I have the Vivobarefoot Primus Lite Knit in size 44 (M11) and they fit me perfectly (I think they might be a bit narrow but the stretchy fabric makes up for it). What size in the Tolos would you recommend for me? I contacted them and they told me their size M11 is almost identical to the Vivobarefoot M11, but they won't provide the length of the insole. I'm afraid the lack of stretchy fabric will make them too narrow and I live in Sweden so returning them is not an option. Thanks in advance! PS: You own size compared to Vivobarefoot would probably help in my decision too. :)
I took a few measurements (tools - Vivo Primus Trail) and it seems they're within 3mm of each when it comes to length. (Note I measure externally as insoles can differ drastically. Now considering there are material/sole differences, you could say they're roughly the same length. Where they differ is in midfoot width, but that'd taking measurement at the outsole extremes, which again your feet can push out over the outsoles, which is ok for some, and not for others. Subjectively, I think they fit almost the same. The only difference is the big toe space. The Tolos taper just a tiny bit more aggressively. If you want to email hello@barefootrunreview.com I can send pictures and give you more information. :) I hope that helps!
I think it could be a really good option for softer ground grass, but maybe a little too aggressive for a synthetic turf. It'd still work, but I'd opt for something like the Feldom in that situation.
My wide high volume midfoot fits nicely into these Calvers. Recently took them on a weeklong backcountry backpacking trip and they performed admirably. The sewn in outsole is the star of the show, and handled all kinds of terrain with aplomb. I did add the rock plate and thicker ortholite insole. Only fault of the Calvers is the tongue...no gusset, or even a tongue lace loop which I find to be a glaring omission on an otherwise excellent shoe. Nice review mate.
Do you think if you got US size 9 would the fit be better for you? I always have to get my true to size US size 7. Anything larger/bigger than a US size 7 cause the shoe to slip/ be sloppy for me.
For me the midfoot would likely have been more uncomfortable, but at the same time, the position of the rocker may have suited better. If I were to buy again, I'd still go with the US9.5 because I'd rather not cram my feet.
I'm a Korean runner who loves zero drops Your review was helpful Thank you I run about 10k 44m in Vibram v-trail 2.0 I am looking to buy a new pair of shoes to improve my time, escalante racer 2 or torin 7, what do you recommend? Or any other type of running shoe? I'd love your opinion
I'd stick to something lower stack like the Escalante Racer. The Torin will feel large and bulky compared with your Vibrams. For me the Racer would be my shoe of choice for racing right now.
Hi, thanks for these reviews, they are very useful. I have both the Escalante 3, which fits me well, and the Racer 1, which constricts my foot significantly on the top mid of the foot. How do the Esc4 and EscRacer2 compare to the previous iterarions in terms of midfoot volume? Also, I am thinking about trying thinner insoles, is there any brand that you recommend?
Either would fit similar, with the Escalante for being a little more forgiving due to the flexible material. At the same id still suggest some thinner insoles if your already know you have deeper feet. I always stick some Xero Shoes insoles in there which you can buy on their website. Usually work a charm! Just note the Escalante 4 is softer than previous iterations. If you want a firmer ride, stick with the Racer.
Which trail shoe from Altra would you say is closest to the Escalante 4? Got the escalante 4 as my first Altra and like it. Considering a trail equivalent now...
@@ryped89 for me it's the Altra Superior. Although they are not quite as soft as the Escalante 4. For me that's ok, I like that on a trail. If you want a similar stack height the Lone Peaks can work, they're just a little deeper in fit. I hope that helps!
@@barefootrunreview thanks. Maybe it will be better for me cause I'm heavy and would like to increase my mileage. Fingers crossed the 4's upper is as accommodating to my wide feet as the racer had been
I have an Escalante 3 that I worn out on the pinky side because I can spread my pinky really far apart. I found I don't need as much room for my big toe. My feet sit on the outer side of the toe box while there is plenty room on the inner side of the toe box. If I try to align with the toe box, the mid and rear feet won't fit. Do you have any recommendations that have similar stack height as Escalante 3?
@@yuanjiuli9167 if you've worn through the upper of the shoe, I would guess that you're rolling over the outside edge of the shoe, i.e. supination. Do you feel that's the case? A more balanced option would be the Escalante Racer 2, giving a more solid platform. But at the same time a secure upper that stops your foot from moving around in the shoe. That could be a good option.
