I don't like CJ's approach and you can dismiss all his personal attacks or missguided arguments, but the exposed lies and misrepresentation of other people in Noodle's video are very clearly made in bad faith, at what point you can condense something without taking away the message? I think its important to make justice to a video when you are talking about it and watching Noodle's sources really makes him look bad, you can say he was just resuming, but he really made dirty to most of them just to prove his point that we were in the wrong all along, all you have to do is watch the source videos, in all of them the autors acknowledge indie devs are not the focus of this criticism, some even point out responses to the original Nelson's thread, which is either ignorant or selfish, I have nothing against the guy, I even feel empathy for him as someone into game development, but he missed the point and he deserves the criticism. This wave of criticism was directed specifically for triple A studios, no, that's not a bad statement, this whole discussion didn't came because bg3 was too big and good, it came because bg3 was too good despite being an indie studio, it came because there was a contrast, the general perception of big studios is to expect very flawed games, that's why people is asking triple A studios whats their excuse, nobody is asking another indie devs to go big, or any studio to go big, they are asking why bigger studios that went for big deliver such poor quality results, look I don't want to defend CJ's video, I want to defend the integrity of videogames and developers who care about the industry as a form of art, and while it seems Nelson and Noodle does they are missing the point and scolding the wrong people, at least Nelson just missed the point, Noodle knew if he had to make everyone look bad Again, saying this criticism was directed to tripple A studios specifically is not a bad statement, you are pointing out that a good game will have an impact on everyone, not just on triple A studios, but that doesn't change the fact the scold was aimed to big companies, a good game will have a huge impact and may rise the standard of people? maybe, but nobody is asking that for every game, we are asking that for games that cleary are not making the most with what they have and they are charging the most anyways Noodle's video is a huge scold out of nowhere and if it wasn't for the misleading edits I would let it pass at least as uninformed, but is hard to believe someone who took all those videos to edit didn't watch them, the overall message is something I agree with, I just don't like to be called ignorant for something he is trying to make me think I forgot, I think that's part of why CJ's went to far with him, it really feels bad from Noodle and is coming from someone subcribed to him, you can say that CJ's is ignoring what doesn't fit his narrative, but the whole point of his video is that Noodle is doing the same, and there is truth on that, yeah, your video is biased for Noodle's and that's fine, but to properly attack CJ's arguments you have to go for Noodle's one as well which was absent here and left me waiting, not just the one most known edit, but the whole piece, again, many people featured in Noodle's video speak of the problem as a whole, not just Legacy, who got a part sliced not because it changed his argument but because it didn't fit the narrative of the whole video, not just his quote, even if you think the edit is not that important, which it is, and I like how you explained it, still weird Noodle shows the youtube player, that only shows he wanted to present it as if it was like that without editing, like you have to admit that if it isn't that important or changes nothing, why letting that? This whole discussion makes me sad, because it comes from nowhere and divides people who are in the same band, I wish someone else besides CJ would call them out for this because he diminish his own arguments with his video, but I wish people would call out Noodle as much as CJ, because while you somewhat argumented against CJ you didn't argue against his best points because as a fan of Noodle I feel in the wrong siding with him
Ah yes, the next episode of "RU-vid recommendation drama" I know of Noodle only from his Please Stop Talking appearances and said BG3 video since it was recommended on YT Then got the CJ video and now this What will happen on the next episode (for which I'll also be at least a month behind)
Your point on mysteries is why I hate what they did to the zonai so much. They basically ruined the mystery of who they were whilst still giving it zero substance. Truly the worst of both worlds
I don't particularly appreciate people cynically reducing the sentiment of "You should want to learn more about the thing you won't shut up about to contribute more meaningfully." down to just "You should... shut up..." How's that for "fabricating a new context"?
