i do miss the old group we had working together to make the deck effective :) but fortunately we have a pretty good community working together again. i remember you!

@@phlsphr42 Oy, thank you for remembering! The old mtgsalvation site has dumped my account ; _ ; are you still on the site or organized in another way?

I haven't seen them, no. I took a look at the mill deck stats on MTGGoldfish and MTGTop8 and it appears that Leyline of the Void hasn't seen any play in the top Mill decks. I could see an argument for them trying it out. I think most lists have been on Soul-Guide Lantern, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extraction, and Extirpate, and that has been successful for them against the general meta.

That's what I've seen as well. Just shows how out of the loop I am....lol

oh crap, I'm sorry, didn't realize. I can re-record and re-upload.

Sorry about that, will fix, thanks!

I can go through sideboard decisions more, thanks for the suggestion and kind words! Got a bunch of games to upload this weekend, hoping to get group discussion on them, too

I run it over a 2nd Overgrown Tomb because it functions virtually the same as Tomb for the deck, but is far less painful. We've talked about maybe finding room for another Pathway in the Discord, to further improve the manabase, but not sure of the cut and not entirely sure it's really necessary. If you could though, I'd advise the Pathway over a 2nd Tomb, just to save on the life you have to pay. Best of luck, and feel free to join the Discord!

thanks! i'm trying to keep a steady stream of content, just super busy with life, too. thank you for the kind words!

It's been a community effort, for sure. One of the other mods on the Discord helped a *ton* in getting the spreadsheet work further along, and it's the community members that help contribute to the data. Feel free to join the Discord if you haven't already!

If it's a league, then I'd end up with a 2-1. This was in Tournament Practice, though. I rarely get the time and environment necessary to play league games, pretty busy as a dad and whatnot.

thanks! ya, i love seeing lantern content, too. unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of it. i imagine that it's not a deck that event grinders would prefer, since they have to put in more effort for the same reward they could possibly get by playing something like scam, amulet titan, etc., where there are *way* fewer important decisions to make. i also think that a player would have to really like studying how the inner workings of the game is constructed in order to enjoy. due to those two criteria, i figure that the population of people that truly enjoy the deck is probably relatively small.

@@phlsphr42 i'd say you're right about it not being popular, but also because it's not as versatile as others, once your plan is out there it can be easier to navigate around. I'd also argue it's worse after sideboarding against quite a few decks. artifact removal, enchantment removal, leyline of sanctity, leyline of combustion, etc.

@@lutherannn i don't know about it being not as versatile. for some time, after kgc, oko, uro, etc., were introduced, i found that lantern didn't perform as well as before and stopped doing any significant work on it. however, i regained interest after a little discussion in the discord around this time last year, and decided to give it another go at development, to see what could be done. the results were extremely surprising. it turned out that the deck was *very* good against a significant portion of the metagame at the time. it had great matchups against rhinos, scam, living end, scales, hammer...it turned out that i had been wrong, and that the deck was legitimately good again. unfortunately, people refused to believe it. the reason i started this channel was to try to provide proof, and fortunately it was enough for zac to try it out, and you know the rest. but now, there appears to be no zac. you can see the proof, here, on this channel, just like in the early days, but people *refuse* to acknowledge that it might actually be decent again (just like the early days, where people refused to believe that it was good to begin with). there are answers to the deck, just as there was in the past. we had to worry about ancient grudge, kolaghan's command, maelstrom pulse, nature's claim, shatterstorm, shattering spree, stony silence...there have always been answers to lantern. but, due to how the deck functions, what truly matters is whether lantern can effectively neutralize those answers. from what you can see on this channel, it appears that lantern *can* do so. but it won't matter if people are already convinced of what they believe to be true. until then, it's just us playing the deck. the only other significant lantern content is kanister (whose deck is *very* different than this one, and you can observe the difference in results), and others who struggle with piloting it. some may try to pick it up and fail, and then blame the deck. but as you can see, so long as you're moderately competent in piloting it, and you're piloting a build that has had some real thought put into it, it is a decent deck.

