Swiss Side, No.1 in aerodynamics, maximizes speed and real world performance of aero wheels. With over 50 years of Formula 1 experience, Swiss Side’s new technologies and unmatched engineering know-how revolutionize the cycling industry.
So OK, I have seen some vids that suggest shaved legs are aerodynamically better performing. The next question is, what about your arms? Because if I shave either, my pale Pommie skin will be shredded in an Australian summer.
Tahnee Seagrave’s DH skin suit caused quite the uproar! Mtb aero kit is getting better I’ve been seeing aero socks, newer aero fabrics, and more integrated bar / stem combos but there’s much more to do! DH Helmets have to be the least aero thing in the world 😂 I totally agree on the track & field equipment and the Olympics put it on full display… it would be amazing to quantify their aero gains over different speeds and distances. The Nike striped fabrics on a lot of their shorts and arm sleeves seem almost designed to be aero, what do you think?
I would add a note that many many people are able to ride in very aerodynamic positions without ever doing core work and strength training. Often a small adjustment in position can provide enormous relief where no amount of weight training would. So please do not assume if that core work is the answer if you have trouble getting aero, maybe it will be, maybe it will not.
why don't we see world tour teams running the deepest rims, like your hadron 800s, on the flatter and lower elevation rolling stages? It seems there's a lot being left on the table? we hear weight is more important as you get into the steeper and longer climbs, so is it a ride feel thing? some perceived sensation? Or is there diminishing returns beyond 60mm?
I'm guessing one has to optimise the setup for each course, but I do wonder if the whole peloton was on deep section and dish wheels, would they be faster overall?
What great insights from Larry. He's run through so many tech changes in his pro career and still remains a genuine and normal guy. Definitely someone I'd enjoy having a beer with.
We know that a round tube is horrible aerodynamically but if a round tubed bike is your only option how about optimizing a wheel set and tires to the frame tubes? I know SwissSide don't subscribe to the rule of 105 .BUT how would choosing a front wheel which has a outer width matching the leading edge of the down tube and the rear wheel width matching the seat tube make a reduction in drag? If so, what a ballpark figure of the saving?
@@_msc-ds9sj A mind is like a parachute, it has to open for it to work. If you read or know Newton's first law it does not exclude aerodynamics from balance because it is the same subject.. By the way, cute clown, is that a portrait of you?
Aerodynamicis, Aero, Aero, Aero..... Aero..! Bla bla bla bla bla... And not a single word about "rotation balance". I promise, by 2026 Aero will not be mentioned unless it is together with rotational balance. WHY?! It's called Newton's first Law.... A mass that is put in motion will continue in motion unless it is interrupted by an outside force (i.e. aerodynamics), or an oscillation (I.e. balance). An F-1 car is built around Newton's First law, Aerodynamics & Balance... So should Aero Carbon Wheels. Mark my words.
An f1 car has higher rotanional speeds. So rotation is up by a factor of 3 at top speed. Maybe even more, depending on your top speed on your bike. Having an imbalance at 760 (~100kmh) to 2300 (~300kmh) rpm of the tyre is a big difference. Rims should come balanced, better was it if rims came balanced with the valve. Newmen now has integrated valves. Now think of a balanced rim. You have to put rimtape on in balance an the tyre has to be balanced. Now we need balancing weight which can be added whithout interferring with aerodynamics. Thats the hardest part. Where to add without adding to much weight. The closer you go to the center, the more mass you need. So rotating your imbalanced tyre on your imbalanced rim until they balance each other is the easiest option you got. maybe your logo doesnt align with your valve anymor than. Can you cope with that? But unless your wheels isnt severly imbalanced like with a defective tyre oder hardened tubelessmilk you will not notice balancing at normal speeds. If you regularly descent mountains like safa, try balancing and tell us if you notice any differences.
Why is bike geometry never considered when considering handling and stability? Deep wheels need different steering geometry than shallow, but it never seems to come up in these discussions. Just curious if it is discussed behind closed doors
Do you also consider vibration related losses? Real roads are not smooth. How much watts are being wasted when using thinner tires compared to wider like 30's?
According to many rolling resistance sources, Latex tubes have the lowest rolling resistance of any system. Certainly faster than TPU (marginally), so I'm interested to know where you're basing you info saying latex is 3rd on your list
Also latex tubes have some safety issues when used in clincher wheels. If you install them correctly, there is no problem, but it is very, very hard to install them correctly. They have an amazing knack for getting pinched between the bead and the rim, where they will often work for some amount of time then explode releasing all pressure immediately. I've seen pro race team mechanics screw this up, bike shop mechanics screw it up, experienced racers screw it up. You really have to be meticulous and check every centimeter of each side of the rim before inflating fully.
@@yogatriathlete I knew someone would reply like this. It is a natural law of the internet. "Not a problem for me". That is great, it is for some people. You may naturally be meticulous and so do not have problems. Meanwhile other people have broken their faces because they did have problems so it is worth warning people. I used them for 10 years myself, and once I learned you need to be meticulous I also did not have problems. Now I use tubeless because it is even faster and less hassle.
