All things vintage Paiste! Focusing on 1947 to 1986 Paistes, specifically: Super formula 602's Preserial Formula 602's B8 Stambul's Stambul 65's Giant beat's AND pre serial 2002's!
Excellent report ! Do you have any info on Super cymbals, the pre paistes ? If so would love a report on those. I have seven Supers, and wouldnt trade for anything out there . Perfect sound and pitch with either wood or nylon tips .
This vid and part 1 have given me the best cymbal maintenance education- ever! Most of my Paistes are still within stage one and two condition. I have one 14" 505 that's definitely stage three. The 505 combined with a 3000 sound edge (in pretty crisp condition) make for a pretty nice, darkish sounding x-hat. Still, I want to shine up that 505 for presentation sake. Thanks to this vid, I'm able to do so with confidence. Thanks man!
Hello Big Deezy! I’ve recently purchased an 18” Giant Beat from 1973. It has 3 inches of oxidation around the edge of the cymbal and I feel like that makes it not to “crash” very well. I am aware that Giant Beats are Crash/Rides but this one doesn’t crash very well might as well be a dud, but would you recommend me to use Paiste cymbal cleaner for oxidation?
Howdy! I'd use Barkeeper's paste, it's stronger and will remove the oxidation much better that the Paiste cleaner. You'd be surprised how much the cymbal opens up after cleaning!
I have the same cymbal!! Mine weighs 2710 grams. At the 9 O'clock position it has a silk screen saying "Special" It sits 50% offset above my 24" Giant beat because I cant pick just one. In person they sound much better than any regularly mic'd youtube video
Curious as to why you skipped over the Paiste Seven Sound Set 7 (a/k/a “Deep Ride”), a Formula 602 precursor to the Dark Ride. That is one superb dark-sounding Paiste cymbal.
Very informative. Thank You. I’ve used bar keepers on my Zildjian years ago but not on my prized Paiste Sound Formula. Do you have a recommendation for those? Still some clear coat but not shiny enough. Thanks
Thanks, very informative - maybe to use some sort of reducing/suppressing the plosive syllables like windscreen, pop filter, DAWs deesser etc. in order to improve intelligibility of speech and to be softer for the ears
Paiste is my favorite company. I only play Paiste vintage like 2002 black label, Stambul65, 602 etc. But, a company would have to be off-the-earth out of touch to not know there was demand for vintage lines such as Giant Beat etc. Just a cursory check of the used markets would be enough to know. Its a terrible thing actually, to want something your whole playing life, and never get to play them because of price and rarity.
I think the black label cymbals are generally thinner than later red labels. My black 24" ride weighs 3480grams and my red label 24" ride is 4001grams. My 1974 15" SE black label hats are 1135/1134grams top/bottom while my red label SE hats are 1265/1272grams. All my black crashes weigh between 50 and 150grams less than the same size reds I have. Just my observations and measurements from owning over 30 black labels and 20 red label 2002's.
It's apparent that with Masters they use a Turkish alloy. I had a whole set, but moved them on. They didn't do it for me, not Paiste enough. Today I use 602, 602 ME (darker) 2002 Big Beat ( B8, thinner 602 ME hammering) and PSTX. Paiste has so much to offer.
You are %100 percent correct! Not only do they use Turkish B20, but they are also hand hammered in Turkey. I also assume lathed, finished and tested int Switzerland!
I own a 22 Sound Creation Dark Ride (Mk 3) from 1983, 3295 grams, without the printed words 'New Dimension'. It only has the big round logo and 'Dark Ride' stamp. I've been playing it in a big band setting in Austria for more than 20 yrs. I simply love it. 🙂
I am now the proud owner of a pre serial 602 20" and also 14" hats, and WOW!! I love them!! They are so very different from my 1950s As, but so very tasty! I am officially hooked and cant wait to get more!!!!!!🥁❤️🥁
You mention massive cracking problems in the first year of Signature production. I bought two Full Crashes in 1989 (which are from the first production year). They are perfectly free of cracks up to now, the 16“ is played constantly in these 35 years.
The B15 alloy was originally supplied by a Czech foundry that had the issues, they may have been very early production runs that were only sold in Europe...
I just got a used set of 2oo2 hihats. I cleaned around the logos to save them. I used Flitz in a tube. Worked great. I lacquer lots of brass instruments at work. I did not want to use brass lacquer as I believe from my research that polyurethane resists scratches better. So I used the same spin method to apply Minwax oil based poly to coat the top cymbal. It takes more that a day to dry. It looks great and appears like other Paistes where I can see the coating. I could have thinned it slightly, but the research indicated that the dried film thickness would be less than 1 mil or .0005" to .001" thousands of an inch. Thinning it may have decreased this thickness slightly. I did not feel that it affected the sound very much if at all. In any case, I can always remove it. Your material is probably acrylic lacquer if it dries that rapidly. I have also used acrylic floor wax. Not as durable for abrasion. Dries very fast. I will continue my experiments. Oh, after the polishing with Flitz. I used very war m water and Dawn to decrease. Lac thinner is a great degreaser, too. Keep it away from logos!
I agree with your pricing and speculation. Drummers fawning over certain cymbals because of lore is ridiculous. Ex: Ludwig Standard cymbals. 300.00 for a 22" ride is absolutely a waste of money. Of course, if your first drum set at 10 years old had one and you have to go back to that time of your life to be happy, then go for it. Those cymbals sounded bad and were good for learning and for using at a practice space. 505s have gotten ridiculously expensive. Why not just get the better 2oo2s? I saw Carl Allen playing Sound Creations with Freddy Hubbard in 1984. I really dug them, but never really felt Paiste got it totally right until 1997 when the Traditional series came out. They crushed it and made the big Ks sound mothing like a K. Ed Clift brought in a 20 and 22 light jazz ride to out store. I demo'ed them in a clinic. I immediately bought the 22. It's stamped as a 97 production, but it was 98 when this happened.
Great info! Thanks! Yes, I agree, Standards and Ludwig "3 stars" are ridiculously overpriced, almost as much as Giant beats are! A lot of people think the Standards are related to 602's because the stamps look similar but they are not....
So the material for the sheet metal bronze after rolling wil loose about 40% waste, but I think this refers to b15 because of the brittle properties. They maybe resale the leftover to re melt. The chinese crashes from wuhan I have sure have a trashy sound, which is good in a way sometimes.
I always just thought it was the difference between sheets or plates of the bronzes, but it makes sense how some Turkish made can have more impurities in the metals.
The Chinese have been using bronze (copper and tin) to make cymbals MUCH longer than anybody else! The Italians have been using bronze to make church bells for as much as a 1000 years!
