I've recently started playing traditional grip (about a year ago) I've started using my thumb as the main fulcrum and found that my third finger does get in the way , I really am at a early stage of the grip and being comfortable with it I am taking all the correct pointers and seeing some really, really good analysis videos on the traditional grip, yours is right up there I've got to say, thank you for taking the time to video your experience and I think your technique is a very good example of how-to, I'll keep on keeping on, thanks again, from the UK, oh and subbed!! 🙏
Keep in mind also the throne buddy used was 28 inches.. too high for almost anyone especially buddy who is about 5/8.. so you're going to end up slouching... And after 40 years you're bound to have some back problems
But the height of that throne allowed him that toe control for those amazing flutter speeds on his bass drum. When he did those 16th note accents. You could see him raise that heel just right. I thought the throne was 24. 28? Wow.
I found it lol! Well since I'm a few decades older than you at least and grew up with match Group this is the first time in my life I'm glad I'm older lol the advantages of starting with this or irreplaceable becomes instinct. I played rock 'n' roll for a while I played everything you said believe it or not country and western. I was a member of the Music union local 802 here in East Coast Hawaii used to play gigs on weekends and tuxedos oh that was torture! I had a play bossa nova's merengues tangos. It was OK I needed the money and paid well but it was horribly torture is playing with year olds and I was 20. Unfortunately these guys were actually never understood how to play! Forgive the expression but it was paid to play! The people who played kiss ass of the leaders of the of the gigs and he reported to the bandleader as you said something wrong he would tell you drummed horribly even if you were great if you were terrible and you kissed his ass he said oh this guy is great keep giving him jobs! After a while I just said I don't want the money goodbye. The modern drummer as of today very Loosey goosey drumming to cover using modern drumming techniques some very good skills but again when it comes to solos they are clueless they think banging high-speed going around 40 drums as a solo. They don't understand a solo is a song it Has to have rhythm melody because drums don't play melody but it has the sound melodic they just bang away at high speeds run the ground the drum drum drum drum drum!
Thanks for posting this important and informed video. I must say, you must have had a very lazy teacher coming up, or you weren't paying very close attention. But I really don't see how that's possible. Because, in 1964, at 14, my 1st (& most important) teacher was the great Jack Burger. Jack was a regular sub for Shelley Mann in Hollywood in those days who would drive around the streets of Hollywood with his drums in the trunk waiting for a call for a recording session which he'd do 3 or 4 times a week. In between he'd pick up drum students. I was one of the lucky ones. But in those days, the matched grip wasn't yet a "thing." It was only used by "lazy" drummers who didn't have the patience or discipline to learn the "right" way (😂). And Jack wouldn't even take on a student who used the matched grip. As a teacher he prohibited it. So, you may have missed a couple of key points, which I drill into all my students. 1st the balance. You got it right from Buddy as you point out in your video. By holding the stick higher up towards the butt you make the stick top heavy towards the tip & lose the balance critical for speed, accuracy & endurance. 2nd, your 1st finger is a counter weight that rests on the stick to maximize the bounce. By adding the 2nd finger, too much weight is added inhibiting the bounce. Finally, fingers 3 & 4 are placed under the stick straight, not bent, against the palm. Think of it as a table upon which the stick rests in the center behind the digit. By bending the top digit the stick slides off the table and you lose a significant amount of stick control. These are 3 of the 4 main principles of using the Trad. Grip (the 1st being the grip itself between the thumb & 1st finger) Jack drilled into me so I could never forget. All of these principles are clearly demonstrated by Buddy, Louie Bellson, Joe Morello, Jim Chapin, all of whom were friends (& some rivals) with Buddy and all gleaned alot of technique, as you referred to the motion of your hand, from Sandy Moeller, whom I recommend you look up if you're not already familiar with him & want to learn more. Happy trails & keep posting those great videos.
Tried it. I will call ring finger and pinky 4 and 5. Making them more flat against the palm makes the downstroke hit even stronger. To be honest, I'm not used to it. Its like a subtle change with a golf swing grip. But the power is increased. Ihave a tendency to let 4 and 5 raise from the palm. I will keep working on this. Thanks!
@@mrjohnstgeorge Yes. The key is not to bend 4 & 5 at the top digit. It's only natural that those fingers will raise slightly off the palm while playing as I have observed with most players. The success in using this grip depends on locking the stick firmly between the thumb & forefinger so it doesn't slip while playing. That's the greatest challenge. Time will take care of that.
