Recent development on building the commons and communities amid collapse is "Design School for Earth Regeneration" with the development and spread of bioregional learing centres. I find these inspiring as they are entirely community / bioregional based - from the ground (land) up. Joe Brewer, the co-founder is an innovative, non-conventional thinker worth checking out.
Yes, we know Joe Brewer, but will investigate more, thanks. We're more focused on how to make commons infrastructure available to people in working-class communities. I think that's essential. Most of the world is working-class, and they don't really have ways in to the commons.
Talk to your neighbors, yes. But mostly listen to them. The people living on your block are the only ones who will be able help as the system unravels. Good luck to us all.
Both good and bad in this interview. Jem raises the idea of "the commons". Back in 1968, Garrett Hardin published "The Tragedy Of The Commons". For decades afterwards economists, especially neoliberalist economists who were coming into the limelight (Thatcherism, Reaganomics, etc) disputed both the idea of a "tragedy", and of a "commons". Elinor Ostrom, who denied she was strictly speaking an economist, was finally awarded the so-called "Nobel Prize" in economics, (Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel) for her "Governing the Commons" in which she outlined some communitarian solutions to "The Tragedy". Back even in the '50s and '60s, Murray Bookchin had already been discussing Anarchist ideas. A later essay by him in 1991 entitled "Libertarian Municipalism: A Politics of Direct Democracy", precedes what Jem speaks and writes about here. Theoretically, communism could have been a route to follow, but we can read about the disastrous annexation by "the centre" of say "collective farms". Stalin, and even Lenin, both wanted a central Russia, not a collective of collectives. Anarchism became eventually for Bookchin, communalism, an even less dominated community. (Communalism, the Democratic Dimension of Anarchism. theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-communalism-the-democratic-dimension-of-anarchism ) Fragmentation of a central State might be what is required for "democracy"? But, for some reason, we like to aggregate into States. Is bigger really better? (Jem mentioned "Small is Beautiful") Maybe we're assuming there's safety in numbers? I'm not clear why Jem chose to attack the most liberal (sensible) of British newspapers, the Grauniad. Even in his sphere "academic" journals are influenced to some extent. Jem might remember the "Sokal affair"? The Grauniad is certainly "better than" say the Daily Mail, or what used, in past years, to be the (sensible and reliable) Times.
Yes, I think we'll need to move away from centralised nation-states for anything remotely like a democratic system. Problem with the Graun is that it's absolutely statist / centralist. (and 'progressive' - i.e. a supporter of linear tech / economic 'progress' / growth).
Great interview! I especially like the Left/eco-Libertarian discussion, as I'm an ex-Green who went through the looking glass during the pandemonium, don't recognise my old Green buddies anymore, but am not always comfortable with the values of the Freedom-loving Right.
I'm an Economic History graduate student doing my dissertation this year somewhat relating to it. Making Democracy Work (Putman, 1993) is a good additional book that discusses the different civic history of Italian regions and how that played a big role in their present culture (shared values), in it he discusses ER alot. Ultimately it comes down to trust and coops historically have always been divided on sectarian lines (religion mostly) in most of Europe. Emilia-Romagna and North Italy had republics, while Southerners had an autocratic history so people kept to themselves, less prone to work together, and less trust in institutions. Sicily's coop push since the 1990s hasn't been successful due to the different culture. Many other reasons as well. As Matt mentioned, ER also was one of the first regions (apart from Lombardia) to industrialize due to large-scale farming (leading to innovation).
