Mortarion is definitely a tough person to befriend. As far as I can recall he only really got on well with Horus, but Morty definitely isn’t the first guy you think of when you’re thinking of Horus’s great friendships. I think maybe there would be a potential friendship with Corvus Corax. Both of them are loners, and both have a kind of champion of the downtrodden, liberator from tyranny thing going on. Both grew up under oppressive regimes and overthrew evil overlords. Plus their legions could compliment each others’ shortcomings; the brutal direct force of the Deathguard and the precision of the Ravenguard. And both end in “guard”, lol. Vulkan is also someone I could see having formed a friendship with Mortarion in the right circumstances. Both legions have similarities in their fighting styles, as each has an emphasis on toughness and stolidity, so I would think there would be some common ground there. Vulkan is also a very goodhearted person, and has a deep care for people, which might compliment Mortarion’s self image as a liberator and champion of the oppressed. With Vulkan’s influence, I think that aspect of Mortarion’s character could have been greatly expanded.
I really like your idea of Vulkan taking on Mortarian as a friend and trying to help him. I don't think he would suceed as I think Mortarian is too far gone by the time he is discoverd, but it would be interesting to see him try. Vulcan did have a go at bringing Curze back from the edge but that failed, maybe if he started on Mortarian as soon as he was discoverd he might have a chance...
Vulkan has one more weapon that arguably tops the rest: Urdrakule. Forged by Vulkan's hand, while psychically guided by the Emperor during the Heresy. That alone would put it in the same league as the Apollonian Spear, the Spear of Russ (aka Wolfspear, aka Gugnir) and the other weapons made and used by the Emperor. The weapon is so monstrously powerful, it destroyed Ferrus Manus's metal hands when the Iron Hands remnants started basically worshipping his corpse.
I can’t think of any of them that could be friends with Morty. The very few who might be able to like him he’d hate. It certainly wouldn’t make the top 5 but after reading the Leman Russ primarch novel and a few WD articles Lion and Russ ended up friends. In typical Lion fashion he kept it to himself and I think Russ kept it from his legion for laughs. You think of Russ as the attack dog but he was the only person I remember that successfully called Lion off attacking when he convinced him Corax wasn’t a traitor. Russ had several cool relationships including Malcador. Another quality analysis. 👍🏻
Thanks! I suppose although Russ and the Lion have had their problems they are both extremly loyal to the Emperor, and like Valdor this would give them some common ground to start a friendship from.
I really like your channel. It actually provides analysis into the lore and the characters in it. It’s refreshing in this age of fact regurgitation and content firehoseing. Cheers!
Atleast in the Alpharius: Head of the hydra its told that the alpha legion has been active during the beginning of the great crusade. Though remember, this is a lie
I thought the white scars were also pulled from the Scandinavian region as well hilarious enough, for example, torgan and jubal khan. I believe were from this area. Great video, nonetheless.
Hey thanks, looks like I made a mistake there! The first recruits came from the Thulean basin, which I thought was North East Asia.. but it was in fact the sea bed of the northern Atlantic. However only the first recruits came from here, soon after they started recruiting from across all of Terra.
Nobody needs Russ and the 30K Space Wolves. The real heroes are the 40K ones under the lead of Logan Grimnar. Saving civilians, going at war with the inquisition an grey knights, old logan runing and spaking primarks in is terminator armor :D by the way i just descovered your content a few days ago and i really like it. thks for your vids. just a critisism since your vids are mainly audio content i use them as such and when you listen to them while driving or working, the sound could be a little improved and also a bit more output level. im at Max Volume and its sometimes a bit short to raelly ear what you say.
I quite like them. Most of the Loyalist Legions get better when their Primarch is found, and this is true with the White Scars/Star Hunters, but the Star Hunters seemed to be more of a lateral shift where they're much different, but only slightly better. So it would be interesting to see a more indepth look at the shift from Star Hunters to White Scars from the perspective of an original Star Hunter. If I were writing it, I'd explore the similarities between the Star Hunters and the Warrior Lodges that Erebus introduced to the Legions, potentially with an aim to show that the Star Hunters were doing it the "right" way and it was corrupted by Erebus. There's a fascinating parallel there that I hope GW explores more deeply in the future. They're also one of the Legions that makes me hope there's more in-depth information about WHY each Legion was created. Why is there an entire Legion of Scouts? And an entire Legion of subtle Infiltrators? (Alpha) And an entire Legion that seems to be a mix of both? (Raven Guard) And a LEGION of Night Lords? These are Legions that seem to be either better suited being mostly Mortal (Alpha Legion), or being smaller forces that are used sparingly (Night Lords), or being just part of each legion as a unit type (White Scars, Raven Guard). And yet we have them as full Legions - why? Yes, the IRL reason is "Sell Moar Modahls!" and "Diverse Game Play!", but what's the In Lore reason?
