In the UK you can use gentle leaders and head halters when taking the Kennel Club assessments. To me that is wrong because the dog is not trained to walk on a loose lead to heel. How its allowed I have no idea
Oh, I'm glad I heard what Aimee Sadler said at the end, because my adopted dog has conquered all his problems, including severe fear of road traffic, but one remains, a debilitating fear of fireworks bangs and gunshot bangs. He could be frozen for hours unless I help him unfreeze, but he's still very anxious once he hears a bang..and he stays anxious for days knowing there will be days of it. I need to know what Aimee does for that, because what worked for my dog's other fears are not really working for the fear induced by the fireworks bang. It's not as bad as when I first got him, but it has been 2 years, and only small progress on that.
We almost had to give up my wife’s boxer, nice dog but became very protective of our entire farm . On leash great obedience , easy to work with but of leash whole different animal. After a couple of bad experiences we were about to give the dog away, breaking our hearts . Then came trying e-Colar , having no experience we researched, Ivan, Robert all Excelant dog trainers. Before I put the colar on the dog I put it on my own neck, started lowest setting then brought it up to where I could feel a tingle no shock. So we slowly started on our dog, there is a ringing mode, vibration mode then shock. Within several trading sessions and on tingle mode, Tyson has on felt tingle twice, learned very quickly with ringing and vibrate, our boxer has a shepherd brother that is very obedient off leash when there both playing and get very close to leaving the property 5 hectares , we call them back if they don’t listen just with the ring, both dogs return fast , the shepherd has learned when she hears the ring she comes on recall. Best investment ever, used properly is the most humane device you can use on a dog. Who knows where Tyson would have ended up if it weren’t for the e-collar .
I often think of Tina the dog when I am myself walking round in circles, I feel just at how she initially looked when you first showed her , just a Fact.
As a pet owner with an anxious, reactive, not interested in toys GSD, I really, really needed to hear that it took you a month to get Tina interested in toys. A rising tide lifts all boats. ❤
Even at the start of this, I really wasn’t sure where she was going. The way she defends using the head halter is hilarious! It’s like she thinks using prong collar is putting one on every dog and yanking the death out of it! Funny observing people with such strongly and firmly intrenched views.
i had a pitbull lady ,she never barked,never in her life,she sang with me listening to babra streisand,she growled like hell,when she took an other dog down,not the small once,the big ones,this bigmouthed german shepards,and her love: coward rottweilers,never in her live she barked,and i think she was so self-assured so strong,since her i did not own a dog,because i hate all this loudmouthed cunts
Ive never heard of an reinforcement only trainer that seen some crazy person kicking a dog abusivly and call it training. And as a result of that cut their leg off. Education. Education and education. Thats the solution. I would love to have a no aversives training but i dont want to fail my dog, want to have a off leash dog. Thats why i do some aversives, but mostly play with my dog 🥰
I leash trained with a head halter because it is most definitely the kindest. You don’t cause the dog any discomfort if the leash is not jerked. I still use it, as they are dog reactive and I can turn their heads and lead them away and then reward them for not reacting. I want them to eventually accept the dogs we regularly meet on our walks, not dislike them all the more because they associate them with punishment.
My rescue was feral when I got her and impossible to let off leash. After 2 years of daily long line recall training, her recall was no better than the day I got her. Walks were horrible, she needed to run and I had no where safe to let her run (there were no fenced areas without livestock where I lived). I bought an ecollar (calling them shock collars is BS) and trained her with that, not as a punishment, but as a way of getting her attention. I use the vibrate function and have never used the stim mode above 3/10. She now has full off leash freedom and walks are a joy. It transformed our relationship. People who ban these tools are selfish idiots.
Banning them is incredibly stupid. 90% of training can be done with positive reinforcement, but there are just some things you can't effectively teach without some aversion training. An e-collar, used correctly, is a safe and humane form of correction that can make the point without ever actually hurting the dog. Some dogs are simply not going to respond to positive reinforcement when the temptation is too strong.
Does this include containment e collars? I personally am not able to afford a fence and this is a solution for me. I do not leave her alone but it’s nice to be outside with my dog while we are both in the yard. We contain livestock with electric fences.
I'd argue it's a trigger for many people because on one side, she's bitching about aversives and being "reinforcemente based", on the other hand, she clearly states she does use aversive tools, but it's ok, because she conditions them in the same way everyone conditions dogs to prongs and remote collars. It makes no-fucking-sense. If you prefer using that, good for you. If you think you cannot turn a dog's head with a prong, that's just wrong. Just use a prong for 5 minutes and you'll see it's bullcrap. How come there is just one fucking group of people in dog training who wants to ban these tools? If their techniques worked as well as they said, they wouldn't need to push for government bans of others. Did Apple ask the government to ban Nokias, when the iPhone came out? No! People bought it because they liked it!