@@barefootrunreview I do not have supination. My mid foot stays perfectly in the shoe. My outside toe can spread out at almost 45% and I have a small big toe. I prefer shoes with less support. I find a lot of shoes with support has pronation tendency. If a shoe's upper is too rigid, I will get callus for my pinky. I just want a shoe that has more toe room for pinky not so much for the big toe.
@@yuanjiuli9167 arh ok. My mistake. I'd struggle to suggest options with cushion, but if you look at more minimal options, Realfoot and Softstars could be great options for you.
This was super helpful! Thank you so much. I've worn barefoot shoes in my everyday life and a bit weightlifting for almost 3years now (Vivos, Wildlinge, Groundies, Feelgrounds), but I want to start running again, after a 6 year break. I'm unfit and am aprox. 5-10kg over my ideal weight. Are these Altras a good choice to start? I feel like my Vivos give me not enough cushioning, since I run mostly on the street and in the woods.
@@Moscririna you could start with any option. Vivo or Altra. Using a minimal shoe may mean you have to build up a little slower due to the extra forces your body may not be used to on the feet and lower legs, but at the end of the day, when starting to run again, building slowly is good no matter what shoes you're wearing. I have a course on my website if you want to check it out, otherwise I have a ton of advice too that may help. barefootrunreview.com good luck!
You were on point with the review. I had the Escalante 4, the shoe was softer and it used to bounce from side to side when picking up the speed. I didn’t like the breathability so I returned and got the racer 2. The shoe is firmer but it helped when picking up the pace and the upper has a snug fit on the mid foot to prevent the foot from sliding. The racer 2 is a better shoe imo. I’m thinking of getting a minimalist shoe to strengthen my feet. Do you think that I can strengthen my feet with Altra 0 drop shoes or do I need a minimalist shoes ?
Great! I'm glad they worked for you! I think both of your statements are true. - You can build foot strength in Altras - You can build more foot strength in minimal shoes! Personally, I advocate the careful use of minimal shoes to allow the body to adapt to forces without cushion. This allows specific areas of the feet and lower legs to strengthen. At the same time, we have to be careful to build up slowly and allow our tissues and bones to adapt to the higher stresses of minimal shoes. I write a lot more about this on my website, specifically this post. barefootrunreview.com/the-case-for-barefoot-running/ Feel free to ping me if you want more advice! I'm always happy to talk about this.
Recently just subscribed to your channel mostly running Luna sandals doing 100 mile hopefully this year but found out about 40 miles often on through the course is gravel so I wasn’t looking forward to that so I watch your thing on the temp. Check that out at the store, thinking about it. I had the size down. They felt OK so I was actually actually thinking maybe superior is good. A friend told me he said you won’t even tell the difference between the superior and the long peak and that might fit my running style a little better not sure any thoughts from anyone.
If you're used to Luna's, I'd suggest coming with the Superiors, or maybe the new (old remake) Altra King MT. The only thing to be careful with in the superiors is the depth, they're very shallow. I switch out the insoles out of the box to get more depth in the shoe. For me the Lone Peak doesnt fit my width, but at the same time, is sloppy in the heel. Underfoot there's just a little difference with the superior. Lastly. The Timp is a very different, solid and protective shoe. Nothing like your sandals. They can work for faster rocky terrain, but I'd assume they're not for you.
As also a barefoot shoe anyways runner, my Lumos like run up to like 20-30 miles but REI today and I seen these on special and they had one pair of my size so I put them on and they actually felt pretty good. What is the ground feel like probably almost nonexistent but the other thing is does the shoe feel soft underneath? I just return the innovates I hadmade me lose my balance a few times just curious
@@toddboucher3302 very little ground feel, and I'd say they're not too soft compared with other cushioned shoes. They have their place for fast rugged terrain. But for a barefoot runner they may be a bit too disconnected from the ground.
I would suggest the Escalante Racer 2. It's much more secure and stable for those lateral movements. I would fear the Escalante 4 could be a bit rolly for dynamic movements.
Thank you for the review. Escalante Racer works for because I can stretch out the front to accommodate my 2E bunion feet, but I have to size up for more toe height and pinky toe room. Are the Racer 2 and 4 wider and more accommodating than the Racer?
From what I remember from the OG Racer, sizing is the same. You could potentially jump over the TD Millers RU-vid channel and ask him there. I know he still has them side by side.
