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Kate, this discussion reminds me of General Synod 1979, when the issue of women's ordination was being discussed. People were, literally, accusing supporters of women's ordination of being in league with the devil. It was quite bad scene.
“Let Scripture interpret Scripture”. I first heard that from a 20-something just graduated Seminary pastor. About 15 years ago…a profound God truth that really began my deconstruction. All the years of listening to the pastor and calling it truth. Listening to the male leaders tell me what the Bible meant ….their opinions. Let Scripture interpret Scripture….beautiful and life-changing and life-giving!
I'm tired. I always am on Sunday afternoons. I've also been an Ally of women in the church for forty years. Thank you for carrying on this struggle to the new generation.
Wow! These were both so interesting to me this week because of what you pointed out in your teachings…. I have not heard much, if any empathy, ever given to Potifar’s wife in the OT text. And I had to re-read Wilcox’ section a couple times because I have certainly never heard divorce talked about like you and she did. So much grace and inclusion Jesus stood for and practiced. What if this world followed that Jesus?? Great stuff!!!!
This was a tough listen….disturbing to say the least. The gaslighting, the shaming, the ignoring….and it is still happening today. Hearing you teach these passages with my deconstructed ears and mind is very disturbing to me. At times the battle seems too much in this West Michigan area. We need to have men stand up to teach this message too-the perpetrators of the problems MUST be part of the solution to change and healing!
I wholeheartedly agree. It's a struggle entering into these conversations because I know they cause pain, but we also know we need to be talking about it. I fully believe God is disgusted and is with us on this journey, bringing comfort and healing as we go.
It's hard to say. There's a lot of OT commentary speculation about it, but to my mind they would have been representative of the variety of religions in the area at the time. To be clear, I didn't choose that language, it's straight from the NRSV. Lmk if you find anything interesting!
@@katejmeyer I looked it up. The “gods” were actually idols (statues, material possessions etc.) and not literal deities. A good way to compare different English language versions of the Bible is to start from the KJV. Genesis 31:19 is a stark reminder why the first commandment is the most important of them all. God bless you!❤️🙏
Ahhh yes that New Testament passage. Most I remember said about singleness is that “If you are single, that’s OK, so was Paul.” Moving on to the things of men now 🤦♀️….. Ahhh His church, His beloved Bride, I often wonder what He thinks. I was single until almost thirty and no biological children. The church has a hierarchy with married/single/divorced/ childless as well as male/female. I remember questioning this a few years back at a patriarchal church and the white male pastor said something along the lines of “Christ loves His Church-it’s His Bride. He loves her as she is.” I sighed and recognized that shushing and shaming comment …. I replied back something like “well, I’m not so sure….since you’re a man, you may not see some places where He might not be so happy.” Needless to say, we moved on from that place….he had his nice little “happy” church family and I definitely was not appreciated with what I had to say…. Love hearing your messages!
Amen sister! This is so hard to do - society seems to love to pit us against each other …. And to fight against such evil is exhausting. We just don’t think we are good enough - just the way the enemy wants us to stay! Comparing and competing… I can relate to Leah-a family member is like Rachel….and she also feels inferior….inside we are ALL the same!!! Talking with those in my sphere (the younger ladies) tells me we haven’t really come all that far….. sadly…. But knowing I am not alone in this and there are people like you out there give me the courage to keep on keeping on in the cause of acceptance, truth and love! Exhausting but worth the battle!
I don't know if it is generational, regional, or gender, but you always have a perspective that I have never heard before. Thank you for posting these.
Ooh I loved this message so much ❤. You weaved the three women’s stories together in such a beautiful way. I could have listened to this message for a much longer time-so soothing, so inspiring, so powerful, so challenging all at once!
Am mulling over how the trauma of the women in today’s teaching has never been taught in my presence. Is it any wonder we continue to hear of abuse of women (and most recently a 12 year old GIRL) from “church authoritarian” men? Lots to process today! Keep up the fantastic ride!!!!!
It's so sad and angering, isn't it? I'd love to not need to do a series like this, but with the CRC recent doubling down against the Rainbow community and the consistent battles against women--especially within church leadership--makes it clear that right now it is necessary. I'll keep keeping on and hope that word continues to spread!
So refreshing to hear a sermon on these two women. The most full teaching I have ever heard on both! Thank you. We must speak up and out as women’s voices continue to be pushed aside for some man’s agenda…whether that man be a pastor or a politician or a father of daughters. We must speak up in the face of any injustice! I also believe that God dealt with Lot in some way…I have to trust God to seek and dole out justice for all the evil we see!
Great thinking points to ponder this week on both passages….oh the damage that has been done with the misinterpretation of the Genesis part…I imagine watching little girl faces and adult faces alike letting the Truth sink in when this passage is properly taught. Great job and lots to process!
So so so good!!!! So many references about God and the Holy Spirit I have never heard-loved hearing the Genesis Creation story told in a whole new way!!!
This brings back childhood memories for me. My mother always warned me about those "bad girls." When I got engaged to a woman who would be attending seminary, my father asked me why I would want to marry a "damned radical." Pam and I laugh about that comment until this day.
Much to process here….oh yes the Proverb’s woman and the purity culture. Yes to having heard that too many times to count-in a greeting class we took at the patriarchal church I grew up in, we women were told to watch what we wore….my Mom, bless her heart, raised her hand and asked the pastor about whether he was going to warn the men in the class about wearing tight pants….😂. I think it’s the only time this man was at a loss for words! Always always always on us girls to keep those boys on the straight and narrow. 🤦🏻♀️. I always have loved that passage from Luke. Of course I NEVER heard that passage preached on! Dismantling the system and calling the BS out when seen and in practice isn’t done much in the “C” church… Interesting how Church going Christians themselves - both men and women- are the ones that don’t want to hear the message in my sphere…. Keep preaching sister - these messages need to be used in classrooms everywhere!!!!
More voices heard, diverse voices, not the same male viewpoint over and over again….how different would the “C” church look today if all little girls had heard your messages…. That women were so loved by Jesus, were always around Jesus, were always included? So many little girls whose stomachs ached, hearts hurt and heads knew “something” was off when they kept hearing from men week after week preach their viewpoint and only their viewpoint? Ahhh your words are healing and deeply disturbing simultaneously!
You just named my heart's hope, Sue! That's my prayer exactly and why I ask each week for people to subscribe, comment, and/or share. Younger voices need to hear it, many adult women need that healing.
These messages are feeding my soul… As a young woman growing up in a patriarchal church, my questions about Job’s wife were summarily dismissed as “not the point”…. So women were “not the point” is how my young soul took those comments … dismissed…erased. I am 63 years old and did not hear a message from the pulpit until I was in my 50s about Jesus as a mother hen from Luke. Deconstructing from Big C Church- oh yes! On the journey for close to 20 years and still going! Like you, my love for and belief in Jesus was strong….but the messages I read from Him and those preached were SO radically different. I now count your videos along with an online church in New York City as my “church family” …. They match what I read from my Creator, Lord, Savior and Lover of women! Soothing to my soul, healing balm as deconstruction is often painful… thank you for this series!!
It's so encouraging, Sue, to hear how these are impacting you. I'm glad you've found a community that resonates, too! We'll keep this conversation going--and talk soon over a beverage 😉
So much to absorb here….Thank you for sharing your message…May women everywhere have the courage to speak up and step up to where they are called and not where they are “put”.
