It baffles me how many people mix themselves into this conversation when they don't even care to learn a bare basic about singing and live performing. People just deny it to 'defend' their faves. Besties, sometimes your faves just didn't sing well live and that's not the end of the world lol. And sometimes your faves just never sing live and that actually SHOULD be something you want changed from your faves. Your faves don't grow if you baby them and throw money at them doing their job poorly or not at all. You're fooling yourself 🤷♀
Sorry, but it's NOT hard to tell the difference between live and lipsync. Its like comparing a clean straight line to a wobbly scribble. One is not like the other. Real raw live vocals can immediately be picked apart as it's never 100% stable and smooth like prerecs or the original. If the volume and stability is constant it's 100% not live.
What grosses me out r when kpop idols turn 18 and everyone justifies sexualising them. Like new jeans for example the comments are like it doesn't count now they all turned 18 except hyein... it makes me so upset. I also just turned 18 and I get creepy stuff from guys now😭 I hate this world
its fromis, not formis lol also while i do agree i think its very much important to consider how much of a big role pre hybe vs post hybe had an effect on fromis. pledis was also involved in hellovenus as well for a short while. the thing with fromis however, is the fact that they were a freebie to hybe and they actually had no interest in accquiring them. fromis was originally under stone which went defunct and wakeone didnt want them and then they were under otr but then they were given to pledis because the deal ended or whatever i forgot (someone pls correct me w the full info) but all in all they werent a regular group and certainly not pledis' priority. i just wish they were given a new label with better management. sigh. fromis also arent particularly huge. while yes they saw a massive increase of commerical success post hybe accquisition (hitting 100k-200k sales and charting veryyy decently with stw) they still have a great wall of china level gap between them and their fellow girl groups. hybe ggs are expected to be the primary moneymakers among the gp rn and the bgs are expected to foster a strong fanbase but fromis are kind of in the middle of that. gp likes them but also does show some distaste for the rigging scandal especially bcs almost all of fromis and idol school was rigged and the most popular member of the og lineup didnt even debut the fromis filtering might just be youtubes system bcs of hasthags maybe, im not too sure about that and why pledis would be so meticulous about such a useless thing since ytb comments dont hold much weight, like at all? also girls talking abt how they havent gotten their first payment is rlly much giving loona.... hybe is sus
well, you took the words out of my mouth! when i first became a kpop stan i felt so out of place and guilty for not streaming new releases from my favorite artists, but that was before i realized i can listen to whatever i want. currenlty sending this video to my past self! thanks hoshining for making this video, sincerely present me and past me (LOL 5:50 made me giggle)
From what l heard you are not that qualified to comment on Babymonster and YG. l guess all female critic on female groups from YG are simply jealous because the girls are prettier than them. Why not other groups. Because you do not hate them?
The thing is... this obsession was fostered by the KPop industry itself and is only the logical conclusion of how an industry that has outsourced part of their marketing to fandoms will reach (especially on the boy group side, where reliance on fandom is historically stronger) Korean music shows are competitions based on these kinds of numbers, and music show wins are one of the most important metrics to measure immediate success (but look through the list of songs without music show wins and you'll see many super influential songs that just happened to have released alongside a throwaway song of a popular group). The industry made it so music show wins were important and they made it so fans pre-voting and live voting is a necessary part of fandom, making sure everyone keeps an eye on numbers. (And companies also play along, e.g. by buying ads on RU-vid to boost viewership numbers etc.) Many end-of-year awards can only be won with fan votes and also explicitely through streaming (e.g. on a specific Spotify playlist for MAMA). This type of fierce fandom competition goes back to the days of H.O.T. vs. Sechskies in the late 90s and it only got more intense over time. KPop fandom has become like a sports fandom in some respect, but instead of the actual artists competing, it's the fandoms and the industry has set up the arenas for it. It isn't the fans who made it like this, it's the industry. Once you seed this kind of mindset into a space, it is only logical that it would extend to more and more areas and get more obsessive. I would also wish to advocate for other metrics of success (like many groups themselves also promote, e.g. by focusing on longevity or stability of the group or musical exploration and experimentation over quick trends), but the cold hard reality is that this industry is oversaturated, and such a cutthroat competition that you ignore it at your own peril. However, I feel like it has gone into overdrive more and more recently, so it is entirely possible that the bubble will simply burst and deflate rapidly at some point, if enough people in all the different fandoms get burnt out and no new ones come in to fill the void (which seems to be happening already at some of the fringes), or if the industry decides to adjust the charts rules to curb fandom's influence. (But that's a whole other discussion. Because if charts are ruled by radio play like it used to be, you essentially turn the radio programmers into gate keepers on what is allowed to be popular. That was how it was in the old days) I think it is wrong to blame this mostly on fans being stupid. Not when music shows and fan voted awards and myriads of other fandom competitions happen every week, making fans feel like they are personally responsible for (and personally to blame for the lack of) their fave's performance.