Ah, yeah, fair, lol. I've been doing that since the start, so people could browse the wns to see how I navigated them and the losses to see what went wrong. I started the channel years ago to provide information rather than entertainment, but I absolutely see your point. Thanks!

@@phlsphr42 Ah ok. Though when I learn a deck I am interested in the loss as much as in the wins since both types of game show what to expect when playing it.

@@A_Wise_Monkey ya, I upload my losses, too :) EDIT: This was round 5 from a league, where I went 4-1. The loss was against ChrisMTG77, the Amulet Titan match that I uploaded the same day that I uploaded this one. You can see my game records in the background, and match them up with the video uploads. There are few that I don't upload, those are me messing around with other decks (like a league where I went 3-2 messing around with Amulet Titan).

thanks! i was having technical difficulties with the laptop and mic last night. ya, the scam matchup's been pretty good overall.

thanks! the editing is pretty basic, not fancy at all, but i struggle just to get the time to play and record, let alone try to do video editing. thanks for the kind words!

Yep! I still need to figure out how to set protected ranges and whatnot, but the newest combined sheet is now available, pinned on the lantern discord

@@webbofmusic no worries, i'm glad to help however i can, and always open to suggestions :) thanks! just finished my league (finally), will upload the last 3 matches tonight hopefully.

Here ya go! 3 Ancient Stirrings 3 Assassin's Trophy 4 Blooming Marsh 4 Codex Shredder 3 Duress 4 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Forest 2 Godless Shrine 1 Grafdigger's Cage 4 Lantern of Insight 4 Mishra's Bauble 1 Overgrown Tomb 2 Pithing Needle 3 Profane Tutor 2 Pyxis of Pandemonium 2 Swamp 4 The Mycosynth Gardens 1 The Underworld Cookbook 4 Thoughtseize 4 Urza's Saga 4 Verdant Catacombs 2 Cursed Totem 2 Damping Sphere 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3 Leyline of Sanctity 2 Necromentia 1 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Soul-Guide Lantern 3 Tear Asunder

Hi :) Yeah, this is the build: 4 Blooming Marsh 4 Verdant Catacombs 2 Godless Shrine 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Glimmervoid 2 Swamp 1 Forest 4 Urza's Saga 4 Lantern of Insight 4 Codex Shredder 2 Pyxis of Pandemonium 4 Ensnaring Bridge 2 Pithing Needle 4 Mishra's Bauble 3 Profane Tutor 3 Duress 4 Thoughtseize 1 Grafdigger's Cage 3 The Mycosynth Gardens 3 Ancient Stirrings 1 The Underworld Cookbook 3 Assassin's Trophy Sideboard: 3 Leyline of Sanctity 2 Damping Sphere 2 Necromentia 3 Tear Asunder 1 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Stone of Erech 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 2 Cursed Totem

@@phlsphr42 do you find this more effective than, let's say, a combination with whir of invention?

@@yajsenall I do, yeah. In previous videos I tested Whir and found that the manabase is very fragile. Even in this league, you can see where I had to keep sketchy hands due to the single Glimmervoid. The Whir build is full of situations like that, and it then forces the pilot into lines that aren't always great just to make the mana work. It used to be fine when we had Mox Opal, and before people could cast Prismatic Ending, Leyline Binding, and Pick Your Poison on turn one.

What are your thoughts on scheming symmetry? Somehow i feel it's a better option or a good addition to profane tutor?

@@yajsenall Some of us tested it a year or so ago, just didn't perform well. It only really works if two things or true: Opponent doesn't have instant-speed draw *and* we have a mill rock. Even then, if we have a mill rock, we've increased the chances of them having two good cards in a row by giving them one of them.

lol, hey! Been a while. Yeah, out of the sideboard strategies, I think this is probably the most effective and efficient for the mill matchup. Of course, even having titans doesn't guarantee a win, but fortunately Lantern has the tools to prevent the mill opponent from having exile effects when they need them.