Honestly fuck all this, my take is this, Baldurs Gate 3 didnt raise the RPG game standards, but raised the Quality Standard and that's how it should be. If you have the power the funding and the people to make a game as ambitious as BG3 then fucking upkeep quality *Ubisoft you still fucking suck*
Every one should listen to my opinion because it is objectively correct, boulder gate three was unique it was allowed to be unique, AAA games are put on a tight leash, 28:29 which is why boulders gate three raised the stranded, as in AAA games should be made games before they are profit cows to Be milked. I didn't like noodles video because he just blames gamers, for their miss guided criticism, targeting a small guy, and also his thesis which is games developers being forced to make games big because gamers like big, what gamers like is circumstances, ceo's and investors force the developers to make what gets back profit, big is an easy and safe way to matket your game, to a massive crowd, aj video is clearly by a crazy guy, but I still believe there's valid criticism, mostly on noodle not seeing the forest from the trees.
also both you and cj use asshole language like not trying to be rude but going "heh... i destroyed his entire argument" is lame... both you cj and noodle are all liars its kinda brazy
“Telling them to do better without understanding what the actually do” is literally what happens in the ending of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier “You need to do better Senator”
Wow, A Feature length cope about an opposing party's legitimate criticism of that disingenuous excuse of a video, complaining about petty remarks to paint the target as bad faith, completely ignoring valid points on a flimsy basis, playing up minor discrepancies as deceit, completely manufactures rebuttals by missing the point of the criticism in the first place *multiple* times. admits to bias, expects to be taken seriously. Its all here folks! and ripe for the picking!
What I really find hard to understand is how did balding door 3 set a “new standard” for triple a games. This is a game with some graphical downgrades could run comfortably on ps4 and hell I’d say even the ps3 has a chance to run it. This game goes nowhere NEAR to the monstrous tasks that are made by rockstar. (I checked up and the development cost of baldurs gate 3 is quite a good amount around a 100 million so I guess if you want you can disagree with this point but I think most triple a games have budget near this amount so I might be wrong about this)But the only thing is that it’s a feature rich, complete, non buggy game(for the most part) with a good story. How did it “raise the standard”. The only thing I see is that the basic standard which we should expect from all triple a 60$ games has been met.
31:48 I really don’t understand how you can assume their talking about thee standard and not THE standard. From what I see most people are talking about the fun done and no micro transactions standard. That’s why people like tears of the kingdom and elden ring too even though tears of the kingdom is basically a botw expansion pack at most. This part of the video is extremely iffy to me
@@Ahmadabdal_ This guy completely lost me when he made the point on misinformation by playing up matter of fact discrepancies in *screenshots* especially when he brings up cyberpunk's 2012 *announcement* by completely missing the point and talking about *developmen* dates, legitimately misrepresenting him to make ut look like he's lying, honestly this whole video is terrible, as it cares more about disingenuously dressing down the original video than actually engaging with its main point.
I personally like getting physical media for a couple reasons. 1) I own it and I can watch it whenever I want. The downsides are space to store it and yes discs can get scratched/damaged and you might not be able to rebuy it. 2) I don’t have to worry about a streaming sites just yanking a favorite show off of their site and never being able to watch/buy it outside of piracy. That’s just my take, I’m sure an argument can be made for streaming only, if that’s your preferred watching habit than continue to do so.
3:10 - I think you lack a bit imagination here, having an archeologist just tell you might be boring but maybe finding a live one somewhere, say, in depths would surely be a sight to behold and answer some questions to satisfy everyone. Mystery with a boring conclusion are bad, mystery with an interesting conclusion retains it's awe. 3:25 - As you say, this is a nitpick. This isn't a important point in skittybittys video, it's just one of many examples something that COULD get answered. It's kind of like getting stuck on one joke among 20 other things said. 4:36 - Not having obvious people remember you takes you out of the game, it ruins immersion when the world is not consistent being direct sequel to BotW. They didn't need to write about everyone remembering Link, they only needed to not write it like it's their first time meeting. Also, I don't know if this was a joke but everyone would read a newspaper when it's brand new and the only way to get news in the world. 6:50 - Skitty doesn't gloss it over, it doesn't matter because even though she too did the dive it did not prevent the conclusion from ruining the experience. Also if you didn't buy and play the DLC I don't think you're really qualified to debunk other peoples lack of excitement over them, these are bigger fans of the games than you are. That's why they bought and played the DLC, they should be enjoying the games more than you did, yet they are being punished for playing the previous game. 7:35 - The problem is that the mazes were three time bigger than last time yet not only was the reward an item from the last game, it's worse gear than we got there in BotW. Like literally getting the Barbarian armor would be more useful because you will never use the Ganon armor if you have Barbarian armor. It has the exact same effect as the Barbarian armor so it's literally a downgrade. I also didn't give a damn about the plot of the mazes but when the reward is so bad compared to BotW it's almost insulting. 8:55 - I don't know how you can say TotK or BotW isn't perfect and in same breath question why someone would want TotK to improve upon the not perfect parts when it is the direct sequel. Unless you thought BotW was perfect with nothing to improve on it makes no sense to question WHY someone would want it to be improved. 10:01 - ...Really? You made a response video to a video you only watched like 20% of and you mention it now at the end? Geez, thanks for wasting my time.
