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Hate that you didn’t recover it, but it’s definitely an interesting datapoint. That said, penetration is about 90% broadhead, with very little having to do with the arrow weight. One thing I’d keep in mind with the IW (and this may be rectified with the wide’s) is blood trail. They typically are a little on the lighter side, so if you’re near swaps or stuff you’ll have trouble tracking through, that could be a challenge. All in all, excellent broadhead and if you ever go back to a lighter arrow, I think you’ll keep the benefits with maximizing penetration with the fixed 2 blade.
Just got the UV slider yesterday and tried it out. Its agreat sight apart from a few things. The main thing i dont like is the fact that you pretty much have to use the light all the time in order to see the pins, the pins are very dim without the light in most lighting situations without the light. The second thing is the fact the light does shut off on its own and when shooting when target shooting, it can shut off in the middle of a shot because you never know when it will. The third thing i dont like is that there is no stop for 20 yards on the slider which could have easily been added to the design. other than that, its a great sight and will probably get another one for my other bow.
Thanks for the input, but I could see the deer very clearly with both eyes open, and I'm sure if you were in the same situation, you would have taken the shot as well. I never blamed the arrow and said that multiple times throughout the video.
If you're shooting a distance let's say 30 yards or less, then there is definitely nothing wrong with a heavy arrow, or an "adult arrow" as RF calls it, and in reality your new weight is really not that heavy, it's still more of a happy medium. Heavier will definitely help with penetration on a bad shot. That being said, I live out west and heavy arrows don't work for me, because shots can at times be well over 50 yards, so trajectory is more important to me. I have shot several mule deer through both scapulae, 40-65 yards, with arrows as light as 345 grains, and the arrow kept on going. I've also shot deer at 20 yards with 450+ grain arrows and did not get a pass through. Any time this has happened I did hit areas that the bone is more dense, around the ball joint area. I feel that a person's arrow build should be based more around the game that they are shooting and the max distance being shot. I honestly feel that broadhead design is more important than arrow weight. You just have to find what is best for you.
Using a more efficient broadhead with your initial setup would have been fine. But, you mentioned something a couple of times that stood out to me. That in low light situations where you couldn’t see your peep, the only thing you could do was to trust you anchor point. I beg to differ. That’s the worst thing you could do. Since you can’t be sure where you will hit, the best thing to do is NOT take the shot.
Target practice with the beast practice tip for me was squirrelly at 30 yards for some reason. 20 and 40 were dead on. That being said I shot a doe Thursday with the beast and it performed as advertised which is its downfall. Entry was 2 inches exit was 1.25 at best because of bone evading tech. Granted the deer was a solid liver shot, the hide and meat plugged the hole to limit blood. The hole was a solid slit the thickness of the blades. The deer was dead in an hour which is impressive for liver shots, but there will be disappointed hunters this year. Haven't shot the Sevr hybrid yet, but it's on the list for this week.
Your new arrow build will be a killer without a doubt. IMO, you could have just changed to the same weight fixed head. I’ve used arrows from 410 to 425 fixed blade for years. Between 260 to 270 fps and nearly always get a pass thru. I rarely shoot any past 30 and most at 23-25 because of my hunting spots setups. I only pull 60-62 lbs at 28”. Now this is what I do on the arrow speed- single pin slider on the 270 fps arrows and a 3 pins slider on the 260 fps ones. I know my trajectory on the 270 ones and my sight is set at 25. I don’t need to dial my scope unless I know the deer is past 31-32 yards.
70lb pse mach 34 shooting a 300 spine easton 4mm long range with 155 grains up front (431gr total weight) frontal shot on elk just inside the left shoulder missing bone and exiting right rear rib cage half the arrow and broadhead were sticking out. This shot was with a 100gr iron will and at 10 yds. bull dropped in 100yds. I do believe shot placement is key regardless.
I look at the beast being multiple pieces a benefit. It allows for things to be replaced. I have curled over many sevr tips on bone or rocks on the ground after a pass thru. I know rhe pieces aren't available yet but im willing go bet eventually there will be replacement tips and blades in the future.
That new arrow, you still wouldn’t have recovered deer. Shot placement as many times as I can say it . Don’t shoot for bone. Every time someone loses a deer, myself included, they want to change their setup.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I respect the courage it took to open yourself up to all the criticism you’re receiving and will receive. We all have taken shots we wish could be taken over or not taken at all. Bow hunting is continual learning experience we should respect and enjoy. Best of luck in your future hunts.
People just absolutely refuse to follow the data from the Ashby study. Trajectory should be the last factor or not a factor at all when contemplating building a big game arrow. We have $350 adjustable sights on people's bows but they want their arrow to hit the same spot at 20, 30 and 40 yards.
Sight closer to the bow and peep position, don't over look those for long distance, plus arrow flex leaving the bow can cause it to hit the sight housing. I get 135 yards out of my black gold with a hunting arrow.
