Theres been a few times in my life where music came out, and no one ever matched it again. Fred Thordendal's solo career is like that, even Meshuggah somehow pales in comparison. I cant name a single of the big "progressive metal" bands on tour right now who take you this far outside of planet earth. Im referring to bands like Periphery, Born of OSiris, etc not classic prog acts that are still going
Is he a good player - yes, does have his own (lead) sound - No he doesn’t. Is he a Holdsworth clone- yes. It is well-known that Holdsworth HATED Holdsworth clones. Just a statement of fact. He thought it was wasted effort and it didn't add anything new creatively. There is a difference between being influenced by a player to find your own voice and just becoming consumed by, and imitating a player. The problem is Holdsworth's style of playing is very alluring and desirable if you have that kind of technical ability to play legato. It's not just the legato though. Phrasing etc all come into it too. Bill Connors (of return to forever fame) did the same thing. He use to sound like Bill Connors and then was seduced by Holdsworth sound and end up being a clone. I have an interview where Holdsworth actually says this. Me, if I could play legato like that, I too would be a clone. I would not be able to resist.
Surely, that is why Fredrik never continued to play like this, despite thousands of fans begging him to for decades. It's pretty far fetched to call _him_ a clone. But there is something to be said about how inherently "superior" Allan's playing was. If we're talking and the grand scheme of phrasing and playing tonally and in rhythm, this is something that has been studied academically interinstrumentally. Oscillating phrases with lots of carefully spaced silence is a common factor in accomplished players and composers across the board. There are small margins between what people call "Holdsworth style" and what is simply good musicianship. But it's undoubtedly the harmonic language and playful metre of Allan's music that people mean to draw attention to. I personally believe that trying to harmonise consistently "outside" in any situation is a frantic attempt to unchain oneself from the stale convention of popular music. Allan did this intentionally, no doubt. And I applaud others who do the same. After a decade of this I've found that "clone" is such a restrictive term, which captures only a very small sample of players. I don't think Allan himself even realised that it was in the nature of his endeavour to repel such players. Although his guest work is absurdly popular, his solo work is really only accessible to listeners of a very strong caliber in the first place. Not even (or perhaps particularly not) classically trained musicians can easily get into his esoteric bottom-up approach to writing. And thus, most of the strong potential for clones was excluded by default. Insofar as copying somebody's lead tone is noteworthy, many years of guitar heavy music has taught me humility for the limitations of the instrument. Beyond high gain amplifiers and effects, technique does matter the most. But the former influences the latter, as it turns out experienced arrangers and mixing engineers have learned that distortion makes it impractical to project many types of harmonies without sacrificing separation; i.e. it's irresponsibly bad practice to choose the wrong phrasing for your tone when fitting together a band in a studio or noisy room, lest the product become unintelligible. And you can call that sterile behaviour, but it's something musicians all learn over time. And legato is one way to mitigate this conflict. Surely, if Holdsworth himself was not obsessed with classical acoustic instruments like woodwind, he may have chosen a cleaner tone on lead for his mature career, and consequently played less legato and therefore been forced to make room for the less controlled profile by toning down the "jazziness" and outsideness of his chord progressions. His music would have been completely different, and much closer to the opposite side of the spectrum, which arose with rock and roll and jazz in the 50s, both of which aimed to distance themselves from controlled arrangements as classical music did. As you trace his roots, you find Allan has his background in the early prog in the 60s, which reintroduced many of the classical approaches that went missing in songwriting in the prior decades. That is partly why his style is so deliberate; simple, yet extremely ornamental. And prog metal slowly grew out of the same roots that evolved in the 70s. They eventually began to merge, and now, in 2022, I am seeing multiple kiddie bands from 10-20 years ago branch out and incorporate elements from various non-metal genres, as the classical kids did to prog rock 50 years ago.
@@___xyz___ Some nice appraisal Marie. I must admit, when I made this comment I wasn’t familiar enough with his playing to make a fully informed appraisal. My comments were hasty and I can now recognise that Fredrik definitely has his own distinctive voice on the guitar, no question about it. He has had a big impact on modern guitarists and anyone who gives props to Holdsworth is OK in my book. I really do admire and respect him and Meshuggah for achieving great success on their terms with no compromise. Let’s face it, If Bill Bruford gives them credit then that is an amazing endorsement from an amazing musician. May they continue to have success. Great guitarist, great band.
This is really nicely done. Please continue the legacy (side project?) with some great guys like Anthony Crawford, Skulli or Jimmy Johnson and Husband, Coliaiuta or Wackerman.
Allan Holdsworth and Fredrik Thordendal needs to do a collab together, it'd be out of this world For those who'd doubt, i know it accounts for nothing, but i once saw on Ron Jarzombek's site a pic of him(Ron) along with Allan I know it could turn to reality AND IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN!
amazing song looks like the face he makes when he's in the zone playing his guitar or the face he makes when he's about to bust a nut on the women he's having sex with !!! l , but i respect Fredrik more after listening to this song thanks for the upload !!
+Nightmaroid I'd also say that Fredrik tends to be a bit more "polished" in his writing, if that makes sense. As in Allan tends to go really crazy for extended periods of time, seemingly leaving all boundaries behind, which is great in and of itself but with Fredrik's writing I think it fits better into whatever overall concept a song might have. I found a couple guys here and there emulating his style and felt like this about some of them. It's a bit like Allan was the pioneer, the guy who had the ideas and went to new places and now others pick that up and keep refining it.
luketube you should listen to Allan Holdsworth's song "Low Levels, High Stakes" his solo is very "in" the lines, very emotional and showcasing how much he really did know about theory. I feel when Allan would play "out" he was really speaking his own language at that point, like real jazz musicians;) RIP the Master. Thordendal is my all time Holdsworth influenced guitar player besides Nico Stufano. But No one has brought the Heavy like Meshuggah
I bet you were never here in Hamburg, where everybody plays in a band but just 3-4 of 10000 Bands does it by love of music, the rest tries to get famous and just take all the riffs from good bands, and are a bunch of closeminded dick heads, who think, and i quote this"victor wooten is a guitarist, and animals as leaders has shitty guitarist, they play the most boring music i ever heard." Metal heads are not closemyinded my arse, i had to many ppl being shit to me in the metal scene-
FO SHO TG1154! I would by a Feddy T album in a Hot second! Both his, Morgans and Meshugga's Time signatures and temps iz Outstanding Brilliance. I curious if he has Hex pickups in his 8String Fiddles. Awesome Musicians! (>xO)