No offence but this lady is super contradicting herself.... Just let her talk, talk and talk and then all of her "positive only" illusions are disproved.
She doesn't address that the gentle leader or head halter cover very sensitive nerves around the dogs nose. She has no way of knowing what the dog is experiencing internally. Just because we are conditioning the equipment , that doesn't mean the dog wants it on. I find her argument pretty lame.
Yes, yes! Allowing the dog to be true to it’s nature can be a hard thing for people to do. I have a GSD/BM mix who will happily run around the yard with a ball in her mouth and I have two older Smooth Coated Collies who chase and herd her like she’s a sheep while barking the entire time..sigh 😝 It’s miserable to listen to! They bark at such high decibels my watch warns me I’m in a noise danger zone. My husband, wanting to fix the problem, bought bark collars and put them on them. I took them off later that day and we had quite an argument about it. The Collies’ frustration at not being able to bark while running (without getting zapped) manifested in the unhealthiest way possible. They spontaneously attacked each other in frustration, even later in the evening, when they were in the house. No more bark collars, they may give people hope but are a terrible idea. When the pack is outside together I put ear protection on. It’s on me for owning a breed known as drovers which were bred to drive the herd or flock forward by running and barking. They are doing what their genetics tells them to do and unfortunately for them we don’t have sheep. Now, when I play with and train my Shepherd, they stay in the house because that sh*t might be their joy but it drives me crazy. 😂😂😂
My dog only barks when his inside the apartment. I let him bark and then say quiet, but thank him and pet him as well. I have a pure breed Dutch Shepherd, a protective breed. My dog doesn't react to other dogs and behaves like an angel 😂 outside. His good around people because I expose him but won't allow anyone to pet him. The only human he allows to pet him is me, the trainer and family. Dutch Shepherds are complicated dogs, but with professional training, they strive. Otherwise, all you have is a liability and a killer dog. 😂 Lol
@@jennysantiago2624 On barking. The Dutch Shepherd is an amazing, smart dog. Fun to train, born to guard. Sounds like you've let him to do his thing with rules. That's being fair to the breed. I've done the same with my Cane Corso. She can give a warning bark and then is to come tell me. I used to play-act this scene where I'd go out there as if I was going to kill the intruder with my bare hands (I'm 5'2", 60 yrs fem) and tell her to get behind me. She now relaxes when I tell her it's OK and shuts up when I tell her. Took a while but now I only occasionally act my scene. She works security but I'm the head of security. She's a dog park Corso - dog social and ignores humans. You are right, if you don't train solid behaviour in these breeds, you will get menace to society that you can't take anywhere.
It amazes me how those conversations have not more resonance. So much knowledge with so little of the usual ego bs of modern YT dog experts. Thanks guys!
So insightful and surprising. I was curious if he was referring only to Belgian Malinois or, since he is on a tight buying budget, was his department also including high performing GSDs?
She’s so annoying and arrogant. Her narrow minded approach to training in “well this is what works for my dogs! So your method is inhumane!” Is what’s killing the dog community. They’re so centered around their own dogs and training that they don’t realize that there are other dogs in the world that learn differently, have different trauma stories, and respond to things differently. She can keep her trophies. 🙄
“…we don’t try to seek to change people, we try to figure out what they need to change about their situations in order to improve their lives.” Fundamentally simple yet incredibly powerful. I adopted a child 30 years ago and at the time, nature vs nature in adoption was raging. I was egotistical enough to believed that nurture was more powerful than nature aka genetics. Nope, it is not. Thousands of truthful, adoptive parents would say the same. We definitely provided the most loving environment to help shape behavior but if you get a kid with learning or personality disorders, no amount of nurturing will make that kid not have those disorders. Good parents (like good dog owners) get the needed professional help, put in the time and effort and help that child (or rescue dog) become the best version of him or herself. Same darn thing with horses. I used to rescue horses before dogs. With my first horse I gave a song and dance about it’s awful history/neglect and my instructor said, “it doesn’t matter what happened in the past, you look at the horse in front of you now and work with what you have.” I raised Lipizzaners back when and you better believe genetics mattered. If a stallion, with correct confirmation, couldn’t perform at the highest levels at the Spanish Riding School, he didn’t breed their mares…instead he was sold to Americans who didn’t know any better 😂😂😂 we were so ignorant back then and most of us weren’t good enough trainers to even know the difference. Finally the Spanish Riding School began an annual inspection of our breeding stock while educating us during the process, what a difference that made to future quality.
