Mountain bike suspension improvements are our game. Proudly based in Whistler, we design, test and develop products on some of the roughest terrain in the world, so you can expect unrivalled performance and durability. Proudly manufactured and assembled in Whistler too, our products are further developed by in-house dyno testing, in-field data acquisition and testing, and we offer industry-leading proprietary tuning techniques not found anywhere else.
well if you'd really like to mess damping up one could play with fluid dynamics if you'd design a lowspeed circuit that has laminar flow at low shaft speeds, the effective flow rate can be higher at a given force ... just the flip-point into turbulant flow would typicly mean a really harsch transition in Damping force.... unless you create really fancy difusors on your ports ... but there we likely get into metal 3D printing
You give the best explanations EVER! Can't find anything like it for street motorcycles - in particular, no one does a great job of covering hi speed for street riding.
@VorsprungSuspension thank you for the video. very helpful to see interaction between HSR and LSR. Question: is it safe to do this tuning method on Cane Creek Kitsuma. My worry is that range of adjustments is quite wide on that shock and if I completely close the HSR circuit I will damage the shock or decrease the longevity of it or internal components, since oil will be forced to flow mainly through the LSR circuit. Thank you. :bow:
In the intro you say that we don't care about the leverage ratio in terms of shock doing the work, but doesin't it affect how rebound works? If the leverage ratio is higher, the rebound will be weaker, so I suspect that it will not be as fast as with lower ratios. Am I figuring it out right?
My head is spinning! Rate of flow...volume of flow... spring rate (bend point) of shim stack... So in depth and complex Steve. Thank you for the tutorial
Why does my 34 2017 Fox Air Shaft look different? There is no such metal plate above the rubber "olive", instead, there is a metal plate right under the upper part and the "olive" is just "aline" on the shaft. The rest looks the same, with the bigger silver thing at the lower end. Why are the air shafts so different? Mine is from a Scott Spart (C8S6 is the ID) and is shouldn't be custom, besides the decals.
Hi, Wonderful video. I have a Trek Fuel ex * 2016 with this type of rear shock. I wonder if the service kits for it (oil seals, plastic rings, rings, etc) are the same as for the same measurements models without the reactive system? Any idea. Thanks in any case.
Alot would disagree that sag isn't important on an mtb but riding sag is even more important, whare you sag sits when riding the trails etc a pro was just explaining all this in last video
Fox do a shame upgrade if you go to them in England completely rebuild your shim stack but these are 38 performance elite they do have issue's compared to a normal fox factory 38! Someone jsut done a 50 hour rebuild on one he's not impressed I run a 38 170mm with fit4 damper love it!
Really great video! I´m looking for a substitute for the Fow Red 10wt for my shock damper and this video helped me understand what´s important. If you know a possible replacement product that would be very much appreciated.
Does the preload affect my lowspeed rebound ? I felt like I was between 2 clicks of lsr and increased just 2 clicks of preload now the slower setting feels just on Point.
Thanks for the video. So dropping a couple of teeth on the front chainring really is of no concern apart from perhaps a slightly less active rear suspension when pedalling.
As a heavy (110kg kitted) rider on an ebike who likes to jump, big drops and smash down heavy hills, do you recommend the Smashpot or the Secus? Currently have a ZEB select, and will upgrade internals depending on with I coil, or if I get secus, I will upgrade to buttercup internals as well. Love the pop/ playfullness of an airspring, but wondering if coil would be better suited for my weight? I just dont want to lose the predictability of an airspring and bottom out on big hits.
I ride said Nicolai G16 Large for 6,5 years now and can confirm that there is weight on the hands also the stack is super low compared to the reach. I‘m 192cm and should be riding XL, but I‘m glad I went for L at that time. I had switched to 38mm fork offset early on to get more weight on the front wheel and I also brought the bars up quite a bit. My takeaway is that FC/RC balance is key. That means if you want to have a easy manualing bike that is also balanced you‘ll have to go for a shorter reach as well. Assuming a manual benefits from shorter chainstays, shorter reach and higher stack it seems to me that the shorter reach approach can easily backfire by overdoing it. It took the Black Friday sales opportunity to buy two Propain Spindrift 27,5“ frames M @ 450mm reach and L @ 475mm reach both @ 435mm chain stays to figure this out. I will also go with a 75mm riser bar because I’m 192cm tall with a rather normal 86cm RAD, and I think shorter reach with a high stack fits me better. Thanks a lot for the superb content! BR Tobias
Hi, how do I calculate the speed of a spring? Should its stiffness be divided by its compression stroke or should the mass that presses on the spring be divided by the compression stroke?
