I know this is a long shot but, can you guys please do a cvt technique on Kurt Cobain, specifically About A Girl Unplugged? I've done hundreds of hours of research on you tube, watched every single cover anyone has done , there's a few really good ones like Best Friends Band, i cannot for the life of me figure out how Kurt is so relaxed but so raspy and compressed on EASY FRIEND, EAR TO LEND, FIT THIS SHOE ETC... I Can sing quite a few nirvana songs but About A Girl is just not working for me and my understanding . Bottom line, i don't want to mimic but i can't shout these parts or do them relaxed in any way I've tried so far. Thank you😊
@RockVoxYT of course!! I know there's thousands of other singers you could do but I've never heard anyone fully explain kurt's vocals, they only ever show how to add grit lol, there's way more than just grit, there's placement, what's going on in the throat, compression? I would really appreciate the help 🙏 ☺️
this is great. you two always have such fantastic content. thank you. i'd love to see more short (or extended!) analysis of any of the following classic singers: stevie wonder, paul rodgers, sam moore (sam & dave), kelly holland (cry of love), robert plant modern singers: chris stapleton, marcus king, ryan shaw, jarrod lawson, marc broussard thanks again!
Daryl Palumbo from Glassjaw, Anthony Green from Circa Survive or Kyo from DIR EN GREY; Daryl has a way of phrasing things where you think he said one word but it either literally was a different word or intentional mispronounced because he often plays with the lyrics on purpose or obfuscates on purpose, and it even changes during live shows, "Denial is a river in Egypt" like in the song Trailer Park Jesus, Anthony because his high timbre is incredible and I think someone with a different voice would struggle to get the same mood or vibe even if trying it the same way for the same songs and Kyo because the vocal variety is just insane, I'm not even sure which song to consider because it changes heavily over 20 years, as in, like completely different eras and now they're heavy as hell but live he does some insane vocalization but it's mostly in Japanese, so maybe that makes it more interesting considering their vowels & language structure.
Thank you! You can learn to sing like this! We weren't born with it. Both of us spent countless hours over many years developing our technique and style. It's like learning to play an instrument, you can't expect to pick up a violin for the first time in your life and immediately play Flight Of The Bumblebee at an insane tempo. Singing might seem more mystical because you can't directly see what's happening inside, but ultimately it's all about making the right movements at the right time, same as playing an instrument!
Great to see you guys back! A request here: Jon Oliva from Savatage. For example songs like Gutter Ballet, Summer's Rain, Streets, If I Go Away, When the crowds are gone, ...
One of the singers I feel most perplexed by from a CVT perspective is Chester Bennington. The choruses of Crawling and Lying from You are good examples. Such vowel freedom! And with what feels like pretty ample metal throughout! Is he just using curbing on the full-metallic-incompatible vowels, e.g. "conFUSing" in Crawling, but getting it to sound so metallic through distortion? Would love to hear your thoughts, either in a comment or a video 🙂
Thank you! We have already recorded the upcoming video, but I think this is a strong contender for one of the near future ones as that's a really interesting example! I think your analysis is really good, but there is a way to make the OO vowel a bit more metallic - don't think so much OO, but think EW (as if you were disgusted and saying EWWWW). The back of the tongue will sit on the upper molars. It works fantastic as a direct replacement for an OO without sounding weird and you can get it to sound in line with all of the other Edge vowels. That's what I hear him do, but I'll demonstrate it and explain in more detail when we get to that example! Ivan
Awesome to see you guys again! My suggestion for a next one is Slipknot - Before I Forget The vocals from Corey Taylor on this one are gold - specially on the verses (so many different textures!)
Oooh, Gildenlow is one of my all time favorites and I'd love to do that at some point, but I think we'll cover some more mainstream vocalists first probably
You two are just awesome! 🤘🥰 I would like to hear vocal analysis from both of you but in that case it would be a 7 hours long video as you two are like chameleons 😂😁 I feel you can do almost anything! Thank you for another lovely video!
Hello, I am delighted with your channel and the knowledge about CVT that you give on it. I have a question. If reduce Edge and Overdrive can be "conditionally" 1% metal and 1% density, like curbing, then their difference will be in the brighter, more open and "loud" sound of reduce Edge and Overdrive, as you said in previous videos, but then what distinguishes them on an anatomical level, except settings in the larynx. As far as I understand, something is changing in the vocal folds, which creates a loud character of sound even with minimal values of metal and density. Thanks again for your videos!
