I haven't played Ur, but I feel like it is a decidedly better game than Backgammon, multiple d4 where 2 sides count as giving moves is massively bell curved. And being able to determine how to apply those is even better. It's specifically the I rolled and that number is the amount the piece moves. Is so much worse. It's weird how the worst of thousands years old games are the ones I've actually heard of and played
I think you title is misleading. Many games use randomness. The issue with games like Monopoly is the lack of agency; you actually make this point towards the end and it is the really issue here. For example, the royal game of Ur is actually interesting despite the randomness. I also don't think it really matter whether you have pre-luck or post-luck either; it's how it's implemented with the rest of the game. In fact pre-luck might be a bit easier to get right!!!
In Trivial Pursuit, the 'move' part is not essential. It's'essentially a stochastic lechanisme ; you could roll a colored die, or from a deck of cards, to determine the question theme. In Clue, that is even more true: the essence of the game is information exchange, not moving around. I recall playing it be mail (in days before the internet) and the rules had totally done away with the dicerolling. On the other hand, wargames are definitely post-luck, but the amount of input decision totally overcomes the impact of random'results (in good games). So there is nothing inherently bad in outcome randomness. The problem is when there is both input and output randomness, i.e. pure luck. Either with move (like also the Jeu de l'Oie), or withoit as in card battle.
I agree, whilst one may be used more often and more successfully than the other there is certainly a place for both. Particularly if you are aiming for your game to be thematic, sometimes output randomness is exactly what you need to deliver a deep connection between theme and mechanism. Thanks for your comment!
@@cogitodesign Best analogy I can think: Roll and move as a gameplay mechanic is as hard to implement as third act misunderstanding as a storytelling device.
I dont think its inherently bad. Maybe you roll many die and select which value goes where. Maybe your character augments numbers or you use cards to augment the experience.
Absolutely great mechanism. Hard to believe only 45 games use it but the 3+ player problem is clearly the reason why. The first game I remember using it was San Marco, about 25-30years ago. It worked well enough when it involved a 3 way cut, but I could see it wasn't perfect. Maybe it needs to be supplemented with a possible auction.
5:20 "Snakes and ladders if you're [British]": No! It's the other way around, "chutes" only used if you're afflicted by being 'murrican. It was a word chosen by a puritan American publisher (Milton Bradley in 1943) who objected to "snakes" that put the devil in mind (the Garden of Eden and all that). All other western languages have "snakes".
Similar to what @matias_moilanen had written below; I'd expected more of that content in the video (which felt more like a 'detailed unboxing' than a 'Production & Manufacturing Decisions' video.) A large part missing was, how did you choose your mfgr?.. did you develop the game, & then submit for quotes from each mfgr? What about quantity thresholds for either mfgr and/or shipping? What about how physically close and/or integrated the mfgr was with a given shipper? How many extra did you order?.. How did you arrive at that number? Etc, etc? And many smaller questions: for instance #1)) you chose wooden disks with silk-screening. I've seen silk screening wear off with oily fingers and/or sweat. Was that taken into account? Was it remediated somehow? If you wanted it to be color blind proof, you could have used different shapes (square, circle, triangle, star, etc) for the different colored wood pieces and achieved the same end result. Why was that route not taken? #2)) what about other minutiae?.. when some games ship, the wooden pieces are in a disposable bag, & empty zip lock bags are included for reusable storage ... idk, which way you went; but was there a decision, or were you stuck with what the mfgr could support? #3)) for various card sizes; did you calculate how many cards of each size would fit on a large "production sheet" (pre die-cut)?.. did that effect how many of each size of card would be included?.. did that effect game design/play? I would love to see a follow-up video that discusses much more of the "technical details" of the Production & Manufacturing process.
I feel like the power plant bidding in Power Grid is effectively last diminisher. You select a desirable "piece" (power plant) at a price. The larger that price gets during the auction the more "diminished" it is. That said, I could see this being a useful mechanic for games. Like an alternative to drafting, perhaps.
Yes, very good point. It does work in a similar way. The only difference I can see is that (I think) there is a slight advantage to going last in the bidding in Power Plant, particularly as new cards continually enter the market if you go last and a good new card enters the market you end up with no competitors. Thanks for your comment!