1. I think you're missing my point about mysteries. They aren't supposed to have answers to them, so expecting someone to answer them for you is a bit silly. Like, I would rather have my own interpretation of them rather than someone else's. Take for example, Stonehenge, one of the great mysteries of the world. Given its shape and structure, it was probably built by humans, OR nature could have somehow moved the rocks so perfectly in placed, that it hasn't moved in centuries. OR ALIENS. I think the canon answer is lamer than anything that I can think of. It's not that I lack imagination, it's that I want to preserve it. 2. While it definitely is a nitpick, it still bothered me enough where I wanted to point it out. 3. So I linked a video in the description going over this exact issue. It details which npc remembers link and which ones don't, you should watch it. I guess to counter your point, I find it more immersion breaking if nearly everyone remembers link. Something pointed out in the video was a lot of the people who don't remember link were the Gerudo, who only saw Link in disguise, and shopkeepers and merchants. Out of the thousands of people you meet every day, can you seriously recall the face of a customer you met once over 5 years ago. 3.5. Yes it was a joke, but in seriousness, I don't expect everyone to suddenly pick up a newspaper, even if it were brand new. The only ones reading it were people in the stables. I don't think anyone outside of them has read them. 4. I'm not punishing Skitty for playing the dlc, I don't know where you got that from. Because I haven't played the dlc, we just sorta experience the rewards differently is all. I don't think I'm discrediting their point? I just feel like the point they're trying to make is harder to convey to someone who didn't buy the dlc. 5. Skitty was trying to link the Barbarian armor to the mazes, and my point was that there was no special significance for the barbarian armor to be in the mazes, so I don't get why the ganon armor being there was a problem. 5.5. I think this point is really interesting and it makes me want to ramble about game design and stuff. I guess to keep it brief, I don't mind that the reward was kinda bad, I had a fun time getting it. In my opinion, the reward doesn't necessarily have to match the experience, and vice versa. 5.75. The barbarian armor has attack up, and the ganon armor has sneak, they do different things. You might be thinking of the phantom ganon armor 6. I didn't question Skitty for wanting the game to make improvements, I said we view the game differently. I believe Skitty wanted a fundamentally different game, whereas I basically got what I wanted is what I was saying. I obviously do want the developers to iron out the problems of Breath of the Wild, but Skitty has different issues that they probably didn't have in mind. I don't know, I think we all have different ideas of what Tears of the Kingdom should have been. 7. I think it's fine to respond to stuff that I haven't finished. Skitty's video was made in a way that I can probably finish the entire thing and all the stuff I responded to will still hold weight. Yeah, I guess I should have disclosed that information at the start of the video, I didn't think about that sorry. 7.5. I made this video because I wanted to discuss a game that I liked by contrasting it with someone who didn't like it, which led to you hating my video, and me writing all of this. I don't think it mattered that I finished the video, I set out to have a discussion about a very controversial game, and I got that, so thank you. Sorry for wasting your time.
