you would have a tough time getting any tow identical analog compressors to null. This proves almost nothing. Null testing is almost impossible on compression in the analog domain.
@@OliverShillito It’s definitely my dream mic, I hope one day I’ll be able to afford one. I would love to hear your mix on this recording, so far it sounds pretty nice 👌🏼
hmm, so the zulu, is a bunch of transformers and filters? Bizarre that it's passive, so, it also doesn't really distort, right? Like if you'd push tape, and really get tape saturation, it's not really gonna do that right, especially with the circuit being passive. Tape machine's are full of amplifiers, witch also colour the sound. Also, it's not gonna make any tape wow and flutter obviously. i find all the settings quite suddle to be honest, it sounds great, like running sound through a bunch of fat transformers and passive filters, but it doesn't really do what tape and active amplifier circuitry does to tape. at least the roger's you can really drive it.
Yeah the Roger’s will definitely saturate more! I guess nothing will sound as close to tape as actual tape but to be fair the Zulu isn’t bad as a “colour” box. It’s definitely pleasing on the ear! I’m not a huge fan of the form factor but I believe they now make a 500 series which could be great!
Channel imbalance is the issue in the first half. One of the 2 devices is not properly balanced and the level output is causing the partial null. If you gain match these channels, the null should be fairly complete. The other issue seems to be the attack time. If you measured the pulses you'd have a sense of how different the attack times are. It seems fairly drastic (maybe 10mS) so one design using a different value to the other. Worth trying to determine the value and see if this is a design error they could revise, or if they just went with the new attack time based on preference.
I have more substantial transformered summing mixer, Great River MM20. It does add something, and coloration if you push the mix buss. But, I don't think it's very cost effective, and digital summing actually sounds really good. Maybe a tad more clinical, but I think in a lot of situations one might choose the digital summing. The MM20 does give a slight amount of space, width, heft, and harmonics, but it's not a huge difference and you do have mix into it and push it. I really don't think these are confirmation bias, esp when you live with one for a while and then remove it. But the effect is subtle, and may not be worth it. I do actually hear differences in the intro track, one having more shimmer and space. I'd choose the brighter one for sure.
Sorry but: Ever built such a unit or run a small audio company in the west these days? Fact is, inside the EU you must pay a lot more even for a DIY kit of these units. Even if you run a small business you will have a hard time to put pro handbuild electronics on the market with all the regulations, certifications, insurances, labor, marketing, research, metall cnc work etc before you could fully legal ship out your stuff to the thoman baby powdered end consumer. Also such a giants as Behring have much bigger resources in the east for their components. No comparison to any small builder factory in Europe. That´s the reason all the old tech giants died out. How should a company like Tegeler compete with this? That waa even also the reason why the music group aka behringer could buy a lot of dying brands like klark, tc, midas etc. I dpn´t like that a tech giant copies all the old designs ( including the look ) with cheap workers, a giant infrastructure plus their worldwide distribution power and eats up all the last small boutique builders and the consumer wonders why everything is from china today. I think it´s totally okay to have these big all in one giants like behringer who sells their x32, tool stuff or even smartphones. But that they just copy all the nerd stuff and sucking up their history just for profit rreason is not my taste. Especially in times where you don´t really need that stuff anymore to make better music or mixes which makes any fan listen to you shxt more! People who want it cheap can have their itb plugin stuff and don´t miss any quality today. Why not let the last hardware handbuild market alone for "vinyl" lovers and live and let die ;) peace.
Hey Oliver, Ola here. I think we went through the same thing after MWTM / CLA. As you know I was 95% there getting a small console but in the end bowed out, mainly due to the size of even the small ones. So I went the summing mixer route as well. For two reasons - one hoping to get some of that pushed console thing and the other was being able to set up a hybrid workflow where I could have an analog drum bus, a few parallell compression busses, a few hardware reverbs as sends and all going back to the daw via a summing mixer and a two bus compressor and EQ. I agree the sound difference between sw or hw summing isn't huge. It's there to some extent. But for me the big gain was t be able to set up that flexible hybrid workflow.
@@OliverShillito I get that. If you get a summing mixer solely to have the sound of it imparted I'm not sure it's worth it. I think my main differences come from the various hw buses. A HW 1176 bus, a hw dbx160 bus, a hw drumbus and hw reverbs.
Hi all, a great preset that Joel Hamilton (Studio G - The Black Keys, Nora Jones, Lettuce, Highly Suspect), he puts Deck and Headroom on Lo, Bias on (12 oclock or -) and Enhance on 3 oclock. He then hits this really hot with his SSL 4000 console. Zulu can take rather hot input levels and while it's counterintuitive, you can recover the perspective of lost gain by going in hotter to Zulu. Super hot, occasionally peaking over 0db hot. 😅
The one issue with null test, is that you get the combined difference. So you get a bit of the difference from each unit. I wish there was a test to subtract the difference from each unit. That way we could easier tell if there what is different between the units, possibly trim it. But also the null test, can be up to twice the difference between one unit and the other, if both adds equally amount of difference.
I kinda wish they had stuck with the Klark Teknik badge. It sounds stupid to say it, but the psychlogical effect of having a stigmatised name is hard to shift. It shouldnt be, but it is. I still have gone ahead and ordered one anyway. It will greatly serve my purposes without a doubt.
With my M3 Max laptop, don't need the DSP. Would be nice to have it but right now, I can run a ton of plugins without DSP. Might still be good to have DSP for tracking but didn't need it when I would track my band. Love the fact I can get UAD stuff natively.
dangerous products to me are just lame. checked out the 2bus plus and thought it wasnt doing anything at all really. i do have a neve 5059 though and thats all class A
Both sound great, of course : ) The Bus Plus' top of the upper mid range doesn't quite hit the articulate peak that the C2 does - its close, but as you said, not quite as Hi-Fi - liked the Bus + on the hip hop track tho' felt good Sold vid, Ollie !
