Hi Hilary - see my comment below. If you're using JackTrip it's changed a lot since the time these videos were made so you can use their servers and do things very differently now. You can check out their site for more info on that, or try other apps like the ones I mentioned below. Good luck!
Hilary, these videos are from 3 years ago and although the basic principles mostly still apply, the software has evolved a lot in that time, both JackTrip and other new ones that have emerged. If you're looking for practical setup advice it's probably best to go to the JackTrip resources or do the same for whatever other app you might want to use, such as Sonobus or FarPlay, to mention a couple other options.
@@michaeldessen Thanks I'll try a bit more but ave a guy over who really knows what he's doing and the setup has taken work. Everything lights up but no consistent sound
Hello, very nice ... please, how did you synchronized tempo between these two players? Yes, they should hear each other, but for more players you need conductor, so ... is there some possibility to do it without metronome with video at least from conductor side?
Hi Jaroslav. In this performance, as explained in the parts 1-2 videos, we had latency low enough that we could play together as if we were in the same room. We didn't need a metronome and never use one for this kind of music. What determines whether you need a conductor or not is the nature of the music and the amount of latency you have, not strictly speaking the number of players. If you have a large ensemble in the same geographic region with low enough latency to play together with tight synchrony, then you could use a conductor and the only drawback would be for the conductor, who would hear a longer than usual delay between their motions and the sounds. You can also synchronize to metronome output but this raises a lot of different questions about latency and the specific nature of the music you are playing. It's a complicated discussion. In case it helps I have an article here that answers some of those questions: <mdessen.medium.com/networked-music-performance-an-introduction-for-musicians-and-educators-d31d33716bd2> Good luck!
@@michaeldessen Thank you. I have to solve basic problem - JackTrip is only sound, so I need another platform for video. I try to make something for our choir, so we need to see conductor.
Interesting, did you try with a lower frequency, like 22k ? or midi ? would it help with latency ? I leave in remote Yunnan, so i am much interested with this technology.
Midi is much faster (lower latency) than audio. When networking audio, sample rate, buffer size and many other factors as well as network quality all matter (it's complicated), but the limit for achieving one-way latency under the 30ms threshold for tightly synchronous playing is about 500-600 miles. This video explains it a bit more: www.npr.org/2020/07/14/891091995/playing-music-together-online-is-not-as-simple-as-it-seems
Are people working on a follow up- app, that would give us these possibilities easier (instalationwise) ... so that the connecting-process is as easy as a skype-call?
Lots of things in the works including versions of jacktrip but I'd suggest you try Jamulus (and also maybe SoundJack, but probably if you're looking for the easiest thing try Jamulus). Good luck...
@@michaeldessen It worked out - I had the video playing on my phone for volume and I synced it up to watch on my laptop! BTW - THANK YOU for the tutorial! I was wondering what your video recording configuration was? Are you recording audio through a separate digital interface? I find ASIO4ALL messes up some playback functions on my laptop when I switch back from using it as my DAW. Anyway - I got it to work. Thanks again. Jeff
@@secretmole I'm still confused about why people report this audio problem on some formats but I can't reproduce it and other people don't hear it. But I don't remember the details of how I recorded it (I'm on a Mac using final cut, maybe with an interface, not sure). Thanks for watching!
This program would be ideal in an online class situation with chamber groups. Is there a way for school students to set this up for use on their iPads at home? The set-up seems daunting.
The challenges are that it's complicated to setup and use and that good results require a decent audio interface and mic. Currently tablets/phones/wifi are not possible but many people are working on solutions and in the future there will be more options. Some teachers find jamulus workable, some even use jacktrip though not many. I'm working on an article aimed at music educators but haven't quite finished it yet... Good luck!
Hello Michael, I have two questions (for now), first how much RAM should I have for a smoother use of JackTrip? Secondly, I want to use this specially for drumming (djembes, world percussion) for instruction and being able to hear each other. Will this work for this purpose? Thank you again.
Hi Nicole. Most computers will have enough RAM and that isn't usually a problem. The second question is hard to answer yes/no - sorry... It could work but depends on a lot of details. This more recent video and the ones after it might help, but it's a big topic: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uYRo0R5_qx4.html&feature=emb_logo I'm working on a practical article that will hopefully help musicians/teachers think through these kinds of questions but it's not out quite yet... Good luck!
Total newbie here....I have the Jack and Jacktrip apps installed and working...I fail to see how this works conjunction with a video conferencing app such as Zoom. Do I open a session in Zoom with my counterpart, then connect via jack trip? Or vice versa? Do I need to set up outputs/inputs differently if I'm using video conferencing? feeling a bit at a loss...any help gladly welcome.