@chaosblade3358 “my point was that there was no special significance for the barbarian armor to be in the mazes, so I don't get why the ganon armor being there was a problem.” Are you being serious here? It’s a well documented fact that the barbarian armor was worn by an ancient warlike tribe from the faron region, it’s literally in the item description so it’s not even a mystery. The faron region is home to the zonai ruins which shares architectural designs with the mazes, meaning the mazes are also built by the zonai . Logically, it follows that the barbarian armor is a zonai armor, so it makes sense that it would be found in the zonai mazes. And that’s besides the point that the phantom ganon armor can’t be upgraded, so it’s literally a downgraded reward for a maze that tripled in size. So yes, the barbarian armor makes way more sense as the mazes rewards than the phantom ganon armor. This is the exact kind of environmental storytelling that tears of the kingdom, not only refused to elaborate on, but actively discarded.
I actually didn't know that the barbarian armor belonged to the zonai, so I will concede on that point, it's been forever since I played the game and I can't remember every detail. Still though, it doesn't make that much sense for Skitty to be this mad at the ganon armor being in the mazes. They not only hid a pair of barbarian armor in the mazes above ground, but underground too. Like, that's a bit silly if you think about it. And besides, I don't think this criticism holds that much weight from a gameplay perspective too. If you play a sequel and do a similar quest from the original, do you expect the exact same reward you got from before, no you don't. I think it makes the game sorta predictable in that regard. And about the point about upgradable armor, I hate upgrading armor, it's my least favorite part of Tears/Breath, so I like how I'm not pressured to do that. Plus the armor has the set bonus of not being detected by stal enemies and doing extra damage using bone weapons. Even without upgrades, this is a great effect to have at your disposal.
@@chaosblade3358 Respectfully, I strongly disagree. If you play a sequel and do a similar quest from the original, you expect to get a reward of equal or greater value. And the phantom ganon armor is mechanically, less valuable compared to the barbarian armor. I mean, it even shares mechanical overlap with at least 3 different armor sets. Armor which can again, be upgraded, which in turn increases their value. Even for someone like you who claims to not like upgrading armor, having the option to choose whether you want to upgrade your armor increases the value of those armor sets. But the phantom ganon armor doesn’t give players that choice. It’s also reused content, which you just argued against since you didn’t want to see the barbarian armor as a reward again. AND TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE, there’re even better armor sets that would thematically fit the mazes that already exists in TOTK and weren’t in BOTW, the dragon armor sets. Not only could you have the three pieces match the three segments of each maze, body on land, head in the sky, and leggings in the depths, you could even have their corresponding weather effects active around the mazes. This would let you use each armors ability to fight monsters, if not inside the mazes, then at least in the surrounding area of the mazes. And thematically, the dragons could match each mazes triforce theme. This could even have had story implications, with connecting the zonai and the dragons, and the mysterious fourth dragon that wasn’t in BOTW. I mean, TOTK was supposed to be all about the zonai and yet the zonai mazes didn’t do or reveal anything in the story. Seriously, how do you expect anyone to believe that phantom ganon from ocarina of time is supposed to be more related to the zonai in any way after you finish the mazes? At least the barbarian armor had the faron region and zonai ruin architecture to connect it to the zonai. This helped create the compelling mysteries of who the zonai were and how they influenced hyrule, mysteries that were promptly thrown in the trash for TOTK.
*Afterthoughts* I probably could have worded some of my thoughts better, but I'm pretty okay with how this turned out. I just wanna clarify a few things though. Towards the end I said I disliked the video. So, I disliked it simply because I didn't agree with Skitty's points, this doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of the video or anything. It takes a lot of work for someone to make a 4 hour review, and I respect that. I also said I thought the video was pretty interesting, but I didn't really get to dig into the more interesting aspects of Skitty's video. Like, I thought what they had to say about Ultrahand and the menu was interesting, but my thoughts on those were a bit longer and more complicated. Someday I may talk about it, but it won't be for a while. This video was supposed to be a short in between video for my next project, and I have more things planned after that too. I realized after recording all this that while I did respond to a lot of Skitty's criticisms, I didn't really talk about what I liked about Tears of the Kingdom. Fortunately though, one of my next videos will have me talk very positively about it, so stay tuned, I guess.