Good video and a similar topic may I recommend, Please make a video about album sales and how groups like seventeen's name is taken through the mud for not "matching" streams when Infact it only mentions Spotify and not melon and oricon charts etc ie the western chart obsession, and generally the culture to condemn "fraud" sales from massbuying but not "fraud" streams from 100s of accounts of 1 person
Nice video! This obsessive culture of streaming is also making songs quality and charting much more unrelated one another! the 7 seconds noise from Taylor Swift was the perfect example. In this regard another thing I really dislike in kpop is also the popularity of presale albums: if you think about it you are litterally telling the company that you are going to give them money regardless of the quality of the music.
I'm pretty liberal with my streams. My only rule is basically I listen to what I want whenever I want at the amount I want. If I like a song, I listen to it and if I don't, I don't touch it. And if I want to listen to a group's entire discography from front to back for the millionth time, I'll do it. Basically, I listen to music just for myself and for nothing else
I feel like so many people need to have a physical factual reason to like something. They aren’t comfortable with just liking what they like. If their groups aren’t the most popular they feel like it’s in valid to stan them. I hope that more people can just love what they love and let others do the same
I genuinely never understood the appeal of mass streaming/buying for the sake of a chart. Just play music normally imho. Listen to full albums, don't overplay and don't force yourself to like something you don't.
I became a fan of seventeen and learnt how they were and still are mistreated by pledis So I can imagine the mistreatment of fromis9 must be infinitely bigger, hurts to see since their recent comebacks like me now and go go were so loved
I think the title maknae started become an actual position during 3rd gen. When I started stanning kpop, around 2nd gen, it just mean that they're the youngest. Like back then the maknaes are like Minzy, Seohyun, Kyuhyun, Taemin etc. You can tell they're the youngest by their dynamic, but that's that. On stage or while working they're seen as an actual idol on duty. They don't have 'maknae' stamp on their forehead.
I agree, and it makes more sense. Swan Song seems more personal because it is more personal. Swan Song in the mini album had the most involvement of the members. In the credit list for writers and producers is Yunjin, Sakura, Chaewon, and Kazuha, while We Got So Much is credited with only Yunjin and Eunchae and Smart only has Yunjin, and EASY has none of them. Swan Song is definitely more personal than Easy because the members actually helped in the creation of Swan Song thus making it seem a better choice
Funnily enough, I think it stunted Tzuyu's growth. She's very shy and reserved, so has not broken out of the mould of being Maknae, despite being closer to 30 years old than 20. I love Tzuyu, but I's also love to see her be more mature, just like every other Twice member has, including Chaeyoung, whose personality wouldn't let her be shoehorned into a childlike role
I honestly wish that swan song and easy was a duo title track release...kinda like how kiss of life did a duo title track of bad news and nobody news where they also show the duality of being in the middle of fake news
I personally think a great example of this is Jang Wonyoung, Back during her Produce days she was babied by everyone including judges which is normal because she was the youngest and was only 13 and it carried on in IZ*ONE she was even named Giant baby/Maknae her bubbly,funny,wild and cute personality was what many fans loved about her, But when she debuted in IVE and started maturing and became quieter than she used to be people started saying she changed and wasn’t the same Wonyoung but when she acted like when she was younger that once cute bubbly personality became cringe,fake and "Pick Me behaviour"
I love the analysis and the song, great video, I loved it! In my opinion, Swan Song could be the Title track or b-side because more than Easy, Swan Song conveys the meaning better. Love the video and editing ❤✨
I really like this video, because I feel like people don't really appreciate that. I love Swan Song, I think it's overall the best song on the minialbum. It's elegant, but it has this emotional bitter sweet vibe and massage (as you mentioned). It's a bit repetitive, but in comparison to Easy it never gets old. I've literally listened to this song so much it ends up in my monthly top 10 every time and I just can't get tired of it. I feel like their vocal delivery really elevates the otherwise more simple production and it actually uses this to their advantage. This song doesn't need to have high notes or crazy add lips to bring the point and concept across, similarly to how Fearless didn't really have any. It is for the arts and I'm so here for it🥰.
