Hey Vinnie, it's Ken Combs. Hope you are doing well. I watched two videos last night as you went around Crocket and to the A's game. Both excellent content. Thank you. I hope you have Morgan Territory on your list of back roads. Then Mines Rd to San Jose? I'll keep watching. Miss you.
@@Vinnie_Angelo I’m observing the fact that various councils comprised of human beings convened to debate and decide on certain dogmas and/or theological particulars relating to the religion of Christianity, and I’m also observing that every other aspect of Christianity appears to have human origins, as well: its messages are spread by way of people proselytizing other people; its relevant “scriptures” are all written by human beings in local human languages using whatever man made technologies were available in the immediate time & place the texts were being written; the texts were translated by human beings across different human languages; all of its churches and relevant artifacts were constructed and maintained by human beings; the various church leaderships and important figures relevant to the founding and spreading of the religion are all human beings, so on and so forth. Christianity appears to be the product of human efforts, from its very inception to its current forms, and the same can be said about literally every other religion that has ever existed on this planet.
No, No, the lack is you, you lack the will or intelligence, or both to study the history of this, because where do you think I got it, that is why man is to seek, and to prove all things, If you do take on the task, your biggest enemy are the Christians. So come out from among them and be separate, and study to show that you are self-approving, just as I am.
My friend, you deleted your original comment, so I can't comment directly to what you wrote, but from what I remember of your post, it was just filled with errors.
@@Vinnie_Angelo . If Mother, She who is, does not call you into Her acceptance. you may well pray to flatulence in the wind. I am a Student of the Most High, taught and trained by Her going into Her sixth year of translating Her word. May She who is, as Shiloh, written in Her word, call upon you, that you might be found worthy to be Her Krossumah David, hidden in Her word.
@@Vinnie_Angelo You people have been blinded from the first church of the first century, and still try and defend a Latin-translated trinitarian doctrine eliminating the real person that She is the main subject, and was eliminated through Latin trinitarian translation. I am not man-approved nor seek man's approval, but my Mother called me out of this terrible translation. Telling me, it is time.
@@craigleblanc1334 I look up and around. I look deep inside my created mind. I can't deny a creater of supernatural extreme intelligence exist. To close your eyes. Plug your ears and chat ,"No. No. No, God isn't real !" Is the obvious delusion here
There are unfortunately a new branch of heretics that reject Paul's letters, saying they are corrupted or contradict the Bible unfortunately, so you will need some really strong and firm evidence (if you do apologetics) to use Paul's letters as a 100% reliable source for the other party.
So…I’m about 12 minutes into the video, and I was kind of hoping that you might address the specific objections that I raised to both the concept of the Trinity, as well as the supposed “dual nature” of Jesus. Granted, you’re definitely and obviously under no obligation to address anything that I’ve said, so I guess I’m just communicating that this video has fallen short of my expectations. Really, rather than explaining anything in a way that might address/refute objections, or alleviate confusion, you’re instead essentially just reporting what the Bible and church orthodoxy have to say on the matter. Well, so what? None of that changes or challenges any of the objections that I’ve made. The notion that Jesus is simultaneously 100% man and 100% God is a violation of the logical law of noncontradiction, in the exact same way that a square circle or a married bachelor would violate that same law. Trinitarian dogma also runs afoul of basic logical rules, because deductive logic statements in the form of hypothetical syllogisms show that, if A = B is true, and if B = C is true, then it follows by logical necessity that A = C must be true. By that same logic, if the Father is God, and God is the Son, then it must be true that the Father is the Son. You don’t seem to have any way around any of this. In some way, you seem to tacitly recognize how logically absurd and therefore confusing all of this Trinitarianism and “dual nature” of Jesus stuff is, because you recognize that literally nothing else is thought to work in remotely this same way. Your “explanation” seems to be that, well, the Bible says it in various places, and the church internally struggled with it for centuries before formally codifying a dogma around it, so it is what it is. That’s not helpful, that’s just special pleading, so far as I can tell.
@@Supercharge7868 How could both options (A) and (B) be equally true? They contradict each other. Furthermore, if God is “outside logic”, then I’m assuming by that you mean something like “logic can’t apply to God” - if that’s the case, then Christians can’t make any logical arguments for the existence of God (because those arguments all appeal to the same basic rules of logic that all counterapolgetic objections are based on), and you’d basically just be tacitly admitting that God is logically incoherent. Or, if the latter is the case (God is logic), then I don’t see how you’d have a problem with any of the objections to Trinitarian dogma that I raised, since my objections appeal to rules of logic. That’s ignoring the problem that logic doesn’t have any agency in and of itself; it doesn’t DO any of the things that theists claim that God would be necessary for (creation, salvation, etc).
