Autotune used as an effect a la Cher or T-Pain is a different thing to autotune used to correct pitch. I've never has a problem with it as an effect. I also don't have a problem with autotune used to correct pitch if I can't detect it, even if I know it was used, e.g. the Conan performance. Where I hate it is when it seems to be intended for pitch correction but it's obvious and I can hear it. That happened a lot in pop in the 2000s. I find it distracting and It feels lazy - either the singer or the sound engineer just isn't doing a good enough job. I think some of the concern/disdain from people like Rick Beato and David Draiman is that pitch correction can be used as a crutch to allow a singer to get away with not developing themselves to their full potential. We might all miss out on hearing a remarkable voice because that artist was able to settle for good enough with pitch correction.
@@georgegrougios I’ve been a pro musician for 17 years with a Masters in Songwriting….oh and one more thing, this month I performed in front of Deep Purple’s guitarist, who personally shook my hand and told me I was a great vocalist….twice. What have you done to be so clued up George?
yeah this is one of their sillier songs, I just love their self depricating humour. the big hands observation cracked me up, peter was a big dude at 6ft 8 and that's probably why he's playing the double bass like that, to poke fun at himself. they have lots of good songs, a good intro to them would be 'love you to death'. it shows off his singing more. he didn't just have a deep voice but a good vocal range too. there a nice live version of wolf moon too on youtube
Incorrect they started as a grindcore band with Brutal Death Metal like twist, all members were vegan in the beginning and the lyrical content was a lot of reversal of slaughter house positions with animals being the slaughters. In later years they became GrindDeath with more focus on death metal mixing in Tech Death and Prog Metal, the lyrical content kind of shifted but didn't being more environmentally and slightly political content. BTW most of those bands Slaughter To Prevail included, drew vocal inspiration from Travis those tunnel notes and vortex tones were pretty much reshaped by Travis he rarely gets the credit he's owe for it. Also the name is to shell shock a culture of carnivores with very little compassion towards anyone or thing outside of themselves. Yes the message was we our a planet of environmental and animal torturers. The point was to end the merciless treatment of living creatures
When I hear "David hates Autotune" what I think is "Ahh, he must be a Melodyne man". The only reason I care if someone uses autotune is that I find the sound really grating, a bit like a less-expressive version of the guitar talk boxes that were popular for a couple of years in the 70s (though less severe). Except it's been going on for decades at this point, in a way that really makes me wish everyone would find a new toy. Someone needs to write a computer virus that forces autotune to follow bebop scales and tempos. That'd be fun.
@16:35 Shots fired!! I giggled so bad, ive seen quite a few videos with this .. person, for me he came out of nowhere onto my youtube like some kind of celeb, id never ever seen or heard the name or face before. Then i stopped watching the videos cause i got sick and tired of watching this boomer rant and whine about all sorts of stuff while having a guitar/equipment worth more than i make in 3 years on his lap talking about how music was better before and how the industry screws you around.... no thanx!
It's a shame cause he has a lot of really good videos related to music theory and how certain songs are constructed, and some fantastic interviews. I think his "boomer rants" mostly just come from a place of "the music I love isn't popular anymore" and that's fair, but he just uses it to make lots of "boomer rant" content 🤣
Pitch correction is another tool in a musician's arsenal and that is absolutely fine. Nobody lost their shit when Tom Morello used a Digitech Whammy pedal all over Rage's first album DESPITE the claim in the sleeve notes that no effects were used on the production of the record. I'd also be willing to bet real money that there's PLENTY of TS fans that would absolutely tear you to pieces for suggesting that she isn't the best singer in the world. Music is so subjective and people are all different (and mostly stupid, mostly) that it really doesn't matter who uses what effects. I've long maintained that there are only two types of music in this world - music you like and music you don't like. "Good" or "Bad" doesn't come into it.
It reminds me of how so many people carry on about how movies are better when they "don't have any CGI", and they give all these examples of CGI-free movies ... that are actually FILLED with CGI! They just can't identify it. It's gotten so bad that movie studios falsely claim that their movies don't have any CGI when they obviously do, and they just gaslight fans about it. Anyway, this anti auto-tune debate often reminds me of that. We get all of these auto-tune hunters who don't really understand the technology and how it's deployed, and so if they detect anything valid, they detect the lowest hanging fruit possible. And what they miss is everything else. And in the process, they praise musicians who, for all they know, are actually using auto-tune!
Oh man the whole CGI debacle is a complete mess. I just roll my eyes when I see people comment "This is great because no CGI" or "This is crap because it's all CGI".