Thanks for the comparison, my understanding was that the foam was identical between the two models, just that the Racer 2 omits the strobel board and therefore is 2mm thinner. So the softness of the 4 probably just comes down to that strobel board. I am definitely enjoying my Racer 2s, they work well as a companion to the Rivera 4.
Marketing wise, the Ego naming is the same, but from the "feel", I believe they're different compounds. the midsole for sure feels softer. So I'm 95% it's not just the Doing a quick "thumb press" backs up what I'm saying too, removal of the strobel board. But I'd love to get verification on that! It could just be my bias.
how does the responsiveness of the escalante 4 compare with the racer? I sustained an injury to my ankle 2 years ago and have suffered with instability, the racer was excellent with giving stability and ground feel without being harsh, but I'm skeptical of the esc. 4 being too soft/spongy
I suggest sticking with the Racer 2. For me the Escalante 4 is soft. Sometimes I did feel like I was rolling around on the midsole, especially when I got tired.
@@barefootrunreview having to move from the Racers in the upcoming winter months unfortunately. the mesh upper means my feet get really cold as I use them for daily casual use, my foot can't tolerate conventional footwear I've just ordered Escalante 3s, do you have any recommendations that boast the same sweet spot between responsiveness and softness as the Racer and without the problems mentioned with the Escalante 3, be it Altra or otherwise would greatly appreciate it
Go up a half size. These are tight. Yes, it's because of the depth but that translates to width if you have a high instep (like me). Taking out the insole makes a difference but if I'd gone up a half size maybe this would not have been necessary. My Olympus 4s were way more comfortable and cost me the same money.
Thanks for the excellent YT reviews and website - both very good 👍 I would love a recommendation of a competitor to the Escalate Racer for me to try? Does anyone know of one? I have had three pairs of the original Escalante Racers and found the midsole breaks down too quickly. My ideal running shoe would be exactly half way between the Xero HFS 2 and Escalante Racer. Eg a bit more Cush than X HFS but more solid and durable than E Racer. Any ideas? Many thanks 🙏
Sure thing! The two shoes that come to mind are the Bahe Revive, and Lems Primal. Both sit at around 10mm in stack height, so remain flexible and somewhat minimal. The fit of the Bahe is a little deeper than all the shoes mentioned, so beware of that. Both have good width throughout the whole foot. Worth a look I think
The Racer 2 is a horrible update. The racer 1 was ok, I've ran thousands of kilometers in them. However it had one problem. It was a bit heavier than traditional lightweight trainers and way heavier than running flats. They were in fact the heaviest shoe in my rotation. They were heavier than my Asics Nooosa 14, which is ridiculous, given the noosa is a definitively non- minimalist shoe. However, the pros weighed out the cons. Zero drop and wide toe box, plus the flexibility was worth the extra weight. ....but here comes the racer 2. A slap in the face of all who loved the original racer. It is 249g in standard size. That is ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous
@@barefootrunreview Racer 1 EU43, 216g/218, Racer 2 EU43 249/251g It's ridiculous these are the heaviest shoes I have in my rotation. I also have the Metaspeed Sky, the the Asics tri Noosa 14, the Nike Alphafly 1, the Merell Vapor Glove 6 etc.all of which are lighter. I weighed all shoes on the same scale
Wow. I measured my racer 2's EU42.5 at 220g. I'm surprised that 1/2 size could contribute to that much weight gain. I wonder why yours are weighing much more. 🤔
@barefootrunreview p.s. I've returned them by now. Even if there was something wrong with my scale or my shoes, I didn't see the point in keeping something that's inferior to its predecessor in every respect...I have a pair of racer 1's that will last another 500k ...
I usually wear pretty minamislist trainers but bought a pair of these for my longer road runs where I want a bit of cushioning. All the reviews said they fit true to size but I have the same issue with the mid and fore foot width. I find the outside of my foot spills over the side and my pinky toe gets cramped up against the upper too, which is the absolute worst thing for running long distance in. Really disappointed because I like everything else about the shoe. I considered buying another pair half a size up but over-long shoes is not ideal for running in. It's a shame that altra only offers the wider fit on a couple models, and even then there's rarely enough stock to service the demand for them. Back to vivo for me.