Thanks for the insight, I never even thought if something so subtle and now that you mention it I too held it at the end of the finger!! I’m gonna try this technique and see what happens!! Thanks!!
Great video about Buddy Rich. Another coupla things about Buddy's left hand- 1. The height and angle of the snare is set very high and angled downward so that the left hand is lower and closer to the head and rim. This places the stick low, level and even to the head of the drum. As you mentioned as to Buddy gripping the stick towards the middle, from this position, it places the stick bead in the center of the drum. 2. Buddy's posture favored the speed and freedom of his left hand. Buddy sat with his stool kinda high. He dropped his right shoulder in a heavy slouch, releasing tension in his shoulders and dropping his elbows lower with his hands higher. This slouching posture, which is the complete opposite of what i was taught, caused Buddy to look to his left almost constantly. This posture also causes the left arm and grip to loosen up, freeing it's movement, speed and control. try it, it works. 3. Buddy used 2 styles of traditional grip. The first is just what you showed in the video. The other traditional grip he used was turning the left hand over so that the thumb and fingers are more on top of the stick. This transfers the power of the stick from the arm and wrist to the fulcrum and fingers only. This is another reason buddy would rest the stick on his middle knuckle rather than the end knuckle. When you see him do the so called one handed roll, he would often use this grip to push with the fulcrum and pull with the top finger.
I admire most your modest and humble approach to explaining the topic. You seem like you would be a good teacher, not like so many of the shouty, know-it-alls on RU-vid and the internet generally. 👍 That was interesting.
Nice observation! I wish more teachers would point this out! Ring finger position has always been the main difference between traditional drumcorps players and many of the great drumset players. I noticed this with guys like Virgil Donati when I saw him play live. When the stick sits farther down in between your fingers, it really helps with moving around the kit. You can whip your arm to the left and your ring finger keeps the stick in position. More accuracy, more control.
Your statements are spot on. The sad news for me is I did not realize this until the posting of this video. After learning from Ken Loomer the middle stick position, then noticing that picture of Buddy keeping it above the knuckle, then did I learn how wrong I was. Buddy's power singles around the set stay strong because of this grip. Let's us know what you learn from jt. Be well.
That Buddy picture I saw with the stick behind the knuckle on the ring finger really makes a difference. There's more POWER that way as opposed to holding far back on the stick. What do you think?
Это сколько надо иметь свободного времени что бы этим заниматься . А работать кто будет . Дороги строит кто . Коров доит кто Дома возводит кто .???? Барабанщики 😂😂😂😂 Всем барабанщикам по лому и на рудники
If you want to study someone very interesting look up EL Esipario Siberiano. The guys talent is insane. And check out some of the grips and techniques that he uses. Buddy amazing too. Although I learned with the unmatched traditional grip, I later switched. Way playing Timpani in an orchestra and ended up preferring the matched grip. I am not playing on heavily tilted drums as in marching. Why play unmatched? It’s just a style that was not always “traditional”
Do what is best for you and your band. The purpose of this video was to share a moment of someone meeting Buddy and hearing out of his own mouth a personal secret. 'Let me show you what I do'.. I would love to hear him talk and explain his thinking about his approach on various charts. One on one. My video here was about Ken Loomer telling me a technique Buddy showed him on his drums. It's the closest I ever got to Buddy Rich.
John, I don't have formal training on drums but I can play 😢 and have a gig at church every Sunday. Major problem though..I don't know when to stop. Do You have a way to tell when the song will end I play by 👂?
Yes, the first time I saw him I got a seat next to the third trombone. It was amazing. Never forgot it. All the other times it was in large venues from a distance. Still great, but not like that fist night when I was 18. Miami at Tony's Fish Market on the 79th Steet Causway. 1971.
Nicely said. I noticed how Buddy holds the stick at the center. Compare to the also great Keith Carlock, who holds his left hand a the very back of the stick. I prefer what you're talking about. Thank you!
It's not me. It's like Buddy in the room, looking at how you hold your stick, then he tells you what he does. Would you listen? Would any drummer listen? Would any drummer disagree?
Your no buddy rich. Your pretty good. But, there will never be another buddy rich. NEVER! And he only had a single kick base! And still perfectly fluid. What I would give to see him today with today's technology. But, hey man very good video. I never noticed using the two fingers like you demonstrated. Thanks for the info!