Yea. It's almost a given to auto scoop once a single titan hits the grave unfortunately, depending on how early of course

Good point, thanks! Yeah, they wouldn't want to search for the basic because they don't want to mill the Emrakul, which means that they would have drawn a dead card and still be dead on board. I would have still had to use the Lantern on myself (unless they seriously misplayed and searched), but your line is better. With my line, they could still win by getting the mana to cast Archive Trap and hope that I draw the Emrakul, but your line prevents that. Thanks again!

That could be worth testing, but I prefer Trophy since it hits at instant speed and can hit far more cards than Thirst, often for less mana. For example, being able to hit a karoo land (with the bounce/untap on the stack), a titan that's been given haste, an Urza's Saga (as I did recently in a Hammertime matchup), a tron land, etc., just feels much more important to me. EDIT: As an example, in this video, the opponent was able to consistently keep putting me down to three mana, meaning that I wouldn't have been able to cast a Thirst to kill a KGC or Sheoldred. A Trophy, however, could do both. The reason I'm not particularly fond of Haywire Mite is because Nature's Claim does virtually the same thing for less mana. In the same Hammertime match that I mention above, Nature's Claim was able to save me from losing, whereas a Mite would have lost me the game.

It's great to see some of the original Lantern developers around :D

Thanks! The list is currently in the featured video on my channel, with explanations for each card and some discussion on the data work. I also talk about another list, a slight edit of this list, that I plan on testing out. But, I get that you may not have time to watch that video, so if you just want to see the current list and the other list, here are the links: Current list: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5427644#online What I plan on testing next: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6148776#online

Thank you!@@phlsphr42

Hey! Spage also commented. The original Lantern developers still around :)

For a few of the matchups, there is a decent amount of data. I understand that larger sample sizes are always nice, but I think that Magic is one of the games where it doesn't really take much data to get to a point where you can say with confidence that, say, Gtron is a very poor matchup or Hammer is a very good matchup for Lantern. I'm currently running the following list, and it's what I would recommend. I hope to get the time to run a league or two soon with it and provide the results, analyzing what goes well and what doesn't: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5427644#online

@@phlsphr42 I don't doubt what you say about the matchups (you clearly know a lot about Lantern), the small sample size on its own just isn't convincing. I agree with you that it doesn't take many games to figure out that a matchup is bad or good when you are playing the deck. I think I'll have to play the deck, learn the play patterns, to really understand the matchups, to understand what works and what doesn't (and importantly, why that is). Thanks for the list, I think I'll try to pilot it in paper soon. One question: What is the reason you don't run fetchlands? I've never played the deck, but it seems like fetchlands would be especially good in Lantern due to all the topdeck manipulation.

@@apgl07 Yeah, I can understand what you mean with confidence intervals and all. With respect to fetches, the reasoning for not using them is that we want to have turn one discard as often as possible, but still be able to hit green, white, or blue consistently afterwards. A fetchland manabase would require shocks to do that, and would require that many, if not most, of our turn one plays would involve fetch -> shock. That would effectively put us at a starting life total of 17 every game instead of 20, and those three life points could matter in quite a few games. With the current manabase, it's worked out quite well (and I use mtgoncurve.com to help tweak the manabase, to include sideboarding plans). I still want to try to be able to consistently cast Leyline if I draw them, so there's still some work to do there, but otherwise it seems quite good.