Thank you for the information. I saw a difference in my first child that was noticeable in her mom. Organization and neatness. At 16 months old in a new apt. her first time there, she knocked over a record brush I had standing on end on the floor. She picked it up and put it right before continuing on.
I have watched all the original video. And I can not understand how such an accomplished trainer as Susan Garret undoubtedly is, can be so full of bullshit. Obviously a skill of training dogs does not go always hand in hand with an honest and sincere personality. I would have not have the respect and patience like Ivan did. The debate showed very clearly, that we will not win with arguments and proofs here. When we show a reliable, trained happy dog, which likes what it is doing and is well adapted to any (urban) environment, they say it is abused and mistreated and that they can produce better result, even when to this day I have seen not one (!) of them. With a trainer and personality like she is, you dont talk about personal difference of values, and science even, because then you are running in their bullshit circles all day long. You can learn something in the areas and procedures they are good on, but you should never, ever be convinced to enter a debate about false science. In other words: we can talk about good training, of any kind, positive reinforcement one or with aversives, but not about a simple, proven fact, that positive only doesn't work, we can say for a great majority of dogs, not just the most reactive ones. We will never reach an agreement this way. They are winning with their narrative of moral high ground bullshit and religious unproven fundamentalism. Their strategy is better: ridiculing and attacking everyone who doesn't agree with them, negating all the proven results (but here we fail, because such hypocrisy is fundamentally absent in a mature and balanced person) and lobbying through money and politics. They have vets and pharmacy on their side and even politicians. We have dog equipment manufacturers, working people, and content dog owners, who are able to have and control their dogs. And in time, politicians will come also. We should be winning, but not this way. Let me just say, that I enjoy your channel, Ivan and that I have the utmost respect for You, your courage and true interest in the wellbeing of dogs. I have watched you competing in my country with great interest and joy. This comment was just my reflection after watching this and the original video. Best wishes from Europe! Maybe now You understand my frustration a little bit more.
Her dogs suffer much more than most dogs trained with prong or e-collar. She does not let the dog do anything, restricts them so much so that she can bribe them better into doing what she wants and making sure, they never know anything good in life but her bribes.
It took over 6 mins for a top trainer to agreed that a head halter is a negative reinforcement tool. Personally I feel it is more an aversive tool with problematic dogs to restrict head movement especially with these kind of dogs.
I know of a trainer/rehabilitator that works with extreme aggression cases (dogs that have done horrific things to other dogs or people) and he uses zero tools, except for a simple leash when it’s time for the walk portion of the rehab. I’ve looked all over the internet for over 15 years for someone that can rehabilitate dogs with the most minimal hands free approach possible. I can name over 50 dog trainers that Ive come to know of over the years and I believe this guy is the best I’ve ever seen. Energy/body language is a very powerful tool, and the human becoming the tool is what I believe we should aspire to accomplish. If it weren’t for the internet I would have never heard of him and my work with dogs with bite histories would not be nearly as advanced as it is now. I think the internet can give people alot of bad, misleading advice and delusions of grandeur but this guy to me is The Real Real Deal. His name is Brandon Fouche
Just because the "Haltie" is positively conditioned prior to using it as a tool- doesn't make it "none aversive". We do condition any tool (e-collar, prong collar,leash) positively. Is the use of those tools then going to be labled "none aversive"?
Hey there, my 2 cents for what it's worth, lol. If we spend the time to have proper leadership and develop engagement....would we need to use a head halter or prong collar to turn the dogs head away from the direction of another dog in this example. For me it is ok for the dog to look and even be curious, but it would not be ok to pull, jump, be reactive or aggressive towards the other dog if in doubt I want my dog to look to me for leadership and direction. Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and experience with us it is very much appreciated.
Well, Susan, frequencey doesn't not exlude an action not being a pos punishment or neg reinforcement. AND, one does not need to always utilize a prong collar as an immediately snappy action. Personally, I use the prong collar in various forms, for example, light little tugs as communication for a behavior and various levels of snappy action as a pos punishment. Way better communication device than the flat collar for my drivey Malinois. I also conditioned my dog as a puppy to use prong by teaching her how to turn off pressure. I put it on he and she's happy. My doggo knows the rules, and to be honest, when she gets antsy is when she starts to act out a bit. I use the prong, she snaps out of it and she's happy go lucky again. Simple. Why? Because we have a relationship, with established rules and boundaries. I had a previous doggo I used a head halter on, he was always miserable, and that neck pulling? My god, he was a rescue with severe issues surrounding other dogs. He wacked his own neck a few times by attempting to run towards another dog. OUCH. Terrible and degrading device.