Nice demonstration! I have the 76 D, and I concur with all of your comments. I have often wondered how much extra benefit I would get by adding the Opto to the chain. This video beautifully demonstrated the answer. These audioscape pieces just bring out the nuances of the tracks in such a cool, and musical way. Thanks for making the clip!
Now you’re asking! This was many years ago but if my memory serves me correctly. I believe we used a Peluso P12 into an EMI tube preamp, no compression on the way in. All that is done after the fact with the Bluey.
The Neve does sound wider and 'more stereo'. But it could be more about just frequency response. The bright guitars are the widest content. Anything that dulls those probably will make it sound less stereo.
that snare is jacked wayyy to much, whatever is happening. oh and dear bore ringer please come up w new innovative original ideas. you’re a bore as in boring and redundant as eff. please fill the future w the future - not the past.
@@OliverShillito I'm curious how long it would last. Maybe that's just how it feels and nothing will happen. I'm curious. And 1273 clone. I like also Drawmer (1U format 2 channels)...prices are ok.
@@OliverShillito If you do get your hands on a pair, it would great if you could use the same backing track, full and mix to demo it, and may be even use these audio files to do a side by side comparison. I have the 542's and I'm also liking the sound of both the Zulu and Roger Mayer's. Thanks for a great comparison by the way.
I went through this when I finally stopped mixing on a console in 2012. After months of not being able to put my figure on why I like the analog summing more than the DAW. The reason was the default Panning law of +3db in Logic. My console at the time a Midas Legend 3000 had a +6 panning law and the mixes seemed to be more spacious and generally wider after finally matching the panning law in Logic I had a 95% null once time aligned with both my console sum and a DAW sum. I still use a console for tracking since it does speed up the entire process but I mix in the box. I now work with an ATI paragon 2 console, which was designed as API's version of a Live, SSL console with API VCA dynamics, Filters and EQ on every channel. The ATI is great for tracking but I can nearly make a mix null almost 99% with the DAW. So if a console with more electronics in it (from API) can null this closely, then a LINE MIXER (which is what summing mixers are) will not impart much of anything on your product except a differing panning spectrum. Sure some of them like the Rupert Neve designs have saturation built in as a feature and that is understandable as a tool to get that flavor of color. But beyond the color factor they don't really do enough to justify it. Why buy a line summing mixer when you can get a full channel strip with an EQ and mic preamp for tracking? Just my opinion but it is what it is, some people need to believe in magic to feel good about their work and some don't so use what you like. But I strongly suggest looking at it from a objective perspective and test it without bias!
For folks with an 8 channel interface who want to mix through outboard gear, the Dangerous DBox+ gives you summing with optional transformer coloration and ITB monitoring that uses mastering grade D/A conversion. It's an impressive piece of kit with lots of capability.
this is great. now worried about the panning law thing; guess i never understood what that is but oh I think it’s compensation for when something is hard panned which makes the track appearing quieter bc only one channel output so the +6 compensation brings it up plus helps w automation sweeps. if this is accurate?
@@chinmeysway Exactly that. The different panning laws dictate how louder or quieter something is if hard panned, to keep the relative volume the same as if it were centre panned.
Thanks for the comparison. I assume bypassed was omitted to avoid the trolls, but it would have been nice to hear. Not being able to get unity gain out of these two was a turnoff for me when deciding which 500 series tape emu to get.
Yeah the volume loss is annoying to be fair but you get used to it after a while and a good trim plugin. The Zulu being 10db is pretty brutal though haha
@@OliverShillito This Zulu has a good excuse being passive, but Zulu 500 could have unity gain if plugged in and not unity if unplugged. The RM just strikes me as... lazy. I want a 500 module to be compatible with the modules in series before and after it. I don't think an option for balanced I/O is too much to ask for considering the target market and asking price.
Thanks for this. I havent started this vid yet, but I'll share my experience with the Zulu. I really WANT to like it. Would be so great if I could just buy a $1,000 box that sounds like tape...my experience is that it doesnt emulate tape very well at all, and I struggle to notice the effect when volume marched. It certainly does NOT emulate tape compression. I shot it out several times with plugins, and other "tape" hardware, and it always fared poorly...worse than many plugins even
@@dougleydorite not extensively, but I have a lot of material that was processed on several different machines and types of tape. I use them when i compare tape plugins and hardware
Great comparison! I've had a Zulu for a few years and my tip would be to have a line amp or something with a make up gain before the Zulu, so you can drive the Zulu's input. It can handle a lot of level! ;-)
Great Video as usual but I have one question. Would you add the new Zulu 500 in a future shootout? They have some enhanced features & would love to hear your opinion! 😁
What about doing EXACTLY this: BUT EXACTLY!!!! Send a mono song to your sound card and to your NEVE comp, record on 2 mono tracks and flip the phase on one track. THEN come here and make dumb comments. BUT DO THIS TEST !!!!!!!
Man what a relief, I was so frustrated about this, to the point that I was going to put it on sell this week. I updated it after seeing this video, and now I am thinking on buying another 😂 thanks for the tip man!
I had a Warm Audo WA-76 and sold it and for the money I got back, I bought 3 x Klark Teknik 76-KT. Couldn't be happier. I also own the EQP-KT, KT-2A & have just ordered 2 x more EQP-KT for mastering (all re-tubed with vintage Brimar and Matsushita tubes. I'm as happy as a pig in its own excrement ❤❤❤
Great Comparison, but the Lindell Audio 50 & Acustica Pink are much better API emulations. The Waves sounds so flat & lacks the bottom end harmonics that give it depth!