I think, as a non-professional vocalist who dabbles in multiple genres, I might have a answer to your question about why it is acceptable for one genre or singer but not another. It's the sell out mentality, which is sort of a subset of authenticity. Years ago Tool made a song called hooker with a penis (highly recommend if you haven't heard it) in which Maynard explores the nature of being a sell out and the concept of "the man" from the 70s. The reason those in the punk genre could get away with things is because the punk genre was, ostensibly, all about sticking it to the man. Like if you listen to say the vandals anarchy burger, the whole concept of "hold the government" is sticking it to the man. So like the line "if you think you're free, try walking into the deli and urinating on the cheese." There was a mystique in early punk that they were entirely genuine and would never "sell out to the man." There was an expectation for punk musicians to be the uncouth bad boy. The Sex Pistols were loved by so many, regardless of shite vocals, because they were the embodiment of perceived punk authenticity. That's why Metallica lost so many fans after Napster and shit because they became "the man" shitting on the little guy, they lost their authenticity (which it's questionable they ever had, per the Tool explanation) and when they changed their sound, even more so. Which brings us back to Tool and hooker with a penis "I sold out long before you'd ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit. And then you bought one." So Maynard is basically saying that the pseudo-authenticity the fans apply to these bands is fake before the fans ever become fans, especially back in the day because there wasn't much reach for independent artists. Now any person with a good voice, a guitar and a bit of production software can go viral (look at Ren, he knocked off Rick Astley to claim number one, as an independent.) Which brings us finally to David. There is an expectation for authenticity, especially as he has trained in this, that and the other and he's like trained as a cantor and that puts him a category where he's not allowed to be seen as the least little bit inauthentic or "sell out to the man." Being around as long as Disturbed has, they've already sold out. People say shit like "oh this artist sounds as good live as they do on their studio albums" and they don't seem to realise that what they are subconsciously acknowledging is that the sound guy live has done a fucking amazing job. Which is not to take away from David's exceptional talent. If we take someone like Will Ramos on the other end of metal spectrum, who is an absolute beast at vocals and you listen to the samples where he doesn't have any production on his voice, he sounds amazing but he often doesn't have the vibrancy or the depth in his vocals and there is a "crunchiness" that is almost plosive like because of the way you do gutturals and fry and shit. This is actually a weird trap that amateur or aspiring metal vocalists run into. I did Will's metal vocal course and I thought my vocals sounded like dogshit, until I realised that I don't have the production knowledge that really amplifies vocals. Once I got past that, I started to enjoy the process of the vocals and making weird noises for their own sake. The other problem being an amateur vocalist though is that we spend a lot of time recording our sound on our phone and it's really hard to determine if what we are hearing is "authentic" or sounds the way we hear it to others, especially where the recording program has automatic features. With pop, people already see them as sell outs and whores, so if they do something "sell outish", like use auto tune or pitch correction, there is no backlash because it's almost an industry staple in that genre. There was an old saying about the pop industry "spread your legs, make an album." It wasn't specifically targeted at women but it had those connotations. I think auto tune and pitch correction are a bit of bogeyman, much like AI has become and people don't really understand the mechanics of it. Ultimately, any piece of music, no matter how raw or how live it claims to be, especially if it is an album or something by a band that has been in the business for a while, has some kind of production on it. One of my absolute favourite bands is Cellar Darling, Anna Murphy is a fucking siren. During covid they did live to internet performances and while it is apparent that there is not as much production on her voice, even in that setting there is still production. Hell, a lot of modern mics comes with mechanisms that apply "production" to vocals. And thus endeth my ADHD fueled thesis about why autotune is seen the way it is and why Disturbed fans and metal fans lose their shit when you suggest it. As a metal fan who understands that artists and producers use anything in the toolbox that gives the artists their best sound, which in turn leads to record sales and popularity, I couldn't agree more with you. Again I'd go so far as to say every commercial song we listen to has autotune and pitch correction to one degree or another. The "uncanny valley" is no longer production, it's vocals without the production we subconsciously identify with. I'd say that I've been listening to Disturbed for so long that I know Draiman wasn't the original singer and I'd go so far as to say with everything I know, I don't give a fuck who is or isn't pitch corrected, auto tuned, produced as long as the music they are producing is true to who the band is and it sounds the way the band wants us to hear it then people should unbunch their fuck panties. I don't give a fuck who sold out or didn't because anyone who has produced an album has sold out in one way or another, up until the advent of streaming services. Just one aspiring vocalist's subjective perspective.
