship, since the senior members have been promoted. The story just screams amateurish to me and it has soured the way I view this game, my favorite game of all time.
Even if we leave little Galool's identity as a mystery for a later patch, the fact nothing about it is even hinted (aside from Zoraal Ja himself stating he's NOT his father) makes him feel more like a plot device than a character. A cheap tactic to give you the feels. Who's the mom? where is she? we know Sphene can't be the mom, why is "the prince" wandering the city like he's homeless? why does nobody recognize him? none of that matters, apparently.
I think I'm fine with flying in the face of conventional story telling with an mmo. Like many commmenters, its the execution that gets me. One moment this really struck me was after we returned after killing Zoraal Ja. Wuk Lamat caught Koana up with Galool Ja for some reason. And not only that, but we had to come with, wandering the streets and recapping things that literally just happened. Normally, this would be a silent cutscene as the characters gesture like they are talking, and then we move on to new info. Not so here. Instead, they explain everything and not in a complete cutscene. Oh no. We have to walk to several different points to continue the story. And then, when we finish, we just return right to the palace. That whole thing should have been cut. I do even like certain things in theory, like Galool Ja. I really feel like Zoraal Ja was a missed opportunity. I've heard over and over stories where a biological child gets a nasty sense of entitlement or refuses to accept adopted siblings. Then add in his full story. He's a miracle. Most two headed Mamool Ja never sire children, yet here he is. He should be all his father wanted, but I could easily see him feeling hurt that his father went and found two children to adopt. Like he isn't enough. They aren't even Mamool Ja. And then, to add to that even more, he isn't even promised to rule the nation. I think there was some real potential in him. So much more than what we got. I had assumed Sareel Ja was either one of the remaining ascians or he was working for the next big bad. Corrupting Zoraal Ja by feeding his insecurities. This version of him would sire Galool Ja to be his successor, and really push his son. If you've seen My Hero Academia, I'd like to have seen Zoraal Ja as Endeavor and Galool Ja his son Todoroki. Pushing him to surpass both his father and grandfather so hard it smothers him. This version of the tale would have a lot of family strife, with Galool Ja coming to resent his father. I'd also age Galool Ja up. Maybe show some flashbacks with him young and have him teenage.
I’ve only played up to heavensward and tiny bit of stormblood but I really like how these problems are addressed in a way, for example the warriors of darkness questline gives sympathy to kobolds and expands on why beastribes summon primal in the first place
You’re a genius, thank you so much for making this video! I saw voices with either less analysis, more hate, or pulling punches, and you’re the first one to hit bullseye. Your point about themes is perfect - every good design is sum of its parts supporting the larger whole. It was present in SHB, in EW, but this principle seems to be forgotten here. And your point about self-referentiality is something that I almost felt guilty of noticing too… recycled enemy models, recycled visuals, recycled other FF plot points, but now even recycled themes and structure from previous expansions? This level of recursiveness was a bit scary to see… I love this game and to play this expansion you have to clear equivalent of four RPGs in a row with the same character, it’s not just a random title you can give a shot, it’s a subscription game with paid content, there is time, money, emotional investment. For Dawntrail to feel this “cheap” in its key areas, is worrying especially in terms of the 10 year plan. Commented, liked, subscribed, love your content 💖
I took a break from the msq when my war hit 100 right after the Jarule Ja Ja fight to get my Sam up to the same level. I'm prioritizing 1 tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 range DPS, and 1 healer(vomit) that being said the amount of people who completed the content at breakneck speeds(my supervisor at work took the week off at launch and finished the story in 4 days)to turn around and make videos about how lackluster it's been, meanwhile it's more and more difficult to avoid the dsat videos more and more....I'll watch this while video and maybe by the end....I'll look like a whole @$$, all I'm saying is that the amount of the I don't like this or that videos that gets recommended to me is staggering. I don't even look for dawntrail review videos, only thing I look for FFXIV related is dungeon guides. But that's the jacked up youtube algorithm for you. If you start thumbs down and click not interested on a specific channel....like truly heinous subjects like the Philadelphia Eagles, the algorithm decides that you actually want all of that type of content. But for now let's watch the rest of this video ...my whole thing is I'm genuinely trying to get through Dawntrail at me leisure, I really am