That's actually a great question (why should anyone care what the bible says?). I'll probably make a video on that in the future. If the Bible isn't trustworthy then any belief built from it is just personal philosophy and subjective ethics. However, if it is trustworthy, then that's a game changer, isn't it?
@@Vinnie_Angelo I don't know if "trustworthy" is a good metric. I want to know if the claims made therein are true? We already know that many, if not most, of the biblical accounts and claims are not true, so this is the metric I am using to dismiss this book as just that, a book.
The concept of the Trinity is logically incoherent, and therefore nonsensical. To say that Jesus is both 100% a human being, while at the same time and in the same sense that he is 100% God, is a violation of the logical law of noncontradiction, which is the logical rule that observes that two contradictory propositions CANNOT both be true in the same sense simultaneously. For example, a shape cannot be both 100% a circle and 100% NOT a circle at the same time. Similarly, Jesus cannot both be 100% man and 100% NOT a man at the same time - but to say that Jesus is 100% God is to say that he is 100% NOT a man (unless you’d like to argue that there are no distinctions between man and God). Look at it this way: on Christian theism, man is created by God, yes? God, on the other hand, was never created by anything or anyone, yes? So, was Jesus created by God? If so, then it wouldn’t make any sense to say that Jesus is God, because that would entail that God created himself. On the other hand, if Jesus was NOT created by God, then Jesus could NOT be fully a man, because man is created by God. So, which is it?
@@NathanColvin Hello Nathan, thanks for contributing and thanks for trying to give an intellectually honest critique. I can see that you’re actually attempting to understand christian theism and engage with the christian position without invoking a straw man (unfortunately this is not always the case). Real talk, I appreciate your approach. A few thoughts: Your claim that “ the concept of the Trinity is logically incoherent” isn’t then supported by the rest of your argument, as you go on to argue against the logical consistency of the nature of Christ (and not actually engage with trinitarianism). I think you bring up some great points of discussion there, but rejecting the soundness of the nature of the personhood of Jesus doesn’t negative the philosophical soundness of the doctrine of the Trinity. The next video I’m working on actually is addressing the duel nature of Christ, and so I’m glad you made the comments you did, as I will try to address some of that as best I can.
@@Vinnie_Angelo Your reply didn’t seem to correct or refute any of the points that I made. You essentially just asserted that I’m wrong (somehow), without explaining why or how I’m incorrect. Can you start by answering the direct question that I asked: Was Jesus created by God? If so, then I do not see how you can argue that Jesus was fully God, as that would entail that God created himself when he created Jesus; if Jesus was not created, on the other hand, then he couldn’t have been fully a man, because man is part of God’s creation. I’m fully aware that Christians try to rhetorically evade this obvious logical problem by appealing to the notion that there are “3 persons in the Godhead”, but I’ve already explained how that concept leads to a direct violation of the law of noncontradiction.
@@Vinnie_Angelo So, I’ll try this another way, even though I think that my initial explanation of my objection is still valid and unrefuted. The doctrine of the Trinity says that the Father is God and God is the Father, the Son is God and God is the Son, and the Holy Sprit is God and God is the Holy Spirit. It ALSO says that the Father is NOT the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Father or the Son. The hypothetical syllogism shows that if A = B and B = C, then A = C. The doctrine of the Trinity accepts the first two premises (A = B and B = C, but then denies the conclusion that necessarily follows from those premises (A = C). If the Father is God (A = B), and God is the Son (B = C), then the Father must logically be the Son (A = C). You guys deny that conclusion, and in doing so deny basic logic.
Sorry for my oversight, I was replying from my phone and I missed some of your comments. I still stand by my point in that your main concern doesn’t seem to be with Trinitarian theology, but an objection to the dual nature of Christ. I will attempt to address your question as best I can. Theologically, it’s necessary to define what we mean by “Jesus,” to make sure we’re not talking past each other. The “Son” (the second person of the Trinity) is uncreated. Historic Christian theology teaches that the Son is eternal, uncreated, and there was never a time in which he came into existence. One of the early phrases used to describe the Son is “homoousios” (i.e., ontologically, the Son is the same nature/substance of the Father). Regarding “is Jesus” created?” Christian’s believe that the eternal Son took on flesh-he stepped into his own creation. This is known as the incarnation, in which a physical mom gave birth to a Palestinian-Jewish male who was named Jesus-the eternal Son took on the full nature of a human being. Not sure if that helps clarify the Christian position. Again, from my standpoint, there is no logical issue with the ontological position of Trinitarian theology, at least, it hasn’t been presented yet in this exchange. This is why I argue that your rebuke is regarding the nature of Jesus (post incarnation).