This league was the one that I replaced Leylines with Nature's Claim in the side. I don't know that I'd board them in any more since they started running more Moon effects, but it may work. Against the post-ban Scam, I think I typically: +1 Cursed Totem +1 The Underworld Cookbook -1 Graffigger's Cage -1 Mishra's Bauble

Thanks for watching! If you notice any lines I miss, please feel free to point them out 🙂

Holy crap, that's a great line! Thanks for pointing it out :)

Hey! Yeah, my main list is here: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5427644#online However, I have been testing: -3 Leyline of Sanctity (in the sideboard) +3 Nature's Claim (in the sideboard) The idea is that Nature's Claim is still somewhat decent against Burn (although it already seems like not that bad of a matchup), but is much more helpful against Amulet (which feels like a miserable matchup), while still being useful against Scales and Hammer.

Feel free to join the Discord! There's also the Lantern Insights channel you can check out, if you haven't already.

Thanks! I used to do more of these with narration, just been pressed for time recently and just been recording replays. I hope to be able to make time for more videos with narration 🙂

Hi :) I think I mention in the video, but it's because if I play Lantern, my opponent can see their top card. Many opponents run fetch lands (like this opponent) and can then use the information to tactically use the fetchland to try to get a card they want (or know not to fetch yet because they see a card they want on top).

Yeah, I'm not sure if they even run Plating, but I would assume they do. I figure that they either sided it out in game 2, or that they were worried about having the mana to sac Fair and then be able to cast and equip before I drew a Needle or discard spell.

Hey! Yeah, there's some number of us in the Discord that have been working on troubleshooting what problems the deck has and how to course-correct to improve the deck.

Good point! I think I was thinking about using my Bauble and Shredder to try to hit my third land drop. But then I saw the Brazen Borrower in their hand and realized that I couldn't risk me missing the land drop/artifact and then them using Borrower to return my Shredder, taking out the only land I had with the end step trigger. I figured that they likely didn't have too many answers to Bridge in their deck, so I was mostly concerned about resolving Bridge rather than hoping to hit Flame of Anor. I had two Bridges in hand, so I knew that if I could resolve both, it was very unlikely that they would be able to put threats on the board *and* draw answers to both Bridges before I found my third land and a lock was set.

I think I'd over-valued Profane Tutor here. In hindsight, I should have mulligan'd. I know that I want to keep nearly any hand with Profane Tutor or Bridge, and I figured that this was close enough.

It looks like the line was search for needle+hope to draw land, save duress for next turn?

I didn't want the opponent to get a Ghoulcaller's Bell with their Ragavan. That would give them ability to control draws, so either way I needed to sac the Lantern.

Hey, glad to have you on the Discord! For the mulligan point, I think that's a great insight. There's a couple of things that have been implemented into the spreadsheet to try to account for what I think you're talking about (unless I'm misunderstanding you). Every data point on the Weighted Data Trends tab is given a weight for sample size in order to avoid situations like you're describing. Additionally, one of the other contributors to the data who is in the Discord set up a way to look at how cards perform against specific matchups. I can show you how it's done by chatting through the discord with the file open, if you'd like :)

lol, yeah. It's one of the reasons why I *almost always* use Bauble on myself when I have a mill rock. The probability of the opponent randomly having a card they need against us on top is far less likely than us not having the card we need on top. If I hadn't used the Bauble on myself to help filter my draws with Shredder, I would have lost that game.

Yeah, according to our data in the Discord, it's very well positioned in the current meta.

lol. I have a Gtron match to upload here eventually where my opponent won game 1 and quit the match :P Funny enough, I *almost* won game 1, they had 1 out left in their deck and they drew it before milling the last few cards in their deck.

Is Abzan variant more effective than GB?

@@johnmitchellcheng9915 I prefer Bgw, with the only white cards being the Leylines in the side. The only green cards are the 3 Assassin's Trophy in the main. Otherwise, just black and colorless cards. The most significant new change is replacing Ancient Stirrings with Profane Tutor. Profane Tutor has been *very* good.

@@johnmitchellcheng9915 I think all you really get with Abzan is Kaya and Anguished unmaking, which are both really good. Green is really just for assassin’s trophy. Maybe abrupt decay but I’m not sure that one is played as much anymore. And yeah, profane tutor is reeeeeeally good.