That's a rather complex question, but remember that everything with the voice is a gradient. "1% metal" is a perceptual description of what we hear and doesn't have a clear threshold. The borders are fuzzy. All of the parameters that we usually see for metal (increased supraglottic narrowing, higher subglottic pressure, lower airflow, stronger adduction...) will change gradually towards a distinctly metallic sound and where exactly we draw the border is more about individual perception. If we're talking about the difference between reduced density Overdrive and Edge compared to Curbing, I would say that one of the defining characteristics is a larger mouth and jaw opening creating a higher first formant for RD Overdrive and Edge. If you meant reduced metallic, but fuller density Overdrive and Edge, then the difference is also the absence of thyroid tilt in the FD Overdrive and Edge conditions. I hope that answers your question! Ivan
@@RockVoxYT Thank you so much for the detailed answer! I would like to clarify with regard to RD Overdrive and Edge in comparison with Curbing. Suppose there is a situation in which both RD Overdrive/Edge and Curbing have the same amount of metal and density. Are there any changes in the vibration of the vocal folds in RD Overdrive/Edge compared to Curbing (perhaps they close more tightly, closer to M1) or do the vocal folds in RD Overdrive/Edge vibrate the same way as in Curbing (something in between M1 and M2), and screaming is character achieved mainly by creating a higher first formant? (provided that the amount of metal and density in them are the same)
I believe that the difference is mainly in the laryngeal gestures and therefore the acoustic and resonatory characteristics rather than the vocal fold vibratory characteristics. However, there's a larger paper on density coming out soon which might answer that to some degree. I also have a large data set collected for my research project that I plan on analyzing that has EGG data recorded, so it's possible to compare the vibratory patterns of those conditions, but that sort of analysis hasn't been finished yet and I can't report any findings yet. Ivan
Yup, that's another variation on the same idea! I sometimes use that with singers too as sometimes the results can end up slightly different between the two and people find one or the other leads to distortion more easily
Do you have falsetto possible in every mode or is it just a neutral variation ? Because in some of the exercise of overdrive and edge in the CVT app it seems to me that the guy singing goes into falsetto around C5 but keeping the charactestics of the modes.
Only Neutral is possible in falsetto. I'd need to listen back to the specific example in the app, but it's possible that those are very old examples that date before the introduction of falsetto in CVT
Yo guys, I was wondering since there is no "mixed voice" in CVT how do we classify the way Sting sing Roxanne. Is it curbing or Edge with reduced density ? Or something else ? The song is so high I can't figure it out and sing it myself.
He is definitely singing mostly in reduced density there! There is some Curbing, some RD Edge and some RD Neutral depending on his volume and vowel on the specific part! Ivan
He does sing quite a lot in reduced density, which is characterized by the held back character. He'll switch between different RD modes while singing, but practicing Curbing is certainly a good first step in that direction!
Hey! That was requested several times, so I think it's on our shortlist! We haven't made new videos in over a year, but we might come back with some shorter clips soon.
Thank you very much! We are meeting next week to talk about how to simplify our process as we're both quite busy and then it's hard to find time to make new videos!
Hey guys! After some time (years) trying to understand all of this, I am finally starting to develop some decent reduced-density sounding. As I probably never used edge and rd-edge in my life before and that feels very new to me, I am just wondering if it is expected that I feel the muscles under my chin, the masseter and subocccipitals like they are working out. There is no uncontrolled tension, it's just that it feels like my jaw never opened that much before. There is no pain whatsoever, just to be clear. And if I go for a fuller density sound, it requires much less strength in these muscles, but I can still feel that they're activated. Does it sound expected/correct? Should I get these muscles jacked so it will be easier to sing in this configuration? lol I suppose that will happen naturally of course Thanks for all! You guys were/are extremely helpful in my learning path.
Hey! Very glad to hear you found our stuff helpful! Concerning the activation of those muscles, I find that when they get overly active, it's often because the singer is unconsciously pushing the jaw outwards a bit (protruding the jaw). Try focusing on opening the jaw down and back a bit and see if it helps release some of that tension. On the other hand, if it doesn't feel uncomfortable or too tense, doesn't cause you strain or wear your voice out even with extended use, I wouldn't worry about it too much! Best, Ivan
oh am glad to read that ! your content is very valuable. id buy you guys a coffee, if you had buttons for that. ... ☺️ nevertheless, i surely willget in touch with the both of you, screaming masters. starting with mr.perry. thanks for being out there and providing guidance !!!
Are you familiar with kargyraa? Everyone says it comes from the false vocal folds, but when a lot of people do it, it sounds more like arytenoids to me. When you did the clearing of the throat example for rattle, a kargyraa like sound came out. Are some people doing false fold distortion and some arytenoid rattle?
@@RockVoxYT I'm very sorry, I didn't receive it. I have many email addresses, but I usually use them to register some accounts. May I know which email address it was sent to? Can I find it?