I really enjoyed this video. Good singers performers artists and writers can and should use whatever they like to make their music sound the way they want. If it hides a weakness then that's alright. If it is the equivalent of plastic surgery for the untalented, that's ok also. I mind this fuss when records released shamed drummers for having a metronome keeping time. Haters gonna hate. You're great, love all you do xx
Thanks for that one, really appreciated. I do connect with David. And I don't mind if he is pitch corrected. Same with many singers. I can hear correction sometimes, but I'm sure there are many songs where I can't even guess it's there. What I don't like is that feeling I have with some older songs. I have a personal connection with them, and on some recent releases, I feel there is something changed. It might be just a feeling, it might be true. It might be pitch correction or just the way someone re-processed the track to make it ok for modern media. After all, streaming and vinyl sound different. But there is something I don't like when I feel it's not the same song anymore. I'm losing my connection, and it make me sad.
I am not a fan of auto-tune. If people are using it without my knowledge then I am fine. It is when it makes their voice sound different than it really is that it gets to me.
For me, i have two views on this. Next month i am going to see Samantha Fish at the fantastic Rock City. I don't expect it to be a perfectly perfect performance! I won't be upset if there is a slightly imperfect note because live music is all about the atmosphere and the connection i have with that artist and their music. After all, i will be singing along and i definitely need auto-tune! When i buy or stream music i do expect it to be perfect as it has gone through a production process and can be tweaked to be so. I am not too fussed if it has been 'manipulated'. I hope you don't get too much hate for this as i thought it was a considered and genuine piece from someone who has the knowledge and experience to back it up.
Interesting take but I don't fully agree. I want to hear the true voice of an artist. Now i have no issue with sometimes using technology on the voice if it is for a particular effect (for instance playing a character within a song) in which case as a listener it is an honest use. Now if someone says they are snging "live" and they are not then to me they are conning the listener. If we are going down the route of it being normalised then i want the artist to say they have used it. I can then make a decision whether to buy their way of making music or someone who doesnt use it. To me there is a dishonesty about using autotune or pitch correction. At live shows i can handle a singer going out of tune or a singer saying upfront "i am choked up with the cold can you help me out tonight" as this is honest and as a fan or a music lover I can empathise and of course help out by singing loud as fuck in support. Some of my favourite gigs have been like that. Give me that any day over faking shit. Sorry to disagree with you but that is where I stand. If I went to a gig and found out the singer wasn't singing live I would never go see that artist again. I would also let mates know so they can decide whether to spend money on fakery.
@@madjock-ig5bv I can understand your point of view and I agree with the idea of hearing the true voice of an artist (whether that's a singer, guitarist, or a band as a whole). Where do you stand on other production techniques used in modern recordings? Things like compression and multitrack recording and layering? It's all used to "enhance" the art, much in the same way pitch correction is. And even demo recordings by modern bands will use some basic production techniques like that. What I'm saying is: unless you have someone who performs, produces, mixes, and masters the whole thing themselves, in which case the work they've created is their true voice, you won't ever really hear the true voice of an artist unless you see them live.
@@sVieira151 I am aware of lots of things that are done in a studio for a recording. If someone does a vocal and then it is used 2 or 3 times over itself I am still hearing the voice of the singer but just hearing more than 1 of them. It is obvious and still honest as it is indeed obvious. Even live I have no issue with backing vocals on a track (same with the very famous invisible keyboardist who appears with many rock and metal bands for the odd song), you can see and hear that it is recorded. However when it comes to vocals the singer should be singing live (especially onstage) as well as the musicians who should also be plugged in and playing live. There are quite a few smaller bands I see regularly who always tell folks "it is all live.... even the bum notes". I would rather that than fakery. One of the utter crimes going on at the moment is the way older recordings that had nothing wrong with the vocals are now being pitch corrected (the latest Queen track is an abomination due to pitch correction, kind of a slap in the face of Freddie who wouldn't even get his teeth fixed as he felt that could slightly change his delivery). This crap should be stopped in my view.
Yeah, as pointed out by other replies, how does that work? You say what you want, but you don’t explain why. Have you explored why that’s what you want? Like REALLY thought about it? Can you justify (in your own mind) why EQ, reverb, delay, compression (which are all extensively used on vocal recordings) slip under the radar and are natural but tuning isn’t? And that’s before you get into the whole comping 50 takes together into one. That’s no natural. I would offer that your position is the reason artists feel the need to hide the reality of modern recording from you.
@@LeviClay I want to hear the singer actually singing. It isn't that difficult. Surely if most folks are now happy with folks using autotune etc then the artists should be able to say they use it without worrying about losing fans. If an artist is using autotune then I simply would not go and see them. All i am asking is for honesty. Be upfront about it and allow people the freedom to choose whether or not they wish to support that. Both pitch correction and autotune change things and make a singer sound different. I cannot remember who said it but in talking about Steve Marriot and the plans for an AI release "AI has no soul, Steve was soul".