Yes, it would be great for GW to fill in some of the Legions past, particularly around the Emperors plans for each and if he actually intended to create a legion from each. I read something about the Alpha legion having to be pressed into more conventional service and being increased in numbers due to the need for extra legionaries at the front as more and more enemies were encounted.
Not quite, they wanted to join Horus and turn against the imperium, but they thought that the Khan wanted that too. He actually considered it but once he realised that the Heresy wasn't just a rebellion but something darker he chose the Emperor, and almost all the would be traitors in his legion accepted his decision.
And how many marines will die if horus chose to turn on angron? Because theres no way yo do it before the heresy starts, so horus will have to exterminate the world eaters very closely to the purge of the loyalists in his legions. Sure he can send the loyalists to go fight angron, but angron isnt gonna be on the defensive, he will retaliate, and in that situation, he might well take out one of the other traitor primarchs, like teleporting himself onto fulgrim's quarters while fulgrim is engaged in debauched shenanigans. So now horus is down 1 legion, 2 primarchs, and a whole lot more ships and men. He really ought to have angron stay on the vengeful spirit.
Yeah, it's true a direct move against Angron may be more trouble than it's worth, but It's possible that he could make it look like the Emperors fault like he did with the Thousand Sons. He could have told Angron to go and slaughter the population of an imperial world and then order the loyalist Primarchs to go and bring him to heal in the Emperors name. They then kill Angron, as no one is taking in Angron alive and the loyalists also take some damage during the attempt. It's a win win.
@@GrimDarklore77 yea thats one way, but the massacre of the 1ksons raised alot of suspicion, so orchestrating that will take more time and effort. Also he will be short one legion of meatshield berserkers. Certainly an interesting topic to ponder though.
A lot of the great loyalist characters from the heresy come from traitor legions: Garviel Loken (10 company Captain, Luna wolves) Tarik Torgaddon (2nd company captain, luna wolves) Nero Vipus(Locasta tactical squad, 10th company, Luna wolves) Saul Tarvitz(10th company Captain, Emperors children), Solomon Demeter(2nd company, Emperors children), Macer Varen(World eaters) Captain Ehrlen( world eaters) Ulys temeter( Death guard), Nathaniel Garro( Battle Captain of the Death Guard's 7th great company), Endryd Haar( world eaters), Reviual Arvida( Thousands sons), Barabas dantioch ( Iron warriors), The Anchorite(dreadnought of the Word bearers), Fel Zahrost(Chief librarain of the night lords), Kasati Nuon( night lords), Barthusa Narek(Word bearers)
Saul Tarvitz's last stand with the remaining loyalists ended the Heresey before it even started. He inadvertantly gave certain individuals time to warn Terra and he fought to the last man with 4 to 1 kill ratio and brought the heretic forces low, to a point they could never overwhelm loyalist forces in the long run..
Great video man, just came across you and subbed. Looking forward to more videos. I've listened to about 2/3 of the Horus Heresy audiobooks, obviously all the Solar war ones and the Siege of Terra books. I know a long way down the line but would love your thought's on those books.
Yeah I think them and those like them that stayed loyal even though their Primarchs and most of their brothers turned are the most admirable of the Imperium's heroes!
While Angron not having been assigned with other Primarch to serve as his tard wrangler, whole plan was not bad to be honest. Every alternative I was able to think off like not doing purge all at once, have every Primarch take his fleet and do the deed in different parts of space, at the end of the day Istvaan 3 was a solid idea of one clean cut that could leave Horus with army ready to take on the Imperium with loyalist being still in the dark. I guess only thing I could come up with would be - since warrior lodges were already in place - form a secret police of some of the members or intelligence service in other to have better control over loyalist elements pre Istvaan 3 massacre which could help avoiding situations like Garro, Tarvitz, Loken. Although that is still nitpicking, since those were all really specific situations on the verge of divine interventions that could have not be foreseen by Horus. One big mistake I could come up with though - performing all this while still not being certain about legions like White Scars and Thousand Sons. First one proved to be a blessing for loyalists, since despite failed warrior lodges insurrection White Scars were able to support loyalists making their way to Terra, having Thousand Sons on their side would provide Horus with many abilities that could be used to prevent some of the unforeseen issues (Thousand Sons had a group that specialised in seeing future).