Just finished walking the Camino Norte and Primativo wearing Lone Peak 8s . Perfect for that job 850km no blister issues whatso ever. Comfortable and light. Using Merino socks.
Much wider in the midfoot. I actually think Altra is fairly narrow in the midfoot. I have issues with many of their models, even the Long Peak. The toe box is similar to a new Esclaante, or Torin. And it's much deeper for me.
It's funny, because Altra claims that this is a return to the "Original" foot shape, but, especially given this different materials, it feels much tighter on my foot than the 2.5 or even the 3
The materials on the 2.5 were VERY flexible (too much in my opinion), so I can see why this felt more loose. Although I'm confused that the 3 would feel more loose. Even though the shape of the shoe is similar, the upper materials were stiffer and more fitted, this lead to a more shallow shoe too. Where do you feel the tightness specifically. Maybe there's an aspect we're missing that you've found.
@@user-xf4es7eh9y I generally, ignore the "FootShape" Altra advertises with, I believe it adds more to the confusion that it does to help. And with that, I think the Escalantes have been made with the same "shape" all this time, but what's changed is the upper and the midsole material. > But I heard the made 4 much firmer in the midsole, which.. it's like why? Where did you hear this? I'd consider the 4 much softer than the 3. But maybe not as soft as the 2.5.
What do you think of the insole that comes with both the Escalante and Escalante Racers? I hate them!!! They are weirdly squishy and make any ground feel impossible. I like the Escalates when worn with ‘normal’ insoles taken from other barefoot shoes. Have you tried reviewing the shoes with different insoles?
@@AndreS_22246that's an Altra thing. Most of their insoles are thick and squishy. I find they tend to flatten over time. I did try both models with a 3mm in sole, but felt I could get a better lockdown with the original insoles. And for me Fit comes first.
@@barefootrunreview thanks. Yes I agree about fit and lockdown, and that you need the correct ‘volume’ from the in sole to achieve that. I actually bought some quite hard EVA foam in 3mm thickness and cut an insole shape from that. So my ideal set up is: Escalante Racer, take out their insole, add my DIY 3mm layer and a Xero shoes insole. Sounds daft but I love it!! (Although I wish the Escalante was more durable…) Thanks for your excellent channel and website.
I looked forward to receiving my Tolos but I now have a pair of shoes which are totally useless and will have to land in the trashcan. Customer service couldn't care less, so unprofessional, they even remove negative reviews from their website!!!
@@Phoenix11720yes and what's your point? Does it mean it's not true or what? You would definitely see more negative reviews on their site if they wouldn't be so unprofessional to remove them. I want to make people aware, it's anyone's choice if they care or not about my comment...just sharing my bad experience
I don't care about the carbon plate, I just care if it fits. The regular Mont Blanc is too unstable and my foot rolls off the side easily, this looks like it might be better as it has the rubber around the toe box.
Thanks for the review. I have 2 pairs of the Escalante 3s - those were the first Altras I owned. I actually enjoyed them.😅 I was considering getting the Racer 2, but based on this and your Escalante 4 reviews, I think I'll stick with 'real' minimal shoes. My current go-to is the Xero HFS II. I wear them for workouts, some easy runs and races. Ran my current HM PB on them. Any thoughts on which other Xero might make a good companion shoe? Also, requesting you to review some Xeros on your channel
@@small_strides if the Escalante 3's work, stick with them! You'll find the cheap right now. :) And as long as you're pairing them with some more minimal I think you have a perfect rotation. If you head over to my website barefootrunreview.com, you'll find reviews for nearly all Xero Shoe options. But I've not got videos yet, because this is all new for me. For me the Xero shoes Speed Force II is great. Very minimal, that true Xero shape and lighter than anything else. The HFS II didn't work too well for me, it seemed a little stiffer and more cushioned than the typical Xero options. But that's a personality thing. The prio Neo can be a nice compromise between the HFS II and Speed Force II. Anyway. Hopefully that helps. Let me know if you'd like to know anything else!