I'm not sure I understand the question but Jacktrip is audio only. You could use Zoom for video and mute Zoom's audio, if you want to see your partner. They won't be in sync because Jacktrip is quicker.
@@michaeldessen Ah! OK that makes more sense. So, I can see my partner, but the video won't be in synch with the sound, but our sounds could be in synch and that's all that matters to me...Thank you!!
How exactly was this recorded, as the resulting audio is stereo? Presumably you were recording your mic locally along with the JackTrip remote audio on two separate tracks?
@@michaeldessen Just reporting that I have the same issue. Very low volume voice, I have to pump up the volume so much that when the music starts it hurts my ear.
@@MrEvitaerc thanks but I can't reproduce the problem on any devices so that's very strange! I don't know of a way to boost the audio, or what could be causing that. Sorry.
@@michaeldessen Same here. Volume is almost zero when you're talking, but when the music comes in, it's very loud. It's the exact same on all of your tutorial videos for some reason. All other RU-vid videos work perfectly fine.
Yes, I knew Thad and his whole family (a trombone family...). We all studied with the great trombone teacher (later composer then lawyer) Bruce Reinoso. Thad is now a legend for his important work in politics and political science! Thanks.
I'm not getting the connection to work. I live in Brazil and I have this question: My internet service should provide me "external ip" right? Otherwise my IP extracted from any website showing my external IP will not allow the client to connect to my server. Am I right?
Hi Tulio. I tried to document what I know about ports, etc. in the Network section of this doc, so please read that and if you need more, hopefully your ISP or someone else can help: <docs.google.com/document/d/1YLX8NatB_Ktdr24LyVg7h_P3zwG1lh1D0A0e733mCYo/edit>. Good luck!
@@michaeldessen Thanks a lot. I found out that is exactly that. Here in Brazil (don't know about other countries) they don't provide a fixed IP. So I tested in my local network using my macbook and my wife's and it worked. Not perfect, but I think it was because her macbook is running Catalina, so I can't run Jackpilot. Thanks for all the help.
Túlio, perhaps they do give you an IP address that changes through the time. Maybe the reason you couldn’t get it working could have been a firewall blocking the connection, which could be on your service provider, your router or your machine. Did you check for this? Also check the “port forwarding” option on your router.
@@TulioAraujo Olá Túlio. Eu moro em Vitória ES. Consegui configurar para funcionar sem precisar acionar o provedor de serviços .precisei configurar no roteador o Port forwarding. Não precisei de IP fixo. Nem precisei derrubar meu firewall. Se quiser trocar email comigo, tento explicar ... pimenteldias@gmail.com
I'm trying to do the Stanford course on kadenze about Jacktrip, I'm having difficulties connecting on Mac Catalina 10.15. Can someone point me to some tutorial, please?
Hi Paul. If you're taking the Kadenze course, I hope you can ask there... but unfortunately Catalina has brought new challenges because the Jack Pilot app (a GUI for Jack server) no longer works on Catalina. I don't have Catalina so I can't test it myself yet but I added some notes to a doc that I share with people about this, just based on what I've heard from others. Info on Catalina is slowly getting clearer as more people test it, and it may or may not work for you, but my own best guess right now about what to try is in this doc under the section "JackTrip on Macs", the Catalina part: docs.google.com/document/d/1YLX8NatB_Ktdr24LyVg7h_P3zwG1lh1D0A0e733mCYo/edit#heading=h.7v9by67xb8ig
Thank you so much for the detailed look into this system. I had been looking at possibly installing it and trying it out. I've been using a popular software which hosts 'sessions' on a central server then sends playback to each person. The results have been generally good, unless someone has a poor wired connection/service or is trying to use wifi when a hard wire is the first criteria required. I like the fact that you can use this program to route audio to and from a DAW in apparently a 'seamless' fashion. It seems to be an excellent cost savings choice for doing recording if you have an associate too far from the studio, or your home to practically book studio time. Each player can play on their own equipment in the comfort of their own rehearsal space. The only issue appears to be a matter of how far away before the latency becomes an issue. For local musicians within a 50 mile radius, this is almost a perfect scenario.. Could this be where the future of music performance may go? Or at the very least, it could provide an alternative to someone canceling a performance if they aren't feeling well enough to go to a performance venue, unload their gear, setup, soundcheck, perform, and then do everything in reverse. It's not necessarily quite the same as having someone live in the same space playing, but it can still be great if the technical issues can be ironed out and the sound/video(if needed) quality is adequte. Something else which came to mind. There are some very gifted individuals who are amazing players, but maybe have issues interacting with others and socially have difficulty being around other people or large crowds. This could be a way to share someone's unique talent with the world from the safety of their own home or studio. How many years have gone by where there may have been an amazing generational talent in a community which has gone unnoticed, and their gift hasn't been shared with their community, let alone the rest of the world. Could we be finding a way for those specially 'touched' individuals to be able to contribute and be given their chance to impact the world of music?