there are a lot of maknaes who aren't babied and its when they are actually skilled or atleast try to improve with time. niki from enha being super young and he was never babied even once since iland because he is an amazing dancer and people cant ignore it. jungkook being a good singer also makes people talk abt his skill more than him just being a maknae. huening kai from txt is a bad example where he is a really stable and good singer but because hes a maknae and is very vocal about how much he likes plushies and cute things, it became his brand. its all about setting ur image and even though the company does have a role in it, its also upto the idols to mention their hobbies and skills and cement a good image of themselves early on because once u stop talking about how much u like performing or singing and mention being cute or liking cute things more, it sticks to u for years. i think in most new groups, there are many talented members but the maknaes arent very skilled and dont even talk about wanting to improve their skills which makes them the designated maknae automatically cuz theres no other personality trait. eunchae, for example, was given a really good opportunity to host star diary and that couldve single handedly changed her image from just a maknae to someone who is witty or funny or honest. i get that shes an introvert but its been months and she is still shy around guests and asks them the same old questions. i personally love watching it because its cute to see my bias interacting with a cute younger sister which, again, just enforces her maknae image more. non moas thought of soobin as a cute leader but once he became an mc, he'd go viral every week for his blunt humor. i personally think that if maknaes or idols in general have a trait or two that stands out, it will show. if they're stuck with a certain image its because there's nothing else to go by
I do agree that this position seems to be given to the person when they don’t shine in a particular skill, but with Niki and Jungkook, as you said tho they weren’t as babied as let’s say eunchae but these people were highly sexualized from their teenage so they did not get the curse of being highly babied but the people did still look at them in a particular way of when will they grow up and not be the youngest member so that is also a bad thing At the same time i Also feel honestly that being the youngest member doesn’t have anything to do with skill I mentioned Dino from seventeen He is such a talented main dancer and he is the youngest member tho svt doesn’t really baby him so there are exceptions, but yeah most people do end up babying the youngest member a lot, and that breaks the way that they can grow as the artist even Jungkook suffered through this while he was exploring with different concepts
I agree. Another recent example would be IVE Rei. I haven't finished the video yet, maybe you've mentioned her. But seeing her on so many variety shows alone this comeback surprised me. She has this cute maknae image but that doesn't hinder her from being all out savage on many shows. I really loved that image development that had come to her. I think the idols can play a big role in their image setting for sure, at least a some tome into their career.