Our best hope might be that space aliens arrive, read the riot act to the business and political leaders and put up a huge sign saying: UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT
Even if you believe that man made C02 is a component of climate change, your measures would not move the needle. However there are plenty of good reasons to use renewables, where appropriate and reducing wastage wherever possible. It's not possible to use renewables as we have them, to maintain business as usual. Glad to see you are looking at all forms of energy demand, not just electric. The main issue is keeping control of any systems that are developed in the hands of the users. So the community credit voucher scheme along with local grids, sounds promising. We must avoid at all costs, falling into the thrall of the WEF, globalist version of "sustainability" or the conventional "free" market actors. Sovereignty of the people is the base to work from, if resource efficiency becomes the main driver, we will end up creating a technological tyranny in the name of saving the planet (which can survive quite well regardless of us). The problem we have, as those wanting to create a healthy, free way of life, is that the environmental movement has been co-opted by the establishment, the globalist ideologues and corporate interests, using climate change as the Trojan horse. So we are caught between business as usual and a wolf in sheep's clothing (the WEF, UN etc) and their shills like Extinction Rebellion. The idea presented here sounds full of potential, especially the Unlimited Company model. One thing I would say is that if your vouchers are in kWH and they are universally tradable, won't we still be subject to non local market forces taking control of our energy systems?
Humans are not capable of saving themselves from themselves. Our species lacks the requisite control over our emotions and we tend to be unable to accept our own reality. Our intelligence is not refined enough.
whether he calls himself a doomer or a doomster I love these guys either way :D. God if ther was a convention of doomers I would hug each and every one of them :D :D
Great interview! Thank you both a lot for that. Hope the work of you both will be successful and have great impact. One concrete question: I do not understand the term "extractive system" and couldn't find a good translation for it into German.
a system (capitalism, for example) in which wealth is sucked from the many / the margins / working people, communities and concentrated at the centre in the hands of the few.
Oil maybe bad. But if you’re against oil you must teach the truth. The U.S. declared bankruptcy in 1971. The U.S. only retained power globally cause oil was sold in dollars. Let’s abandon oil. But then let’s actually grow a pair and send the military out of Saudi Arabia and abandon the military bases in foreign countries. Do you know how polluting and dirty it is for the U.S. to run nato??? It’s fine for the U.S. to abandon oil, but for the love of good please give up global power and reduce consumption and war. That means if Russia wants Ukraine let Russia have Ukraine. End of story. Pollution wise the U.S. needs to stop being involved in foreign wars cause wars directly causes pollution and wastes tons of oil.
MIT said in the 1970s society was going to collapse. I’m still waiting. But it’s not capitalism collapsing but rather crony capitalism or Keynesian capitalism of big government creating demand and bailing out rich Wall Street which keeps bill gates and Jeremy etc rich and happy. Capitalism existed before 1913 and before the U.S. had a private central bank or the federal reserve paying dividends to shareholders. Capitalism actually existed in the 1800s believe it or not. Why don’t people acknowledge this? It is recency bias? Idk.
LIBERTARIANISM WAS HIJACKED BY THE RIGHT BY SIMPLISTICALLY IDENTIFYING LIBERTY WITH NO GOVERNMENT IGNORES THAT CORPORATE POWER IS AN UNACCOUNTABLE TYRANY ANATHEMA TO LIBERTY.
Capitalism is not, nor will it 'collapse' unless by some disaster, lefty idealogues somehow manage to attempt to destroy it deliberately by getting control of political systems. Even then all that will happen is that it will continue, albeit underground until the idiocy of the left wears off when confronted by the reality.
The reason the orthodontist earns more than the babysitter is because the orthodonists skills are rare and have taken many thousands of hours to develop. The babysitter required 2 minutes training. Any attempt to equalize this is called communism, and destroys any motivation to develop any skill - after all what is the advantage to wasting years of time training for a worthless occupation that has the same reward as babysitting
I really loved A Small Farm Future. But the topic of draft animals was not addressed. 😊 Draft animals made civilization possible in the pre-petroleum era, and they could be our colleagues in the future too.
Seriously...The ONLY possible way to completely avoid all the fighting, violence, death and destruction of this system collapsing (and there is no question it is collapsing) would be to make it financially worthwhile for people to SHARE the jobs we would democratically agree we NEED to have done and work much LESS...it's the only thing that could guarantee that peoples NEEDS never stop being met while at the same time completely putting an end to this insane infinite growth system on a finite planet.