Has nothing to do to do with the arrow weight. Get the most out of your modern bow. Don’t sacrifice trajectory for a few percent more momentum. A 350 grain arrrow, even at 60#, will pass through a deer every time unless it gets stuck on the opposite shoulder, still just as lethal, In which case a heavier arrow is unlikely to make any difference. The guys in the heavy arrow camp might as well be shooting bows from the 1980’s
the other big thing(s) arrow noise, animals reaction time, and when that animal is on alert...read Chuck Adams "the shocking science of string jumping"....no modern day bow speed is gonna save you if that WT is further than 12 yards....i also cover all this on the TLTLtrad account
Sunrise Archery in Fenton are a bunch of dicks. They’ve been rude every time I’ve been in their store. I’d go elsewhere and encourage anyone else in the area to go elsewhere also.
Its your setup so do whats best for you. Ive got 17% foc, 550 grains with an ironwill single bevel. Ive split the humorous in half (obviously not on purpose). Single bevels split bone mechanically. You should give them a shot
I have had both fixed and mechanical stoped by the front shoulder and I have had both go through shot placement I key and I have seen what a Whitetail deer can take from working in my uncles Butcher shop for the past 40 years it is amazing what you find in a big buck and where one of the biggest deer we butchered had 1 50 cal muzzle loader 2 30 cal rifle 1 Broadhead fixed blade and multiple 22 long rifle in it healed up so I think there is no miracle answer
I'm a PH.D scientist who got into hunting. I HIGHLY recommend you watch the Ashby interviews. Listen, I've seen first hand how multiple things can lead to poor shot placement, and the stats show it happens much more often than archer skill level would imply (i.e. wind, small branches, deer smells and reacts to other deer far away, your equipment got bumped, etc.). If you have a well tuned arrow weighing more than 650 grains, you are far more likely to recover anything you hit, even if hitting heavy bone sockets. Consider this: my mother's boyfriend in high school died because someone dared him to jump off a high bridge when he was drunk, and he did it. He was going so fast when he hit the water, they said it was like hitting concrete. So speed is not always helpful for penetration. The high impulse on a fluid/solid can be such that it robs a lot of the energy during the initial impact. Try hitting silly puddy with a hammer. Throw some bone in the way after that, and you've got a real problem. The Ashby reports showed that even a forty pound recurve, & up to a seventy pound compound, all exhibit this threshold. As a solid state physicist, his findings make sense to me. Even as i'm sure many people have success with lighter arrows, and I imagine that sometimes speed is the reason people have harvested animals that were just not close enough to take a reasonable shot otherwise. Still, if you use AI and research this, it comes up with similar information from pouring through data. Much higher recovery percentages are seen with the really heavy arrow threshold...no more shots for me under 650 grains... Best.
Id debate this because shot placement is more critical than arrow weight and Ashby has said this. A lighter arrow leads to tighter pin gap which leads to a better chance of hitting where you aim. Given drawing on a deer causes an adrenalin rush its easy to misjudge or slip up and a lighter arrow is more likely to be closer to your original aiming point than a 650gr arrow. I hunt over CRP and need to be able to shoot to 40yds if not further. I shot a 200# dressed buck at 35yds last year with a 370gr rip XV with a 100gr qad exodus. Arrow broke a rib on each side and stuck around 15" into the dry ground on the other side. So absolutely no issues with penetration with an arrow almost half of what your suggesting. And my pin gap from 20-60yds was around 5/8 leaving gracious pin forgiveness. Also have to take into account arrow flight time and a lighter arrow hits the target a lot faster leaving a lot less time for a deer to move. Now I wouldn't suggest a 370gr arrow hunting hog, elk, bear, ect but for whitetail I would prefer to run a lighter faster arrow over a 650gr arrow for my needs. I switched to rip tko's for this season adding a little weight out front and my arrow is 450gr and my pin gap opened up quite a bit and I don't like that. My next set of arrows will be sirius orion 300spine 8 gpi arrows leaving me with a factory component arrow w/100gr point at around 400gr and I will probably run 125gr points leaving me at 425gr. Only reason I moved away from the rip XV is because the arrows are not very durable and in the event I hit a shoulder I didn't have confidence in the arrow not shattering and leading to an unethical takedown. Now that my bow is completely setup for 450gr arrows I regret not just sticking with the 370gr rip XV for my needs. I would without doubt take a shot on a whitetail at 60yds but I practice almost daily to feel this confidence. If I hunted in the woods and took 30 and under shots a heavier arrow would make more sense but to me 450gr is more than enough for whitetail. Most of the basic bow hunters in my area use 6.5mm arrows weighing around 400gr and they have been killing deer for decades with these arrows. This really comes down to skill level especially in the heat of a shot on an animal and personal preference. As long as your ethically harvesting animals it doesn't matter.