Hi! Professional linguist and fellow storyteller here. Really appreciate this video, so I'm gonna go ahead and suscribe. Wanted to share an anecdote. My friend had been trying to get me to join xiv for years, and I finally joined around Shadowbringers, and when he asked what made me finally join, I said " i watched the shb cinematic (didn't realize the game would show me spoilers when I just started) and the early modern english [urianger] uses is (90% of the time) historically and grammatically accurate so here I am." And a lot of what kept me going through the ARR pre-quest deletion pacing was just soaking in a really linguistically creative and fun environment. Knowing that the localization was so interwoven with the Japanese team and even linguistically influenced language in Japanese was so much fun for me. Any time there were mistakes I'd be a little sad but fine, because to me it was the only story that even tried to have fun with language. And then something happened after Endwalker. There was a whole cutscene of Urianger and Zero talking in a room, exchanging pleasantries, and nothing else was happening, and I was like... why is this cutscene here. Because the whole cutscene was just to show everyone being happy with zero tension. And I guess the patience from enjoying the localization was over, and all that was left was my writer brain, and suddenly I was getting really frustrated how many times voice actors were paid to say " Hi, how fare you" "I am well, thank you" "How about you, champion? *dialogue option to say good thx* "Full glad am I to hear that" "I too am glad we are all so happy". I kind of just accepted that it's an MMO so it's less of a story they're telling and more of a world we're living in. But watching your video I'm thinking, yeah, why can't we have better pacing and all? Why can't the Scions get new misbeliefs to make them have an arc again (although I'm fine with focusing on new characters that we now have to influence)? But like you said, there are so many interesting concepts, and I think part of what gets me through it now is rewriting the story in my head using all the extra pieces they provide. Anyway, thanks for the video!
Shaaloani should have been the first map. Dawntrail is a slow burn of an expansion. We go into Shaaloani for no real narrative reason WHATSOEVER, so this slow burn comes to an entire halt. To make matters worse, we enter it after we have the cutscene with Zooral Ja at the Golden Gate... Moving the Shaaloani map to the beginning, we have our "fun" little Western romp before reaching Tuliyollal and the real story begins works better. Yes, we have the whole thing with Wuk's nannie's bracelet, but literally we could have a cutscene where we see Wuk say goodbye and give her the bracelet before she sets off to take the train to Yyasulani. Follow this with a coronation scene or a banquet before all hell breaks loose with the attack from the Alexandrians. We return to Shaaloani to fix the train and head into Heritage Found.
Many problems : - The story is just a copy of Endwalker's story (sphene is meiteion, zoraal ja is Zordiach, and the begining is garlemade where you have to understand the story to finish the conflict blablabla) - DJ and raid : it's always the same recipe, but with different "color". I'm tired of this stupid aisle with mob-boss. 60 dj and they look lill all the same ! - gameplay : too rigid... in any mmo, you can innov by using your skill. For example, in SWTOR, you can use your jump skill to focus the mob in up stage, you can push ennemy out the plateform... Here, you can't do nothing, it's like a "2d" game...
I love your analysis of the ARR's finale! "The consequence of unfettered idealism and an assumption that working towards the good of all is enough" is beautifully put... but I just came here from your Dawntrail video, so I'm going to choose to laugh now instead of cry.
I don't like how the entire expansion was about Wuk Lamat. Like who even is this character? It was bearable in the previous expansions, all the characters they focused on were already established characters that people wanted to learn more about. I'd have been fine if Krile was the focus of this expansion. Personally, I want a whole expac for Y'shtola, but that's just me. Honestly speaking though, we've never had a whole expac dedicated to a single character. There were close ones, (Alphinaud, Lyse) but they were never there the entire time. They did shit on their own and grew because of it too while WoL was off doing WoL things. People are right, this expac was basically babysitting Wuk Lamat.