I totally agree with the points you mentioned! Throughout my years as a kpop fans, I did view maknaes as this cutie, need-to-be-protected member (probably because I'm a big sister in the family, so I mostly adore those who are younger). I think I was woken up from this view when I saw Jungkook's gradual change; it's THAT drastic, in my opinion. All the maknaes of my fav groups are grown up rn, so I started to think, "ahhh the babies are growing up!" like doting parents lmao. I think Dino from SVT is actually pretty lucky in this case. In SVT debut days, Pledis did promote him as the cute maknae with talent and questionable hairstyles. I think what helps his change is actually how SVT members treat him. They're DEFINITELY not babying him, and they tease him in daily basis; thus established Dino as a bullied maknae. It also helps that fans like to point out Dino's and S.coups' starkingly different situation: S.coups is the maknae of his family but the oldest in SVT, meanwhile Dino is the oldest sibling but the maknae in SVT. This also creates an image of maturity in him while at the same time, capable of having moments where he's unconsciously behaves like a maknae. SVT really has the most interesting idol image (if they still has any image left-as they keep destroying their own (company-assigned) image lmao). I'm sorry to rant in your comment section 😂 I like to hear your opinion, so keep it going! Good luck 😊
yeah i agreed with the dino situation i feel like unknowing bullying dino helped him not have the intense babying fandom as we kinda seem him as a person and adult rather then just a baby tbh and hence explore more artistically and i hope everyone could just think of the maknaes just growing up then being too over invested and thinking that they changed cause they just wanna try more things thanks for watching glad you liked it means a lot 💗✨
I hate how Fromis gets treated. They can just as easily be a money making group for Pledis if they just got the chance! I checked out Fromis because of Seoyeon during the game caterers Hybe family series (same with SVT lmao) and I found out that Seoyeon and I share the same birthday! I was intrigued and interested in her so I checked out Fromis and found that I loved their music and sound! Sucks to see them mistreated like this! Also, btw are you Indian? Because I've never seen an Indian carat before 😭 Anyways thank you for making this video! #PLEDIS_TREAT_FROMIS_BETTER !
It's not PLEDIS. Toxic fans love to find someone to blame for things and to be negative. HISTORICALLY, GIRL groups with more than 6 members tend to fail. It's too many members for the fans to get invested in and care about. ONLY 3 groups with 9 members or more have found success and that is IZONE, SNSD and TWICE. After that 4-6 members is the sweet spot for groups who are successful. It has nothing to do with Pledis not marking Fromis well. When they debuted in Korea they did promote them well, lots of fans here went to check them out. But with 9 members its hard to get on the best variety shows, and you need to go as a group when you are starting out, not send just a few members. So they didn't get a big fanbase in Korea. Overseas fans love to complain but don't buy enough ablums (not put their money where their mouth is). So you are wrong. Pledis does not suck at marketing. The group couldn't grow their fandom early on to find success. Mostly because fans invest their time and energy in to smaller groups, less photocards, less merch to buy, less members to follow, etc. Toxic fans are evident in the comments of your video. All the hash tags and bandwagon bitching is the proof.
So you telling us you already predicted the future? 🤣 base on what you said that twice will be the Last 8+ member idols group to become successful and no more for the next 100 years? You must be Prophet 😂. If you said that after SNSD before Twice even form you gonna look like a Idoit same as today. Are you confident for the next 100 years even your dead that there will never be a 8+ member become successful? SNSD did it and Twice Did it how is that impossible to future idol group?. Speaking of toxic people you should look at the mirror yourself first
I didn't know about this whole thing about them but I heard Fromis_9 have been mistreated but I didn't know it's so deep. Fromis_9 deserves better and pledis just sucks. With so much competition in the industry now, without any lromotions or comebacks, it's almost as if they don't make music. Pushing away fans who are trying to stan the group because there is not enough content to watch. #Treatfromisbetter #Treatfromis_9better
@@JennyRuby2011 hi I just wanted to add that the person who you replied to is not telling you the truth before pledis took over the marketing of fromis. They were under stone entertainment and they were marketed really well and they had like much more activities like they had 4eras in 2019 compared to only one comeback in 2022 so you can clearly see the difference. Just keep that in mind. I’m sorry I didn’t want you to get the wrong information.
Fromis_9 is one of my ults 🥺🥺🥺 as someone who was aware of pledis and their tendancies with girl groups (and nuest ofc) god i hope fromis_9 will get to promote and pledis sucks fr
my account comment got deleted so here is the template TREAT FROMIS 9 RIGHT #PLEDIS_TREAT_FROMIS_BETTER #플레디스_fromis_9을_더_잘_다뤄 @pledisnews@HYBEOFFICIALtwt
To be honest they chose this life and the adults/parents around them should've warned them against it if they really don't want to be sexualized. And let's not be fucking delusional, if these idols were fans of other idols, they probably encountered everything we see from a fans side and they probably sexualized idols themselves and know what it is. They wanted this. 🤷🏻♀️