Obviously, this wasn’t a long-term bow hunter that posted. The best thing to do is to quiet the bow down. I can’t tell you how many deer I killed at 230 FPS that never reacted until the arrow was in the ground on the other side. A faster bow is never the answer no matter what the arrow weight is. It’s more about how quiet it is. We hear noises all day long, but we don’t jump unless they’re out of the ordinary. Dear are the same way.
@@CowboyJunkySC Bowhunter TV had a video with Randy Ulmer several years ago where he talks about bows being loud. It was very informative. He has had a very successful career in both target archery and bowhunting. I know many of his deer have shot over 75 yards. Here is a link to the clip if anyone is interested. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-F6_Mjrq1984.htmlsi=SgnryGSso2fJKfi_
The shoulder blade is not even as thick as as a piece of cardboard. Your arrow should have been fine to penetrate as long as you had a sharp broad head. The broad head is the most important thing. Its sharpness is probably close to 90% of how the arrow will penetrate.
Ho Lee Shite People on RU-vid make bow hunting so hard. Primitive people did it. Learn how to hunt and the archery part gets really easy and close range.
That really hurts to lose an animal like that but changing your setup to a less favorable trajectory Arrow and less forgiving head setup seems like a knee jerk reaction. That said I agree with your choices and run a 475gr rip tko with iron will heads, only difference is I dislike the half outs. I run hit inserts with iron will titanium footers and that thing is damn near indestructible! Blow through hogs multiple times in a day, straight through deer, I am shooting 309 fps though, best of luck with the new setup!
Compound or traditional setups both demand a smart and sensible arrow build that offer as much of both speed and momentum in other words a perfect blend that will handle a shoulder hit with no problem and also give you absolute confidence so to me you’re new setup is perfect! Thanks for sharing brother God Bless!
Your .550 slug of momentum is the same as an 8.9lb rod at 2fps and a 100gr rod at 1250fps. One of those is a sore foot from a piece of rebar, one of those is a 9mm round shooting through you and likely well through the person behind you. Yet they are the same momentum and vastly different penetration. Don’t focus on momentum, it won’t help. You can increase weight and hope the on target Ke increase is enough to be the difference in a bad shot penetrating bone and not, but it’s a flawed approach. It’s highly unlikely that 5% more or less Ke is the difference in going through or not. If you’re really worried about busting through shoulder, get a long slim fixed blade. It will be better at breaking bone. It will be worse at killing when you don’t hit shoulders, but there’s no free lunch. Mechanicals benefit from aiming a touch back and fixed blades benefit from aiming a touch forward. Neither is ideal when going the other way. If you are always going to error the same direction, stick with the one that benefits from that direction. More speed helps (somewhat) keep a moving target closer to where it was when you shot. More weight helps (somewhat) deliver more energy to the target. Both have a benefit and a drawback in real hunting. More speed but no energy means no penetration. More energy but a target that’s gone means no penetration. The biggest issue is always going to be putting a well tuned arrow where you want it to be. If you do that nearly any weight and any broadhead will work. Everything else is an excuse to cut corners from a well tuned arrow hitting where you want it to hit.
I hate to say this but you are not doing anything with adding an extra 50 grains. If you want penetration keep the 418 gn and go with a 2 blade fixed, I have shot through both shoulder blades on an elk with 425gns with a 2 blade single bevel at 60yds and 65lbs. Your wasting time thinking your going to gain anything unless you get up to the 600-650gn arrow.
I’m curious to see how your groups look with those Heat vanes and a fixed blade. My experience is that even 4 Heat vanes resulted in eratic groups at 40 yards with a QAD Exodus on the front. However when I used 4 AAE Max Stealth vanes, the Exodus literally hits in the same quadrant of the white dot on my Morrell High Roller.
@@MichiganAmBushOutdoors man that’s awesome! I really do like the Heat vanes for how quiet they are. When I did a 4 fletch Heat vane configuration with a Grim Reaper, I didn’t have any issues.
going to a fixed blade was a good move, may have been better go to a single bevel head based on your experience. single bevel heads continue to rotate after impact (deflect off bone) vs a double bevel will stop rotating on impact even if you have offset or helical fletchings. I shot a buck through the humerus bone 2 years ago @ 38 yards with a 55# bow and a 425 gr arrow using 125 single bevel heads.(much less speed and KE and momentum than your light arrow) 244 FPS, 56.13 KE and .46 slugs momentum. the arrow didn't penetrate fully, but the head deflected off the bone and severed the bucks windpipe and he was down inside 125 yards. since then I have stepped up to 72# draw and kept a 434 gr arrow, now moving 279 FPS, 74.94 KE and .53 slugs. whatever your choice, I think you are headed in the right direction, best of luck the rest of the season!