Angron is the only real mistake that Horus made at Istvaan III. Honestly, there should have been many more Garro's, Half-Heard's and Tarvitz' among the Legions than there were - Astartes who were not only still loyal, but turned AND acted when the betrayal happened - but we have to take it as a part of the setting that these were effectively the only 3 (and those under their direct command) who were willing to act on their loyalty to the Emperor. Accepting it as fact is to accept the degree of understanding these Primarchs had over their legions, where effectively the ONLY mistake that was made was the Half-Heard - and without Keeler to literally tell him what to do, he probably would have followed Horus. Garro wasn't trusted by Mortarion, but couldn't be sent down due to injury. And Tarvitz was supposed to be in the first wave, but found a way to stay in orbit to find out what was going on. So really, none of those were mistakes. As for what to do about Angron...? The only thing I can think of is not having him there at all. The World Eaters? Yes. Angron? No. But how? I can't see a legit reason. The World Eaters needed to be purged, and you can't do that without Angron present - that's a massive red flag for everyone. So... maybe LITERALLY Babysitting Angron would have been the best idea. Have Angron stay with Horus during the action, and then when things didn't go as planned, he was LITERALLY within arms reach of Horus for Horus to grab him by the scruff and say "NO! STAY!"?
It's true overall the traitors did a pretty impressive job of getting almost every loyalist in one place. Yeah probably with Angron that would be the only way to be sure...
Think the spear could have caused Valdor to go into the ( pocket) warp n become the king in yellow maybe Russ is with him. Hope we get a bit more narrative nxt year
That's just Angron though no matter if pre or post Istavan III. Him an Kurze should've either been sequestered and therapized or gotten the 2nd and 11th treatment shortly after discovery.
It was the biggest the imperium had encountered up to that point, but it was not the biggest of all time. I think that would be the Beast, which came after the heresy. How Ghazkull would compare to it I'm not sure.
More homework would be cooler: Russ = Dionysian Spear (made by the emperor himself) Russ = Scronspitter (re-made by Vulcan) Russ = Maledica Nocterum (sword from the age of strife said to go through any armor) Russ = Armour of Elavagar (bleed energy, specific heat and kinetic potential from their surroundings when triggered, with the effect of creating an aura of murderous chill around the Primarch called killing frost) Lorgar = Illuminarium (Made by Ferrus) Lorgar = Archaeotech Pistol (age of strife it could fire micro-atomic munitions or searing kill-rays that draw power from a planet's magnetosphere.) Angron = Samni'arius (Demon blade) Angron = Black blade (Made by the dark mechancium) Angron =Gore father and Gorechild (were amongst the most potent weapons known amongst the relics of the primarchs) Perturabo= Logos Armour (Yes it was armor but it actually could slave his space marines to his will that is a huge weapon) Perturabo= Forgebreaker (He did get it during the heresy so technically his) Perturabo= Wrist bolter ( Self made, able to punch through Space Marine battle plate with plasmic armour-piercing warheads which used the victims' body mass as bio-thermic fuel. probably the most effective weapon against the tryanids) Perturabo = Tormentor (custom made shadow sword tank technically should be discounted he wouldn't have it with him at all times but it was a bane blade shadow sword converted to primach carrying size and scale super heavy.) The lion (probably the hardest to quantity because he had an extensive cache of forbidden weapons including a pistol that could erase objects at a quantum level) Lion = the Excindio (Given to him by the emperor himself the lion and 5 of them wiped out an entire planet of highly advanced humans) Hes more but all of them I discount and standard fare but if brings them your fucked. Dorn = The Voice of Terra (made by the custodes specifically for dorn it would have been up there) That said a lot of the others got a pretty raw deal under the christmass tree :(
Thanks, but there is only so much I can fit into one video and some judgement calls have to be made. See my follow up video for more on weapons that may be more powerful but didn't make the list for various reasons. (link pinned at the top of the comments)
@@GrimDarklore77More to the point, the Excindio, as an example, was not a personal weapon. It was a legion of Men of Iron, true AIs from the revolt against mankind. The Lion, as the First and the prototype of his brothers, was given command of many devastating weapons systems, platforms, and outright threats to the stability of the galaxy itself.
anybody but, Angron, Perturabo, Konrad Vulcan because he loves me Sangunius because I love him Corvus because I might get powers, the ability to go unnotice or whatever the fuck Corvus was during when he was hunting word bearers
Glad I was suggested this! I’m just a passive fan of the lore for the past couple years, and you taught me a lot that I never knew about the primarchs. Subbed and thanks!
Hello and thanks for watching! If you liked this video or are wondering "what about the Spear of Russ" or "Surely the Sword of the Emperor has to be number one?" Well check this video out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-f-rUXdJn5SU.html Thanks.
I don't care about the Alpha Legion and their shenanigans and that extends towards their primarch/s (or maybe that's what I want people to think) but the Pale Spear is awesome, of all the baseline weapons they all had (not counting gifts of the Emperor or Chaos tainted stuff) I think that the best or close to be.