@@Vinnie_Angelo No, I’m objecting both to supposed “dual nature” of Jesus and to the doctrine of the Trinity; Jesus’s supposed “dual nature” is a consequence of Trinitarian dogma. I posted another reply, about two minutes before your most recent reply, which might help us more quickly get to the meat of my objection.
the first small youtuber who has a basic understanding of church history and believes in the Trinity! I always love hearing small youtuber's talk about theology because it's independent thinking, and not a huge audience influencing or criticizing you for your work. Question: What denomination are you? I am Lutheran, and I heard you grew up Lutheran which is really cool.
Hey bud, glad you dig the videos (should have another one dropping next week on the Council of Nicaea). I've been in a baptist congregation for the past decade, but I share various theological/ecclesiological convictions, so I don't really fit into one box.
God said Let US make. (Gen 1:26) The US is God the Father and the Word. The Word was made flesh. (John 1:14) God is Spirit, not a Spirit.(John 4:24) If God were "a" Spirit, like six feet tall,with white hair and beard, then how could we all exist IN Him as Acts 17:28 says: "In Him we live and move and have our being". and (Collosians 1:16) " I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) Why wasnt the Holy Spirit mentioned? Because God IS the Holy Spirit! There is not any place that mentions a third person called the holy spirit. God the Father and God the Son,Jesus Christ are the One family of God as of now. "Us" does not require three to make two.If God is making children then the family of God will consist of more than three, or many,many more sons and daughters. They also will be ONE in Christ (John 17:21) , as it is "Christ IN you the HOPE of glory" or immortality.(Collosians 1:27) To add to this, read all the epistles and you will not find a greeting saying "peace to you and grace through God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit" because God, meaning Jesus Christ and His Father are the existing Spirit family we know as God. Jesus Christ when resurrected became a life giving Spirit, as was His former place with God the Father (John 17:5) No place where the bible identifies God as a trinity. Its a false teaching.By trhe way, I live near Lake Tulloch, a very hot place but the fishing aint bad. Its much nicer up Highway 4 in the High Country.
Hi @billygoat5091. So you just listed a lot of things (which are all interesting discussion points, but too numerous to engage in thoughtfully here). Just to address a few of them: 1. I didn't appeal to Gen 1:26 (Us) as an argument for the Trinity. I actually don't think that this is the point of the text. 2. Your challenge to "read all the epistles and you will not find a greeting saying 'peace to you and grace through God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit'" forgets about 1 Peter 1:1-2 (To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion...2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood). Peter clearly lays out a distinction between Father and Spirit here (there are a number of places we can also go to see this distinction of personhood). 3. I'm not sure I understand your question of "If God were "a" Spirit, like six feet tall, with white hair and beard, then how could we all exist IN Him..." If a spirit was 6 feet tall with white hair and a beard, then it wouldn't be a spirit at all.. It would be a human. Is your conception of God that he's a physical man some where in outer space? Thanks for the interaction
@@Vinnie_Angelo 1 : many people have used this "us" to prove a trinity. My point was that "Us" does not mean three, but can mean two or more. 2: Being set apart by the Spirit is not a proof of another person of a trinity. "The Lord IS the Spirit"...( 2 Cor. 3:17) " I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30) They are ONE Spirit, as they are both Spirit'".I am in the Father and the Father is in Me and I in you" (john 14:20) and (Eph 4:4-9) "there is one God and Father of all , who is Lord of all , works through all and is in all. (by grace or devine influence upon the heart.) 3: Just adding this to show that God is Spirit and everything is in Him,that is His creation.(Acts17:28) God is not bound by nature and its laws. Size and distance or anything that is natural (that we see) is made of things that are not seen,that is of Gods Spirit and energy or light.The heavens cannot contain Him, (1 Kings 8:27) God is Holy, and God is Spirit so the Holy Spirit is God,not another person. Anyway, thanks for replying, I see we dont agree, but I believe Christ Jesus is my Savior and Lord and God, as He is the exact image of the Father (Collosians 1:15) Blessings be upon you...
@@billygoat5091 I appreciate your civility in conversation. Sounds like it would probably be a great in-person talk to have (as you have a lot of points to go over).
@@Vinnie_Angelo i think the US in Genesis is a reference to the Trinity. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternal and were present at the time of creation, otherwise why say Let US create?
@@billygoat5091 Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to comfort the early Church, and He ascended to be with God at His right hand. So, yeah, the Holy Spirit is distinct from God and Jesus, but one like Jesus, so God.