It could be many things, but if both machines are running Jack properly and your JackTrip commands are correct, then the most common reason for that error is firewall problems. Both server and client must correctly set up port forwarding so they can receive UDP connections on port 4464. On a home network you do this by editing the settings on your router and at an institution you have to talk with your Network Administrator.
@@yandiandaputra6186 You may be able to run the server through Qjackctl by setting the server path to "/usr/local/bin/jackdmp". But it can vary depending on the version you're using and the OS version. It can take a lot of experimenting but the jacktrip users list is also a great place to ask questions and share information (to get better answers it helps to share details like your platform - mac/windows/linux and specific OS, which software versions you're using, etc.)
Hello, I would like to know what exactly was exchanged in the s6 channels of audio. Can you exchange more than that or it will increase the latency?. Great project!, thanks for sharing!
Sorry I missed this comment earlier. You can send as many channels of audio as your bandwidth allowed. The number of ch itself doesn't technically impact latency but if you are sending more than your bandwidth can handle then yes, you'll get problems because you'll have "dropped packets". There's more info elsewhere online and more coming all the time including more recent videos people are producing about this and other tools... Good luck!
This is so beautiful !!, I am a live and studio sound eng. starting to get into live streaming and this is something so well done!. I wish I could get involved and a similar project here in Chicago!. Thank you for sharing ! it looks great and sounds great!
Hi John! Yes, I agree it's a great medium to develop new kinds of music, and I've been working on that too for many years. (Here's a recent example: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rYbxWH5sjh4.html). These videos are for people who want to play in tight synchrony, which I also enjoy.
Hi Jacob. Yes, I've seen Ninjam which seems more like a way to play groove based music by linking everyone at a larger level like measures (?). That is great if it works for your music, but doesn't interest me personally so much.
Hi, Is there anywhere a tutorial on how to setup networking audio with Jacktrip on Windows? I see the software exists but other than the basic install instructions, I haven't found any networking configuration instructions anywhere as they exist for Linux & OSX? Thanks!
Here are a couple links: ccrma.stanford.edu/~cc/153resources/win10/jacktripInstaller/ and. most of all this one: ccrma.stanford.edu/software/jacktrip/windows/index.html Good luck!
@@michaeldessen Nope. That's exactly what I was talking about...the software and basic install instructions. No configuration, manual or instructions on how to setup and get it running. Too bad.
Hi, thanks for the video, i would like some help with my conecctions, when i put system - system, inmediatly i have a feedback, in spite of i'm using a M-Audio. What can i do in this case? Thank you!
Sorry I missed this comment from so long ago Jenny! Maybe you've moved on but fyi, you may get feedback if you route system capture (i.e. input) to a system playback (i.e. output) because that means you're sending the mic input into a speaker which is probably playing in the same room as the mic, so it can cause feedback if the speaker is pointed at the mic. You can solve it by using headphones or moving the mic so it's not getting sound directly from the speaker. Sorry if this is obvious and I'm totally misunderstanding your question but good luck!
Hi! Thanks for the video! If I understand it correctly, I need to have two instances of jacktrip running on a multi-channel server to able to connect two or more clients together? Is this still relevant with the -S (capital S) option in the newer version? I'm struggling to get it work, and it seems to be some routing problem (they all connect, and I can see corresponding threads). I want to connect two clients two one server and basically route them via the server to make some analysis tests of the resulting sound. I'm using Lubuntu for both clients and server in a virtualized environment with Qjackctl and Jacktrip... Peer-to-peer is able to send and receive sound (at least one way) but with the server variant it's all silent..
Hi d vibe, so sorry I only saw this comment now! I never use youtube. In case you still have the question: I'm not sure I can troubleshoot your problem with that info because I don't know Lubuntu but one suggestion if you're only receiving sound one way is to make sure it's not a port problem. Sometimes if UDP ports are not open (default is 4464 and if you have a second client you'd need another with an offset) you can get audio one way only because the machine with closed ports can send out audio but not receive it. Also, I don't know what you mean by -S (capital S) because that's news to me and I don't see it in my current version of jacktrip. But I hope you've found a way by now and apologize again for the long delay in seeing this! Good luck.
Hi wondering if you can help ? I have jack trip setup on 2 win 10 pcs , I can send and receive audio one way only , any suggestions why the send and receive going the other way isn't working I have tried everything and I am exausted ? Please any suggestions is appreciated .thanks
Often that's a firewall issue on one end, preventing UDP from working one way. Sometimes it's also just a hardware or routing setup issue that prevents one site from properly getting the sound into or out of JACK to begin with. For the latter you can test routing sound locally via JACK to make sure everything is working properly.