@@barefootrunreview I love the escalante 3 - as sneakers/walking shoes, in winter, when I can't weat thin soles... but I'd never run in them - they are way too heavyvfor running
I've not personally tried the Magnifly 5, but I've tried ST's in the past, and Terraventure's. I'm really not a fan of the pronounced arch support they all had. From what I've heard that's true across the whole range. Because of that I decided not to review any more of their range. (I've only got so much time and money 😀 ) In generally, I noted that Topo's seemed to be a little wider in the midfoot, and had a little more depth than most Altra models. And the build quality seem to be better overall which I think would translate to a longer lasting shoe. I hope that helps a little! :)
What Altra have been doing with toe box size is strange. The Lone Peak and the Olympus are super spacious to the point my foot can slip around in there. The recent models of the Superior are so shallow what my toes catch on the upper. The Timp was the only one with a sensible toe box volume, if they're changing that one too I can't understand what's Altra's audience anymore. Super-spacious shoes for hikers and super shallow shoes for short-distance runners.... where are the Ultra runners gonna go? Topo Athletic? Too bad, because I always wished for a Vibram Timp.
I tend to agree, but like you say, there are still options in the Altra lineup. I personally make most of these options work, but still my favourite is the Superior, even though it's shallow. A quick switch of the insoles makes it comfortable for me. Have you tried anything like this? Otherwise, I avoid Topo because of the pronounced arch support. I don't think it belongs in shoes of this kind.
I love the Lone Peak 8 on the trails. For my road shoe, The Torin 7 is okay (had to go up half a size). But I really want to try out this shoe as a road running alternative. Keen to hear your review for the Altra Escalante Racer 2.
I think this would be a good pairing with the Lone Peak. The Escalante Racer may be a bit firm in comparison. But it's a great training tool either way. I love them.
I just got those, but it looks like they are not wide enough for me. Also, from what i compared sizes 10 vs 11 they have the same insole width, so that's weird. Currently I'm waiting for the escalante racer 2, because according to runrepeat they should be wider. What is your experience? Also do you have any other WIDE recommendations?
Which point of the shoe is not wide enough? I find the midfoot to be a bit snug. Just note that measuring via the insoles is not an accurate way of measuring the shoes, as they may use the same insole across different sizes. Maybe as you've found. Personally I've found the Escalante 4, and Escalante Racer 2 to be a very similar width, but with a bit more depth in the toe box. Overall, the sizing is similar, it's the feel where they differ the most. For wider options, I would suggest Bahe Revive, Lems Primal, but these are more minimal than the Escalante, so you'll have to decide if that works for you. I hope that helps!
@@barefootrunreview For me it's the transverse arch / just before the toes start + my pinky really wants freedom. Thanks for the recommendation i will check the Lems, they somehow did not pop up on my radar. I hope it will not be too minimal :) As for the insoles, the length is different, it's the with that was the same. Maybe it changes for other sizes but the width on 10/11 looked the same Thanks for help!
@@user-xf4es7eh9y considering we've mentioned companies use the same insoles in different sizes means we can use insoles to compare the size of shoes as you've found. That being said. I understand what you mean by Altras not being wide. The question is. At what point are the shoes wide. If we're talking about the midfoot, they are not. If we're talking about the forefoot and toe box, then yes they are. A simple visual check will shoe you the difference in toe boxes when comparing with Hoks and New Balance like you mention. And that brings to the point that Foot Shape, does mean wide. It means more room in the toe box, and less taper on either side of the toes. You do not see that in conventional shoes like new balance and hoka. What do you think?
@@user-xf4es7eh9y No idea how good/bad that data is, what they publish looks quite good. What I can confirm, escalante racer 2 is the widest shoe I could find (with cushioning). Checked quite a bit, including, Hoka, Topo, NB (1080 2e was my previous one). What is interesting racer 2 in 11 is even wider than an escalante 4 in 11.5. The only one that might be better is flux, but didn't try it.
I usually say, any insole that you have hanging around. Most altra insoles are around 4mm thick, which is quite thick for a insole. I use some Xero Shoes insoles normally, and I know you can buy them directly from Xero Shoes if you need them. I hope that helps!
@@zollox97 interesting. Because most of the foot beds in Altras are a rubberised tacky material, I've never tried them insole-less. I was worried about rubbing. What distances are you running in them?
@@barefootrunreviewrunrepeat measurements have most of Altra near the 5.5mm mark. That's thick, I tried swapping out my Racer insole for more toe height but the ride changed somewhat with my thin insole from other minimalist shoes
5.5mm! 😮 I've not measured them to be that thick, but they are thicker than most. I have found they, or the midsole doesn't pack out after 50km though, so sometimes it's worth pushing through. But for me. Fit comes first for sure!