Years ago I was a hot drummer. No more, as I went back to the piano and now I've gotten old. But, I once had a great drum teacher who taught me a few finger and wrist exercises that helped me achieve a decent, never great, left-handed buzz roll. You are on your way, so let me share these two ideas that who knows, may help. First, the grip between thumb and first finger is important. I exercised bouncing the left stick on the pad without the use of fingers. This exercise insists that you snap the wrist at a right angle to the pad, a skill that you've discovered on your own. The proper angle of the downward stoke is a key to getting a consistent bounce. The movement of your thumb, from its base toward the first or forefinger is called adduction. The fat, fleshy area of the hand between the thumb and first finger is the location of the muscles that control adduction. You can feel this group of muscles contract if you hold this area of your left hand, with your right thumb and forefinger, an then open and close the left thumb like you're gripping a drumstick. The idea of the no-finger bounce is to strengthen these muscles. Use a heavy stick, like a 5b parade stick. Grip it tightly between thumb and forefinger, and snap the wrist downward at a right angle to the pad, relaxing the wrist a little to allow the stick bounce. Repeat. If you snap the wrist too hard, the stick will get away from you, so start slowly and without using too much wrist power at first. As your thumb adduction strength develops, you can use more force, but always keep the stick under control between thumb and forefinger. The exercise works the muscles involved in thumb adduction, and the wrist snap-twitch motion. Have you ever watched an Olympic sprinter practice starts. This develops what the sports medicine guys call the "fast twitch" reflex. Drummers with blazing speed and finely developed stick control also need to work their fast twitch reflexes. Ok, the next exercise is also a fundamental hand builder. This time you, you can use both hands in the standard grip, with all the fingers. Again, start slowly. The idea here is to do a slow alternating 8th note roll. One-and two-and, etc. Use a light downward stroke and snap the wrist upward, quickly but in a controlled manner. Don't let the stick bounce. Down, then snap up approximately 45° of stick movement. It is OK to grip the stick a little tighter at first, eventually you want to work on a relaxed manner of playing, developing only the upward wrist snap, and add speed slowly, but always under control. This exercise builds the upward wrist strength and twitch reflex. That's it. Try them for no more than ten minutes a day. These exercises build strength and control over time. You will not notice any great changes in your playing during the first few weeks. But give them a chance to work their magic over a year, and you'll notice many changes in stamina, control, and precision in your playing. Best wishes and thank you.
@@mrjohnstgeorge Hi there. I hope it helps. Take your time. It's been over 50 years since I've played drums, so I won't be making any videos, but if I have any more memories that will apply, I'll share them. I don't know why the famous RU-vid algorithm served up your video to me, other than I watched an old movie with my wife last week titled "The Gene Krupa Story." His solo on Benny Goodman's Sing Sing Sing is out of this world. Maybe it remembered that I once watched a few of the Buddy Rich appearances on the Carson show? But that was years ago. Hey, have you seen Buddy's "Playing the House" solo with the Muppets? Wow! Live in beauty, friend.
Hi John, I to have been a Buddy Rich fan since I was in my teens. I thought I would share some other video's showing other technique's that I have seen buddy use. Here are the links. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-osD5_rIzH94.html Here is the open/close technique that he also used. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wc62KMqQGio.html Here is Buddy: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-met9jGd_xKc.html Dick Cully: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nV0JofDLb50.html
I agree ! ..I was not that comfortable with stoke to close to ring finger ..and found playing closer to middle of stick better for me ! …I’m also fairly new at traditional grip ..I really like how it feels
Lucky for me that's how I hold the stick. However I have always been unsure of the better playing grip spot along the stick. Ive been closer to the end. I think I'll take your advice and head towards the middle more. I'm 60 y/o BTW Thanks, great vid.
I studied this left hand technique with FRED GRUBER for many years. He called it the “contrary motion” as the top two fingers move away from the grip. The bottom, two fingers move towards it and vice versa, but there is a secret that I’ve never hear people talk about and that’s the weight distribution of the stick.
@@mrjohnstgeorge : yes, I know! Freddy should be this country motion technique back in 1981. It took me quite a while to get it! What I’m talking about, is the balance or weight factor what I’m talking about Has to do with the seesaw affect of a stick in the hand in the left-hand traditional grip.
I agree completely, I have been working on this for years. At time it feels as though my stroke is almost backwards like it feels like my ring finger makes an upward stroke and the bounce is from my thumb index finger.
That's the correct feel. There is a squeeze in and squeeze out feeling. Check my Buddy Rich Left Hand Study Part Two. I made it about 6 months after I did ths. Things change for the better.