The Lamb one! Or maybe I'm making a wrong connection and maybe you're not the person that I thought you were, in which case I apologize for the mix up 😅
Shawn Mendez is probably the only nasal voice where I think he sounds great, his voice sounds very interesting to me. I don’t get if it’s just his structure that helps with with that tone, it’s nasa but not super annoying, his live performances he sounds really perfect in a lot of ways to me. Around 2:24 he does the impression and it is similar but idk, shawns voice seems to have more depth and complexity , it’s pretty cool. I’m a rock singer and I learned from an opera singer and frankly I did develop a range and power but my voice was just so nasal and loud and I didn’t like my tone. I also realize I was using a lot of compression for certain belts or grind when I sang something raspy like “burn it down” from Linkin park where he digs in vocally. I had to be so loud tho to sing and I never liked that , I hurt my ears with tinnitus for practicing in my car at those volumes . I feel when my voice is very neutral sounding and kinda lame , but when I tired distortion it sounded cool throwing it in there but I also felt I lost my range and got fatigued quick. Is it normal for fatigue to set in faster with distortion if it’s safely done? It was odd bc my teacher just taught me open and neutral singing sounds , bel canto, Atleast that’s how I describe my tone with her, open , neutral with nasality. But on my own is where I really tried my stylistic stuff since she was such a micromanager . It really watered down my style frankly but also gave me the sheer horse power to belt and then get raspy with a super nice grain. I fee I have to maybe train like that in order to get that drivers again. I am curious about cvt but I don’t think there are any teachers around me. I kinda envy that light and easy Ed sheeran or pop singer approach, they sing like they are almost effortlessly speaking melody , whereas I’m used to compression and sounding almost too big and dense at times. I never sounded like an opera singer but I still have that sorta approach where everything has to be loud and no airyness so it just feel kinda flat . That being said I also heard airy vocals will wear out your cords easily and can cause issues.
Should I consider using more resistance when I sing? When I use netural, I always feel like I'm moving too fast and I might need resistance, but I don't know how to add it.
@@RockVoxYT in middle part of voice is without，but when i go up it will become n with air ，it is not intentional.i can't control my voice, just like blow out my vocalcord,i want close but i just tight my throat.At the same time,when i try to close my vocalcord ，the creak will appear
I'd try to work less as the first step! Don't do as much "support" because you're probably creating a too high pressure and ending up squeezed and breathy at the same time!
I have a question Why do i have jaw tension in curbing? Or my lower jaw wants to come front. It just takes alot of energy to always be on extreme support of overdrive.
Jaw tension is often caused by locked support. Is your abdomen getting very tense and firm at the same time? Try softening it up and gradually moving inwards through the phrase in a smooth movement. Another thing to try is the so-called "falling asleep on the bus" exercise - swing your head back with your mouth open as if you fell asleep sitting down. Put your index finger vertically across the mouth opening touching the upper front teeth and slowly roll your head back until it's upright again. Keep your finger in place and try singing your phrase. Your lower jaw should not be pushing on your finger. You can find a graphic of this exercise in the full CVT app or book if it's not clear what I mean in text. Ivan
Perry said he was tightening his abdomen and keeping it out, which increases the support resistance, but isn't it wrong to keeping out your abdomen in the support? Shouldn't it be pulled in the abdomen?
My teacher told me that mixing is a technique, a technique that goes from low to high without a break, without that abrupt point of falsetto. But this technique can be applied to strong sounds, balanced sounds, soft sounds. Not a specific sound
As stated in the video, there are many different definitions for mixed voice. Some make more sense than the others. Every specific technique has a sound because a sound is the product of that technique. If you change something about the technique, the sound will change. You can say that mixed voice is a collection of sounds with some common property. That works for me! As a logic driven creature, I'd love to know what specific property that is and that's where answers get rather flaky. Being able to go through the range without a break is a result, not a single property. And there are various different ways of accomplishing that. One way is keeping the vocal folds thick and tracking the pitch by keeping the lowest vocal tract resonance an octave above the note you're singing. That would be the so called belting approach and would correspond to fuller density Overdrive and Edge in CVT. Another is to stop tracking at some point, thin out the vocal folds and press them together a little bit more (feeling like you're holding back a sneeze). That would be the CVT reduced density and that's the approach that I see taught the most often as mixed voice. You could also gradually thin out towards falsetto as you go higher, so that instead of an abrupt break, you're easing into it. That approach is often combined with the second one for teaching the so called mixed voice. Those aren't the only possible options, just several strategies that allow going through the range without a break.
@@RockVoxYT Yes, that makes perfect sense. I think mixing is more bad than good. I remember when I first started learning, my voice was very strong, and then a teacher said that I didn't have a head voice in my voice, and I didn't know what a head voice was, and then I followed suit and made my voice softer to blend, which I now think is probably reducing the density of my voice. It seems completely irrational now, the same way that I didn't sing with my diaphragm.
I think good or bad is a taste preference. Different sounds need different strategies. The issue I see, which may come across as a bias against "mixed voice" on my part is that many teachers end up teaching reduced density Neutral to singers who actually want fuller density Edge or Overdrive. Or in a more common terminology, you could say they teach a balanced mix where belting is more stylistically appropriate and what the singer wants. So there's nothing wrong with the strategy or the sound they teach, it can be a very important skill to have, but in some contexts it's not leading to the intended or appropriate sound!
@@RockVoxYT Yes, more often than not, a lot of guys like a strong voice. That method may not work, but it works for someone who likes a gentle voice. CVT has advantages for thick vocal mode, but it does not seem to be as efficient as some other methods for soft sounds.
Yes, there should be no discomfort around distortion. The two most common mistakes I find are: 1. Pushing too much air out and getting a breathy sound. Focus on the sensation of holding back the breath for this. 2. Not enough twang and using a rather dull sound color with no brightness! To do distortion properly, you need twang which will manifest itself as a bright and sharp element in the timbre (even when the overall sound color is dark). Ivan