@@VorsprungSuspensionThanks, had the same question. Perhaps you could provide a new video explaining why, show us some dyno data, and what the tuning/setup process looks like for those dampers? Thanks!
@@VorsprungSuspension Hey steve, it's Kevin (kidwoo). You mentioned sideways mounts on shocks, I'm picturing a fastener running perpendicular to traditional...like front to rear? Just didn't know what you meant.
Great video, really enjoy your content, as a long term Mtber its nice to see someone that can explain the complexity of suspension and make it make sence. Cheers Steve 🤘
Thank you Steve. Been chasing my tail trying to get a good set up playing with hsr and lsr. Can finally understand how it works. Can’t wait to try this method
Hi, thanks for perfect educative series. I watched all your videos, however I still could not grasp one concept. How negative spring works, why it helps with initial stroke at all. Currently, DVO makes forks with adjustable negative coil preload. I have a fork with interchangeable negative coil and tunable negative spring preload (SR SANTOUR AURON). But I have no idea how to set up that for best results. Manufacture does not provide any setup information. They provide just chart with negative spring rates vs. positive air pressure. No explanation, no theory behind it. DVO at lest says: “OTT allows the rider to fine tune the small bump sensitivity without affecting the mid-stroke or end-stroke. As a general rule of thumb, the heavier or aggressive rider will use more air pressure & more OTT. A lighter or less aggressive rider will use lower air pressures and less OTT.” However, it is preload, not spring rate. Does higher spring rate of negative and positive spring result in lower overall break away force? How progressive negative spring influence fork travel, ... Could you please shad some light in to this? Thank you.
How do you calculate critical damping and can you please suggest some book for more details from where you are explaining the things... Waiting for any answer
Hello. Love the video I do have a question. I screwed up and while rebuilding my float shock, my rather large clumsy dog, ran around the corner and knocked my table over, which in turn knocked everything off the table. So my shim stack went everywhere. I did take a video of the boostvalve area all together. It was still together when it fell over. So I don’t have any idea of the order they go. I’ve tried fox and other places, and either they didn’t know, fox for ex. Or just would not tell me. I’ve looked all over the web for images specific to my shock tune. But have not been able to find anything. Also, my local bike shops I’ve called don’t even mess with rebuilding shocks. You seem very knowledgeable and was wondering if you know where I could look to find the order of the shims. The shock is a fox float RP23 boostvalve with rebound XL. velocity L and boostvalve 150. Thx you
This is a great video, can you please clarify "minimum" and "maximum"? I'm assuming minimum resistance, aka fully open, and maximum resistance, aka fully closed? Closed being fully turned clock wise to close, and open being fully turned counter clock wise? I just want to make sure I understand your lingo correctly.
With the rebound, how does the damper mechanically know to go into high speed vs low speed. Does it know that the high speed compression circuit opened up so while that is open it holds open the high speed rebound circuit open as well? Or how does it know when to open the high speed rebound?
Great video! Do I get you right here that the more fitness I have (ability to stabilize and dampen my body=main part of the unsprung mass) the less rebound dampening I can ride and get closer to an optimal dampening for the sprung mass? Thanks! BR Tobias
Not really actually. The rider's ability to respond is heavily frequency-limited to well below the frequencies the wheel can move at, regardless of fitness. The optimum amount of damping isn't just for the wheels.
I confused the two masses… Sprung mass = rider + “bike” Unsprung mass = “wheels” What I meant was that the more fit you are the better you can dampen the sprung mass. Then you can set the rebound more close to the optimum dampening for the unsprung mass (faster rebound). What do you think about that? Do Pro riders run their rebound faster or slower than the average guy? Thanks!