Thanks Michael that fixed it i added UDP ports and made sure this rule >under programs>said SYSTEM . Can i trouble you for 1 more problem please . I am having issues trying to add more than 4 outputs to jack trip . 4 send/receive seems to work and both PC's connect perfectly . Soon as i change the CMD script of jack trip outputs from -n4 (4 outputs ) ,to -n6 (6 outputs /or more ) then the client jack trip displays 6 send/receive inside jack audio and the CMD window displays waiting for peer. The peer CMD window hangs displaying waiting for connection from client, and does not connect , If i swap the client and peer CMD's around so client is the opposite PC etc , it does exactly the same thing . Why does it work for 4 but not more ? Am i doing something wrong ?? Thanks
Are you running the same -n number in the command on each machine (client and server)? That's required... If you are, then I'm not sure I understand the description of the setup, i.e. what you mean by "swap the client and peer CMD's around so client is the opposite PC etc". Both have to have the same number of channels specified in the -n command, so try that if you're not already. If that's not it, then it's probably beyond me. The jacktrip users group is a great resource because it's inhabited by real networking experts and programmers (unlike me!) - groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jacktrip-users Good luck! michael
Hi Michael i figured it out , my desktop PC has a baby face sound card which has 12 outputs , so the max i can use in jack trip is 12 , however the -r packets need to equal jack-trip outputs divided by sound card outputs , so if i use jack trip with all 12 outputs then the packets must equal -r1 , and so on . All the best thanks for all you help.
Hi, Michael. I'm trying to install the jacktrip. After I entering my password, report: Operation not permitted. don't know what's wrong. I'm using the OSX El Captain. Hope can get help from you. Thanks
Hi Taizhi - I"m not sure I can help you with just that information since it's not clear where you're entering your password and at what stage of the process. Do you mean in terminal when running the terminal sudo commands?
sorry I didn't explain clearly. Yes I mean in the Terminal after typing the "sudo cp jack trip /usr/bin/ " and giving my password. It shows Operation not permitted. Thanks a lot. : )
Taizhi, unfortunately I'm travelling and short on time right now but also that sounds like more of a Terminal/Unix problem than a jacktrip problem so if you can find someone experienced with Unix they could probably help you figure that out easily. Sudo commands require root user admin access so maybe you don't have the privileges or it could also be you're not using the "cd" command to get to the right directory so that you're trying to run the sudo commands on a directory that doesn't allow it. Good luck!
It might be Apple's System Integrity Protection, go here to figure out how to get around it. stackoverflow.com/questions/32659348/operation-not-permitted-when-on-root-el-capitan-rootless-disabled
Sorry I never saw this comment from 3 years ago! But fyi the image is a painting from this series by this artist: <www.sotodiaz.com/public_html/wordpress/portfolio/colors-ordinates-and-affinities-instructions-for-chromatic-living/>
Hey Michael James - Thanks, good to hear from you. I've heard about SoundJack but haven't used it. My collaborators and I got into JackTrip through the folks that wrote it and since it has worked well for us and meets all our needs we haven't really experimented too much with other audio software. (Video is another story - the experimenting there feels endless because there are so many options but all with diffferent advantages/disadvantages...) FYI, JackTrip works well on Linux though I'm not a linux user myself. Good luck with it all!
Hey Michael. Great video! Have you tried SoundJack www.carot.de/soundjack/ If you go to my youtube channel there is a video of me (located in Wisconsin) playing the the creator of SoundJack "Alex Carot" in Germany. If you ever want to try it out let me know. I am a Linux user also, I could set up Jack Trip in Linux if want to try it. Nice trombone playing! I am jazz guitarist. I taught 10 years at the university.
Luis: To get really good sound you might need higher bandwidth than most consumer ISPs provide. But you might look into the Jamlink boxes from a company called Musicianlink. They are a lot simpler to use and work well, though the sound is compressed. But for rehearsal purposes for rock music it might work - I think that's a big part of their market, bands with needs like you're describing. Check them out - not free but possibly a good solution... Good luck! - michael
Michael, great video, i play guitar on a rock band and we are trying to use Jacktrip to jam on line for composing some songs and after rehearse on studio, it is possible? Bassist, Guitarrist, drummer and singer on line....
So sorry I never saw this comment! I updated the note about home connections in the notes below the video, please see if that answers your question. Good luck!
Hi Michael. This is great... so nice to see a simple, straightforward discussion of how to get this program working from the ground up. I'm sure this will prove useful to many just starting out with network audio... Regards from Sydney, Ben