I completely disagree on one point. A game that is hazardous as a main mechanic is deeply unfair. It's literally the idea. Some will advance, others not, stuff happens, then one player wins because of complete randomness. Luck is profoundly unfair. The nature of advantaging some and not others is profoundly antagonist to justice, equality, and fairness. For that reason, and maybe the fact that luck and life are against me, I have been made hating board games as a whole, even to the point of hating TTRPGs like D&D which have a deep tendency of rulelawyer railroadery, while it was my hobby and passion at the time. I had a bad experience with one guy of this type. Because of this I have almost left games at all, while I was only lacking of narrative, fair games which I didn't knew existed back then. Thought it was important to say. Nature is profoundly NOT just, NOT equal, and NOT fair. Making someone win because of their random characteristics is purely evil. It should be a crime. But I guess thats just my outcast / misfit pov in life.
damn, I've been looking for a video game toolkit but for board games channel, and I think I've found it, thanks for the interesting video Edit: oh and sub
I much prefer thematic games. Eurostyle games all have the same underpinning mechanics with very slight nuances toward victory points. I can play eurostyle maybe 3 hours... Thematic i could play all night.
The one thing more prevalent to "fun" in board games is player interaction via a common play area. Pre luck, or roll and move, is generally bad but in games like Deepsea adventure or Formula D it's the changing game state that gives agency. Snakes and ladders, or monopoly (but not goose chase) it doesn't matter where other players are. There is no interaction at all. At least in monopoly you have half the time a choice to buy or not to buy. In catan, there's even less of that. The earliest post luck game is probably backgammon (or ur but the rules on ur are so vague I can't consider it a board game).
Yes I agree, Deep sea adventure in particular is a great use of the mechanism. One thing that stands out there is how quick games are, I think randomness gets more frustrating the longer a game lasts. Thanks for your comment.
It's not classified as an Area Control game on Board Game Geek. I'd say the emphasis is on trading and resource management for this one. Thanks for your comment!
Great video, the tactile nature of components indeed adds loads to the gameplay experience of a board game. My favourite are the screen printed meeples from Root (although those from Oath and On Mars come close). Metal coins are of course also phenomenal. I was also truly surprised by how much the sound bases of Dwellings of Eldervale add. You simply cannot remain serious and focused on the puzzle when the monsters got moved, we always laugh a ton with this game.
Thanks so much for your comment and really glad you like the video ☺ The screen printed meeples from Root are fantastic, I couldn't agree more! I think the metal coins in Distilled and Raiders of the North Sea are definitely my favourites. They just make the game feel way more premium and satisfying! I'll have to check out Dwellings of Eldervale, sounds interesting! Thanks again for your comment ☺
one way i worked around this was by changing how you use the results of the dice. you roll 2, then can either use one die, the other, both added together, or one subtracted from the other (sometimes even being able to move backwards). still luck based, but adds choice into it for strategy
This sounds like a great solution! Anything that gives back player agency and turns it from a post luck to pre luck decision is going to make gameplay more satisfying. Thanks for commenting!
With the added restriction of the first letters spelling ‘Meeple’: Most entertaining, effigy populations, Ludo entities. It’s really bad, but I managed it…
Thanks very much, much appreciate it ☺ Very pleased to hear this! I'm always here if any questions do crop up though 👍 Less than 1 week to go until launch day now!
The biggest problem with Legacy games is that you are trying to convert a permanent possession (a board game, that usually costs a significant amount) into a subscription model, which is by itself a toxic design. It relies on destroying (or changing, in your case), and allowing for more consuming at the cost of permanence. While I understand the idea, I would still strongly limit this to online board game sites.
@@cogitodesign Gotta say, did not expect a response on a 2-year old video :) I will add (as many have in the comments from what I see), it sounds like a healthier option to not enforce destruction of pieces, and instead create a progressively more complex boardgame (in the same mentality as buying TCG booster packs to expand your collection). That way, you get an ongoing, evolving stories, as well as the permanence of keeping everything, even if it is not replay-able.