@@JackMott The only reason tubeless tires are faster (as a system) is because all the research and development is now going into TLR technology, while tube-type clinchers are slowly becoming outdated. But if you look at just the air retention system by itself, latex tubes are still one of the fastest (lowest rolling resistance) methods available. I know there are many other advantages to using tubeless, or TPU tubes, or even Butyl tubes, but when you only look at rolling resistance, you cannot get faster than a latex tube. There is supporting data and not just me saying so
Are there any situations where the "sailing effect" works against you? Since you compare it to sailing, if you position the sails the wrong way, you would slow yourself down rather than having them push you forward. On a bike you don't have the option to position you wheels in the most favorable position
if you look at yaw sweeps of aero wheels they are never slower than non aero wheels, but what shape you pick may have downsides at some yaw angles vs others. One wheel may be better at low yaw vs high yaw. A faster cyclist doing short TTs may prefer a low yaw optimized setup than a slower cyclist doing longer events (slower speeds )
is that 12w with normal mid-calf socks or no socks/short socks? you'd assume mid-calf length socks are negating any aero drag from the lower leg. so is shaving basically just my calves worth 12w? and how are calf sleeves only 6w? you could argue those are more aero (applying some rough principals of kit materials aero properties) than bare legs? legit questions as i can admit this is mostly bro logic lol
See the Tour magazine tests, these figures are in-line with their testing protocol between good aero bikes and climbing bikes with little aero dynamic tube shaping - e.g. a Cervelo S5 vs an R5 with the same wheels.
@@morrisizing i would have been assuming they were comparing apples to apples not apples to oranges.... plus from the data table i am currently looking at from tour magazine (dont know the protocol whether rider on/off handlebars the same etc), a saving of about 20secs (foil vs addict) or even 1min 10 sec (s5 vs r5) over a ~4hour 18min timeline is no where near 20W... though as we know W values quoted on their own isn't very meaningful...
@fastasasloth according to the bike calculator 20watts extra from a baseline if 300watt over 40k @ 40kph would be about a minute saving over 40k at 40k an hour. The video suggested yo me moving from a non aero to aero bike, not between aero bikes given they know that the Van Rysel 'all-rounder aero+light' race bike they helped design gives away less than 10 watts to the Simplon full aero bike they helped design.
@@morrisizing i can only repeat the data i see from tour magazine (which you initially highlighted not me) which gives about 20-80 seconds saving over 180.2k (between a manufacturers aero frame or "light" frame), not 40k And what W saving does that indicate at say 25mph? It's a rhetorical question since it's much less than 20W... plus the video said "good bike frame to a bad bike frame", not bike! I'm debating what was actually said, a 20W difference between frames... and that to get such a saving one has to have a large discrepancy in frame type (hence the exaggerated penny-farthing quib..) or be travelling hell of a fast (hence the 80+kph quib..)
I am interested in the trend to wider tyres. Swissside still seem to be based around 25mm tyres. Noticeably for TT's on the World tour the Wheels used but many of the top TT's are below the 28's that seem the norm now in road races, presumably because the higher average speeds on TT's make aero a bigger gain than any handling or rolling resistance gains from a wider tyre. However road racing it seems 28's are now the go to. So will we see TT specific front wheels & then wider width wheels for road racing where the average speeds are a bit lower and the gains in corning confidence, fatigue reduction etc of wider tyres are more pronounced?
You didn't mention that the biggest part of aerodynamic drag is produced by the rider itself. This also depends on the possible positions on the bike, so choosing the right bike plays a role somehow. But if you are on low budget there are some other possibilities to optimise drag. You could install a triathlon bar to get low. Chose tighter clothing instead of the flannel shirt. Close the zipper of your jacket or take it off. Also for bike packing/touring you can rearrange your bags (and not use fork bags). 😂 And declutter the bike and the surface of your clothing. Just some ideas to get further with less energy consumption.
Can you explain the sail effect in more detail? Are the mechanics actually the same as a sail? or is it a marketing term to help convey an idea? Can you actually get thrust? or is it just less drag when there is a cross wind compared to a perfect 0 degree headwind? Is it possible to demonstrate a front wheel being propelled forward with head wind?
Considering all the points made, if all brands designed the most aerodynamic bike possible (taking into account all UCI regulations), we would get to a point where all bikes would look the same, wouldn't we? I think you can already see that on a lot of bikes as they look more and more similar and if a manufacturer stops sticking to their "signature design."
Really, really appreciate the knowledge sharing. This and your pit walk with Ronan on Escape Collective are Gold when trying to get faster. Thanks Guys
I assume this was recorded before IM published their rule changes. I would be interested to hear what you think of them. IMO they are far too vague and open to interpretation.
A video on dirty gravel bikes? Why do I feel like I am being personally attacked? LOL! Watching the video, I now know why I was dropped on my last group ride. It had nothing to do with the week I took off or the five pounds I gained during the holidays. My bike was dirty. I like that excuse better. I'm going with that.