I don't know what to think anymore. I saw Noodle's video, then CJ's video, then I read a random comment congratulating CJ for being Pro-Communist or something, and then I realized I was on the internet, which is chock-full of unhinged clout farmers. I really need to approach everything on the internet with skepticism.
yea i'm done with this tomfoolery. all this whole argument needed to start with was better clarification from the people who brought it up. now idiots like me get confused after watching a debunk.. of a debunk... OF ANOTHER DEBUNK!! and WHY DO THEY ALL HAVE TO BE AN HOUR LONG!?!?! i gotta life to live. leaving this comment here just in case a bot steals from me - zenlis 12
Tf!!! Larian is not an indie studio - I'd argue that they stopped being one after Divinity Original Sin 1. Why did you change the definition of what a game studio is? Why are you being pedantic? I caught 3 problems with your video before the 20:00 minute mark. I'm starting to feel the need to do a response video to this video.
Larian is an independent studio, so to some people, they are classified as indie studio. If you define AAA as big budgets and huge development teams, then they are also considered AAA. Crazy I know right. I think this distinction is sorta stupid, I play games based on how fun they are, and don't take this into consideration. However, a ton of the discourse relied on Larian being an indie studio, because people think "if Larian can do it, why can't Ea" or whatever, so I only referred to it as that. I think there's a lot of stuff you can say about the topic, but I think you need a different video discussing it. I wanted to tackle Cj's video, and not dive into every gamer opinion on the internet. Also, if you hate my video, make that response video, continue the chain my dude. Make sure you buy a crappier microphone than me.
the amount of people i've seen under noodle's video that watched CJ's video and, without trying to form their own opinion, *regurgitated it* by "calling out" nood on his "bullshit" is straight up rage inducing to me. is thinking for yourself just... dead? thank you for this video, swordsman.
I watched part of CJ's video when it came out. I was stupid at the time. With Noodle having been one of my favorite RU-vidrs at the time, I was so heartbroken and felt so goddamn deceived that I unsubscribed. Now that I am doing research on this topic several months later and realize more and more how bad faith CJ was, I feel *even more* deceived (for context, I can be a very naive person when it comes to online opinions sometimes). I feel like I owe Noodle an apology even though I said nothing to him, or anything about this on the internet in general. Makes me wish this video came out sooner. I'm resubscribing to noodle after this, thank you SO MUCH for making this. I'm gonna go rewatch his Need for Speed video now.
There is something magical about stumbling into internet drama where the only part I saw was one reasonable take (Noodle's video) and the conclusion (this video).
Realistic expectations are not high expectations and thus when making a game if you have high expectations lower them to realistic expectations... Isn't that...lowering your expectations? Idk. I'm going to watch the rest of the video. (they said it themselves...they wanted to pull the breaks and not make another game..... ( Ok so it cut off here and i don't know were the rest went)) Edited: 41:00 They say it themselves that they are done because they want to spend time with their family But yeah...they don't want to make another one because they make them too big and ambitious. it eats too much of their time and....no one told them to make games that would suck out their souls. They did that themselves. (I said something ruder but when editing some how it got deleted)
(putting an extra response here in the hope it won't get deleted) After watching the whole video...Im upset. All these people are arguing for the same thing and The creators of High Five Rush still got canned. Just. .GOD DAMMIT
I went to CJ's discord to see what he said about you: he calls you a loser, a noodle d*ckrider and makes fun of your sub count and says that you just made the video for attention. Classy guy
This has gone from a dude on twitter talking about a game, to a game journalist telling him he’s wrong, to noddle defending the first guy, to another RU-vidr tearing down noddles response, to you responding to that guy video. Who’s going to rip this guy a new one so we can keep this chain going until we forget why we’re here! ( JOKE! DO NOT DO! )
I think the crux of this controversy comes down to a misunderstanding. people are mistaking developers for publishers and shareholders. developers want to make a good game, and publishers and shareholders want your money, it’s that simple