Also wanted to add, check out Lutheran Satire and see what St Patrick goes through sharing the Trinity with Connel and Donnel (it hilarious and very informative).
Hey, it’s weird that people come here to comment hostility… but to be expected. I’m amazed at the clarity of your mic! I used to firefight up in Redding/Mt Shasta area. Beautiful country but SO HOT! I live in Coronado, if you ever make it this way, love to ride with you. We also have theology on tap at McP’s bar every Friday at 4pm.
Thank you for explaining the Trinity. It’s a complex subject you covered right out of the gate. Solid theology and teaching. I like the scenery it’s a nice touch. Glory to God.
@@john211murphy so you wish to rationally explain existence? And you are angry at anyone who sees God as an explanation for existence? I infer this from you CAPITAL LETTERS AND AGGRESSIVE STATEMENTS, but an honest man hates being lied to and I respect that.
Great video and presentation!I spent hundreds of hours in the Word(a KJV and a NKJV for some language clarity) while in prison for 2 years.God the Holy Spirit lead me to the truths you're laying out and it's great to hear your discoveries on this amazing revelation of our mighty God in His fullness!....love and respect from Texas!...Brent
I think I've done a fair amount of study on the topic, so we may disagree, but I don't believe I'm brainwashed. Why don't you believe that the Trinity is a good theological representation of how God has revealed Himself through Scripture?
@@Vinnie_Angelo You taking it for granted that some imaginary super-ghost "has revealed himself through scripture" and then merely looking for the best "theological representation" of it, demonstrates how brainwashed you are. Now, be sure to wear full protective gear every single time you ride.
@@gdevelek Well, there are a few different questions happening there, aren't there? 1. (what I'm dealing with in the video), is how the Bible portrays the God of Israel. The second question (that you are bringing up) is the question of something to the effect of "does God exist?" That's certainly a valid conversation to have, but please don't assume I've merely been "brainwashed"....you don't know my story and how I've come to my own theological conclusions. I am curious, what is your biggest objection to the belief in God? (also, I agree with you about wearing gear. most of the time I suit up)
@@Vinnie_Angelo Why don't you tell me your story then, namely "how, why and at what age you became a christian?". In as few words as you like, as long as these questions are answered clearly. And we'll go from there.
There's a reason you don't have any friends.If this is how you communicate in life,you are definitely a little crybaby pee pee pants.This dude's taking time to reach out to you and you respond like a 3 year old little brat.🎯
Thanks for sharing. Trinitarians also believe that Jesus is the Son of God (and in the Father). Curious, what made you change your mind about the Trinity?
Amen, brother. This guy confuses Christ being called “god” two times in the New Testament with the idea of God being identified as Christ. It's not the same thing. And God is never called Christ, nor is God ever called the holy spirit. And the passage where it says “the Lord is the spirit. . . Paul is talking about Christ! Except when quoting the Old Testament, Paul always means Christ when he uses the word “Lord.” And all of the fulfilled prophecies were about other people, but were reapplied to Christ. We don't assume that Jesus literally is Isaiah’s child, ostensibly born out of wedlock, who was supposed to be named Immanuel, so why would we assume that Jesus is the YHWH of the Hebrew Chaldee version of the Old Testament when Mark quoted the Septuagint, which uses the word “lord,” and reapplies it to Jesus? None of these trinitarian arguments make sense.
@@Vinnie_Angelowhat made me change my mind was looking at as many trinitarian proof texts as I could, asking if the trinny interpretation is what the text can only mean, or does the text yield more reasonable answers? Well, that and the fact that too many statements of Scripture clearly contradict the doctrine and require weird, unbiblical kinds of arguments to make them fit.
@@ianpaul3547 Hi Ian, I'd argue that the entire New Testament story is identifying Jesus as equal with God (it's not merely two passages). In regards to Mark, yes, Mark's quoting of the LXX uses kurios/lord, but that's just because the LXX translators used Greek (and never inserted Hebrew). This is what makes the passage so significant, in that the original Hebrew clearly uses the tetragrammaton (YHWH) as the identity of the anticipated one coming from the wilderness, with Mark identifying this YHWH as Jesus.
I appreciate your exciting teaching style and teaching of all things biblical. Praying for you and family in your new adventures for Christ. May they be fruitful and multiply. Glad you are staying in the area as well. Retired electrician now so need anything ask and I can try to help. God bless.
Thank you brother for all that you have done. Appreciate your leadership, wisdom, guidance and more. Look forward to what the Lord has you doing in the future, the next….😀😀