I loved Dawntrail, although I agree with most of the critiques regarding stagnating themes and awkward transitions between acts (Texas was really just a filler arc so we could be there to see the dome pop up) and do think Krile and Erenville could have had a little more focus. Living Memory hit different for me than Amaurot or Ultima Thule despite being a similar concept on paper, though. While it is still about loss and letting go, the zone story we go through with our main characters (up until it's time to fight Sphene) specifically deals with the loss of a parent or parental figure. It was beautiful and harrowing and hit really close to home as someone who lost a parent relatively young, on a personal level it resonated with me more than Shadowbringers or Endwalker. I liked how Wuk/Krile/Erenville all responded in different ways to the passing of their parents, with Wuk taking the opportunity to tell Namikka how much she loved her and how grateful she was for the time they were together while still readily accepting her passing, Krile just being happy to finally meet her birth parents (and they her, in a sense) when she thought she'd never get that chance at all, and Erenville having a more difficult time accepting the loss of Cahciua and feeling a sense of bitterness and abandonment before finally resolving to carry on in her stead and do all the things she couldn't do while she was alive.
Great video, it's first that I've seen of yours. Not only do I totally agree with your analysis, but you have also taught me a lot about effective story writing! Ty
I think you missed what the story was about in the Mamool Ja village. The MSQ tells you that the people sympathetic to Tulliyolal all went to the city. So the ones that stayed behind were just the ones too set in their ways / racist to change. It’s so bad that people that want to trade with the mamool ja village have to do it in secret because the town is so hated. Galool ja sends us to the town so we can see it for own eyes. So, this part of the story seems well explained. The babies is weird but also at least somewhat understandable.
I began to dislike Wuk Lamat as the dawntrail story progressed . There was a lot of cutscenes this expansion ( which I would usually be into it) but the issue was that the story was boring and BAD! Hence the cutscenes were mostly boring. I wanted to skip almost every cutscene in the midpoint of the expansion. Between mediocre story, sidelining the actual main character ( us) and flat voice acting of the new MC ( Wuk Lamat) ….its a solid 4/10 for me. A fluff Friendship and magic defeats villain plot is getting old af. Sphene was introduced so late, that I did not care about her and her people. The writers could have taken a risk and done something interesting instead I had to listen to a Wuk Lamat being a scuffed Naruto. I hope the future updates will save this shit plot 😢
I was disappointed because I was expecting a shadowbringers quality story but instead I'm told WoL is going on a vacation but instead I'm just following around a kid. What makes it worse is that I feel like the story can just happen with out the WoL
Basically completely agree with your comments here. Even the parts that did hype me or hit my emotions - Erenville's was sad, and I wanted more intensity despite relating and empathising alot - Entry to Tulliyolal - Oh cool it's the trailer moment! (but that's literally the only reason why) - Defense of Tulliyolal - Hold up, it's cool we had our boi Vritra back for a moment but I THOUGHT WE WERE MOVING ON FROM ENDWALKER, WHY IS A THIRD OF THIS EXPANSION USING IT'S MUSIC? XD at the end of the day, Bakool Ja Ja's character growth was my favourite cause he had the best fleshing out of pain, history and unity/self awareness
I've always wanted them to kill a character. I think in stories where characters are in mortal peril it's a good idea to kill off characters from time to time. If characters always end up living after facing mortal danger, like in 14, you never really feel a sense of danger. You could throw G'raha in a volcano and I'd be surprised to find out he was dead. You don't have to go full game of thrones but a promise of danger only works if you've shown that you will go through with it. IMO G'raha should have died in SHB. You wouldn't have had to worry about that getting in the way of older content because you have to do crystal tower in order to get to this point. Also, while I like G'raha post SHB, he doesn't feel like the same character and that's never sat well with me.
Just a nitpick on your take of what each zone represents... At first I also thought Yok Tural was meant to represent Spain, but the fact that the Tural region is called "the west" (which I guess could also refer to Europe since it is west of Japan), Tuliyollal's staple food being tacos, and the architechure, I think it's meant to more of a represention of Mexico. My theory of it being Mexico was more solidified when we went to Xak Tural and it was an American western theme. So together, those two regions fit the southern NA vibe. On another note, Xak Tural made me think of Arizona, not Texas. But that's probably a detail that's more up to interpretation.
Wuk lamat shoukd have taken a backseat. She was very boring. A silly WoL vacation trip would have been a more compelling expansion than what Wuk Lamat offered tbh.
I replayed out of curiosity over the years the whole story tried the 3 city starts, seen the changes and also found out little details I missed in the previous times, plus the updates and the new Cape Westwind and Steps of Faith. It is not perfect and still taking it slowly and enjoy it is a true pleasure.