@@madjock-ig5bv do you struggle with reading comprehension? Most folks aren’t happy, but they can’t really articulate why. I promise you. Without a shadow of a doubt. A ton of music you’ve listened to in the last years will have pitch correction on it. Why did you skip the question though? Why does EQ, reverb, delay, and compression get a pass? That’s not the singer actually singing anymore. You’re hearing a dramatically manipulated version of the voice. If a singer singing with a compressor and a de-esser (for the WHOLE song) is you hearing them actually sing, then correcting a SINGLE note by +5 cents (1/20th of a semitone) is you hearing the singer sing.
I've always thought he's a very good, talented vocalist. I dont like how he sounds on Sound of Silence because he sounds pitch corrected, but it doesn't mean that he's not a good vocalist fr. There's definitely an elitist mentality with rock and metal about pitch correction and autotone cause theres this mentality that it means that its correcting poor vocals and therefore not real musicians etc.
What you're missing is that most people don't go to shows like the Sex Pistols, GWAR, Taylor Swift, etc to hear talented musicians, they go purely for the atmosphere and show. Their fans know they're lousy vocalists and/or musicians and they just want to party and enjoy the show. Bands like Nightwish, Disturbed, Lady Gaga, etc are sold to their fans as being talented musicians/vocalists, so they don't want to hear anything that indicates otherwise once they've become invested in them.
With respect my dude Im pretty sure I discussed at length that people don’t go to Taylor/SP/Britney/cher for chops but for the joy. But I think you’re right. Some artists are sold on and live and die by the fact that they’re very talented, and I don’t think autotune erases that, you know? That being said, music is so personal so who knows what’s the best foot forward on these productions. Thanks for watching 😄💪
I think the fallacy is the idea that using pitch correction/autotone means a vocalist isn't talented or highly skilled. It *can* be in some cases, but in most cases it's not. I think more people need to understand that
@@SoulSingerDiscovers The thing about autotune is that most outside the industry only hear of it when critics accuse artists of using it to discredit their talent... whether it's fair or not. So, even if you didn't intend your observation in that manner, that's most likely how the people making those comments heard it.
Well this is a good point? Like if it’s your selling point that you don’t that’s totally fine but if you do why should it be such a problem. Thanks for watching my dude 💪😄
I seen him live. He was sick and was upfront about being sick. A few times in the performance he went up to hit the note and his voice did a weird squeak sound. When this happen he would look down and shake his head almost as if he was disappointed in himself. He is an absolute beast the way he toughed it out.
There’s straight up nothing worse as a singer than being sick. It takes all your top end away and really basic shit becomes so difficult. I feel for him on that one. Thanks for watching my dude 😄
I saw them a few months ago in a small cosy bar. Her vocals were absolutely on point live. Incredible performance. I was a bit sceptical of the band before I went, but my friend was a huge fan and brought me along. One things for sure, I left the gig as a fan! Tell you what though: standing up for a whole gig is getting harder and harder as I get older. After that one, I definitely had to go home and unleash the arches! It's either that or get orthotics.
Ihsahn is Einar's brother in law. He is one of the most respected musician on the Norwegian Metal scene and in the Black Metal community as a solo artist and with Emperor. Speaking of them, they are still performing and they are one of the first bands to come on the Metal scene from the early days of the Norwegian Black Metal scene. The band formed in 1991 in Notodden. Their influence is huge on today's scene.
Thank you so much for this. UTA are another great Canadian Metal band and they are from British Columbia. As a Canuck myself I'm always happy when Canadian bands are recognized world wide. Not only is Miss Skayes an incredible singer but the rest of the band is so good as well. I get that this ain't everybody's style of Metal, but as I like to say: f**k don't give because me likes it a lot. Have a great day.
That was fun and uplifting! Killer vocals, sweet synth and guitar work! For a male vocalist with depth and richness of voice, I suggest the song Might As Well Be On Mars by Alice Cooper. I would Never call You a bitch, unless the word Awesome was in front of it! Your Dudes Love You! Keep up the great work My Fine Scottish Lady! ❤❤❤
Not my kind of metal this time. I just have a hard time standing metal with drums like this. I was feeling it somewhat at the 7:50 mark, there was something nice going on there. And then they immediately ruined it with that solo and subsequent chorus. I'm appreciative of the vocal and other skills and general professionalism of the production. But it's nothing more than objective appreciation, I don't need to hear this again. I guess I'll go tell my therapist.
I love unleash the archers but this album didn’t quite click all the way for me. There’s lots of cool parts but they don’t flow as naturally into each other and really grab you like their last album “Abyss” did, maybe it’s just me 🤷♂️