I couldn’t agree more. I think a big part of board gaming is building a collection that you can dip into whenever you want and pull out the perfect game for any occasion. So the destruction of components is anathema to this. With Solar 175, we tried to lean into the fun discovery element of legacy games that allows your game to grow in a unique way but at the same time not to destroy any components nor to ever have a game that is ‘complete’. We try to reply to all comments no matter how old the video is as we very much appreciate people watching ☺️
Hm, then I must have misunderstood the explanation of your game somewhat (admittedly it was on the tail-end of a 5-hour boardgame design binge). I quite like the approach described in the comment! Also, thanks for being a part of my boardgame design journey (first playtests tomorrow!)
Thanks for your question ☺️ The screen printed meeples are in the base game. The acrylic standees replace the punch board standees from the base game 👍
We were given a game called Brandi Dog, which we haven't played, but it seems to be Ludo, BUT, you also have a hand of cards that you can use to influence your turn. So now you have luck of the roll, and draw, but also decisions to make.
This sounds interesting! I haven't seen this one but will have to look out for it! I like examples of games where you can mitigate luck. Thanks for sharing!
In one way this could also be seen as a very common rule used to balance abstract strategy games where there is a slight first-player advantage. I usually see it as "the pie rule" where one person makes the first move and the other decides either to claim that colour (and so the person who made the move takes the opposite colour from the move they made and has to play against it) or to make their first move with the opposing colour. On BGG if you look at the abstract game subdomain forums, you will see all sorts of games that use the pie rule.
The mini board game boxes fit neatly into the miniature shelving unit which has a custom place in the insert where it can remain fully assembled. The mini board game boxes all fit snugly inside of this and are very well protected. The boxes themselves are also very sturdy and we've had no issues of breakage/damage.
Thanks so much for your message, that's very kind of you! So pleased you like the look of Meeple Inc! We're so excited to launch- not long now 😆 *fingers crossed*
These are not tips at all. They are items from a checklist. I agree with the items but it won't help anybody at all because you completely bypass the HOW. Even as a checklist, you missed half the items.
I see this same "I cut you choose" mechanic on board game arena for Santorini. At the start of the game, there are god powers that give each player of the two players a unique power, some really good, some terrible. The first player has to choose two god powers to face off against each other (out of a random draw of six) and the second player gets the option to pick which one they want to play out of the two. This makes a fun dynamic of the second player wanting to pick what they think is the better god power while the first player wants to make the matchup as fair as possible so that the leftover option is winnable.
Hello, I'm getting ready to table this game and am doing preliminary research, which ended me up here- first of all, thanks for the game, which looks to be a lot of fun, and thanks as well for this instructional video. However, I have succumbed to information overload 😮💨 There are a lot of abstracted number values being discussed here, along with actions existing in a void bereft of relevance. Although I believe the structure has been well-designed and the video to be comprehensive, in a game of this nature, it would have served your purposes much better to have a pre-planned 2-to-4 turn playthrough of 2 players taking all the possible actions in order to demonstrate not only what an action results in and how they are implemented, but also WHY they are contextually relevant and prioritized. I suppose I feel this way due to my recent experience with Voidfall (and all other iconography/component-heavy euros), which was great...after the 4.5 hour punch, set-up, and apprising of symbology and again, relevance of action. Of course, when I realized it was largely Twilight Imperium: The Euro, everything fell into place for me, but initially it was a baffling slew. For me, it's not a deterrent to slog through a first playthrough, as I expect every mid-heavy to possess depth that is passively punishing to new players, but I have found that many will morosely retreat from the prospect of what is effectively schoolwork culminating in a failing grade. This is not to poo-poo your work here- the video has excellent editing, production, and pace, and you have a pleasant demeanor and speaking voice. Speaking for myself, the things I hoped to get here were: 1. Set-up 2. Actions being performed 3. Ballpark endgame scoring 4. Contextual priority of action 5. Neptunian bordellos JK!!! Maybe there is another video on your channel covering a playthrough, but seo/algorithim put this at the top, if playthrough has been covered, then...welp! Regardless, I'm really looking forward to playing this (and Gonza Index) on Sunday, and many weeks thereafter. Hope it is as good as it looks (great) and that your interest and sales contribute toward an expansion in future! Thanks again!
Thanks very much for your feedback and support. We're always looking to improve so thank you - we'll definitely bear your points in mind. There are a few playthrough videos out there. Here's the one by Tantrum House: ru-vid.comRC-mK56_bIo?si=49_o3CQZKQz6pwUb Enjoy!