As a player not that young anymore and also as a player since 1.0 and the very beginning of ARR I really appreciated your video. It makes me see even more things of this expansions that i did not notice in the plot structure or better say lack of structure. As you mentioned this is a puzzle of things not connected together, a lack of new elements with an horrible pacing. This story has indeed made me both angry and apathetic that while other expansions gave me feelling this one left me with nothing more than the difficulty to end it to finally access the game contents. The feeling is first of all the lack of interactivity, like reading a visual novel just to reach the videogame instead of playing a videogame. We always followed a linear path without any real decision but this time there are so many forced choices that make no sense the biggest example is when reaching the door of the golden city we just leave so that the bad guy could do what he had to do. While this can still work on level 50-60 cannot work on level 100 where not only the player is aware of what is going to happen but also the character is too well experienced not to expect that. We also witness the death of Gulool Ja Ja, doing nothing except for noticing the hear gear is responsible for the turn of events, and once we reach Yasulani, obviusly instead of investigating what is this thing all have on their head we go to see how the crops are cultivated. As you mentioned Gulool Ja Ja ruled for 80 years and placed no guards to the entrance nor set up protection measures on the key. This also leads me to the mess on the timelines of this story, Ketenramm according to the story was with Gulool Ja Ja 80 years ago in his Tural unification quest, so he is approximately 100 years old and he is left as the only guardian of the door? Wuk Lamat, starts her quest to become ruler and in her supposed 20 years of life showed no interest in learning about her people at all, even if she is living in the palace of the power even though she reached level 90 to battle together with us. To get there we had to go through world thretening events so it is expected that to gain that level you should experience a bit of life. One more detail is the invincible spaceships and robotic army wiped in 5 minutes, in Stormblood the story gives the sense of long lasting war in the Gymlith Dark here Zoral ja give the attack order and the army is wiper by dragons and some heroes around while our character is still there in front of Zoral Ja, same scene standing in the middle of nowhere. Then where the kid comes from? Where is the mother? Is he just a broken condom accident? How is it possible to have the father abandon him, try to kill him and then have him say I did all this to give you a legacy, nonsense. The mother of Erenville that speaks with no scandinavian accent, and we know in Sharlaya they do not speak scandinavian so how Erenville got his Icelandic accent, just after a fashion? Why Tural had not even a single documented case of Final Days, is it not on the same planet? As a person that was trained to be a mentor for his new colleagues for several years i can definitely say that the WoL is not there to be the mentor of Wuk Lamat, it is just an excuse to make this summer time job be presentes as something cool while it is nothing more than babysitting the kids of the neighbour. Compare ARR to DT as a new starts is also a flawed assumption. I was there after the failure of the 1.0 and they had to rebuild a game not to have the SE go bankrupt, they had nothing to start with and no money, so they had to slow the pace of the players while creating contents. Now after 10 years of code written and 3d models and events and most of all money and programmers, all we got is a ton of fetch quests, a fake trading game and huge quantity of important cutscenes unvoiced while some filler ones are voiced. So knowing the backgorund of ARR and having been there, DT is totally uncomparable to A Real Reborn. At the end of my too long post, my apologies for that, I want to ask you as a content writer about one moment that upset me becasue I felt they broke the tension for no reason after building it, one case of several but probably the most blatant, and wanted your opinion. The quest between the giants dungeon and the trial of Valigarmanda. I felt ready for the fight, and then I was sent for like 30 minutes following a minion attacking random mobs and once I reached the trial I lost the hype. Why do you think they had to add that filler, kind of comedic quest shattering the dramatic tension?
man reading your comment just keeps making me angrier and angrier with how badly they fucked up the story. I was pissed off when I finished the story, but now my heart hurts from how terrible it was.
@@mlemlemmlemmlem yes unfortunately it was a struggle to finish it without skipping anything and for someone that still loves this game so much it is sometimes even hard to login these days.
It is very obvious allied tribe quest story writers wrote this main story......... I don't know what yoshiP was thinking "Let's assume everyone knows the story and NPC............" result: Alphinaud and alisaie are invisible and quiet. I wonder if first time Urianger and Thancred , Alisaie and Alphinaud VA think "What happened to my character......"