I'm afraid state socialism is a necessary economic phase that enables - once it is a worldwide phenomenon, which hasn't been tried yet - the higher communist phase when the state withers away. As Jem himself says he has come to conclude, it is a process. Today's state increasingly centralised planned state monopoly capitalism is one evolutionary (yet revolutionary) step away from a centrally planned state monopoly socialism. I say this a) reluctantantly and b) as someone who admires what you're doing. But the objective empirics bear the reality out: grossmanite.medium.com/capitalism-in-terminal-decline-the-compelling-empirical-data-trends-4c409459bdfc I'd be happy to have a comradely discussion with you on your channel.
I don't know what doomer groups Jem is studying, but the doomers I follow are not like that. They're more like Jem. People like Paul Erlich, Elliot Jacobson, Sam Mitchell.
Yes whatever we do in this system. Seems to be without perspective. The very richest rule the world maybe without knowing about the real dangers and technically it could be possible to organise drawdown at scale. That'll be most urgent
Since capitalism is obviously NOT collapsing but is simply universally generic, there is nothing to react to, and nothing to discuss, save to ask why some industrially ill educated types suggest it is!
i am an ecological activist and monetary reformer... I think we need radical socio-economic change... But I think overshoot is the main disaster. Still a climate skeptic, here... I think that climate and co2 distracts people frome the disaster of techno-industrial overshoot and how billionaires and millionaires are the main burden... as is, indeed, the system that forces us all in destructive lifestyles, as Jem says. Jem is one of the very intelligent people who understands the monetary issue. That is great. On climate, I think we could have long and interesting discussions. I don't like the word. I prefer overshoot or eco-system breakdown. As a former professional arborist... I think we need more trees. And a global, ineterst-free mutual credit system... and abolishing the stock-market and corporations.
I saw both sides of product manufacturing. No profit, no product. Sell the company or go bankrupt. Workers try to get as much as they can or go on strike. All the countries are investigating alternatives. The people NEED capitalism and democracy. Artificial intelligence is "silent, fast pay less worker". India is adopting. 1. Adhar-card goes with "personal Government bank account". Pay and get paid. Transactions take less than a minute. #1,280,000,000 Adhar cards. As many cell phones. As many transactions/day. 5 petabits size. Millions of personal (Bank to Bank) transactions/Hour. Digital Economy. (Fake money from Pakistan-Nepal-India) No human involvement and no "cheating". No clerical work at the bank teller's booth. (Pakistan is going bankrupt) 2. Walmart goes bankrupt in India. Open Net Work- Digital Commerce. Eg. Dinky little peanut vendor in the corner next to Walmart can make a profit at the end of the day see the profit on his cell phone. Govt. publishes the average price of millions of products (sold in India) digitally and one can identify it on a cell phone. Walmart and Peanut vendors should follow those prices. Equal competition. (Walmart can't sell cheaper until the small vendor goes bankrupt) 30% of India's market is small vendors. This helps small families living independently buying and selling. (This is not for the US market) 3. Black money in India makes up 50% of the economy. Every day it changes from black to white. This is almost stopped and govt. banks are profitable. This also means Govt. clerks can't take money under the table. Customers still can pay money to the clerk and get things done. He/she has to pay tax to govt. or lose jobs. The chief ministers lose money if the clerks can't take money. There is a big fight in the states because they don't make money, they can't buy votes, and can't get elected! Clean governments, bring more foreign investments. Digital payments and the digital economy promote Capitalism while maintaining democracy. This is being tested in India. Several countries are trying to imitate this version.
I have a much simpler answer...NO !...well not in any meaningful sense, No matter what happens the consensus of the elite will be "more of the same...and they have all the levers to keep this. Instead i would see Corporations becoming instruments of government, i.e. privatised Government..We are all supposed to believe the fearmongering of the elites..it makes us more controllable..just remember this, the elites dont see us as indviduals and they care not at all what happens to us..IF money becomes meaningless through breakdown then the ownership of land will be the tool that is used to steal our productivity
Yep, decentralized mutual credit... fundamental first step!!! Jem is a good guy, he gets it! But without that, all is bullshit in a kleptocratic framework that brings socio-ecological destruction.
