At the Metal Shop, I work on cars and guitars! Sometimes I even play the guitars that I build in the Mad Axeman's Frankenstein Workshop!! If you are a DIY type individual, that likes to get your hands dirty, upgrading and modifying, this channel is for you!
D string kind of misaligned there, too close to the A string. Tuning issues? The best thing I ever did for my SG was install a "zero fret" nut; tuning issues completely SOLVED. I will probably put one on my LP someday but my 2017 Gibson Les Paul doesn't have the same tuning issues; I guess they finally cut a good nut at the factory.
I’ve been working on Floyd Rose tremolo systems for over 20 years. I have two ESP LTD guitars. One has the real Floyd, and the other has a cheaper model. They are in tune every time I pick them up, which is really all you can ask. I have an Ibanez S with an Ibanez branded locking trem. It is very picky. One thing I’ve learned over the years though: you can leave the strings on, take out the springs, and pull the bridge completely off the guitar (let’s say you are adjusting the string height on the bridge posts). If the nut is locked, you can put the bridge/springs right back on, and the guitar will be perfectly in tune. Amazing!!!!!
@@TroyShahanMusic I frequently use the locking clamp to make gross adjustments to my guitars. Meaning you can slack the strings, then clamp them in place and literally remove the bridge. This is how I install big brass blocks, and remove the neck for truss rod adjustments and even for swapping in new pickups!! People don’t realize just how versatile and simple, the Floyd is. 🤘😎
Mark Erliwine from Austin TX was supposed to be the best Guitar shop in town. He repairs "Trigger" Willie Nelson's famed guitar. In 1985 I took my $1500 San Dimas Strat to him to add my new original Floyd. I didn't have a record deal yet, I was 19 and a metal player. Point is I was a NOBODY and he did an absolute horrible job! Beware out there.
@@ModernMountainLiving Likely the first Floyd he’d ever installed. There is a STEEP learning curve! Assuming your Charvel was a Vintage Trem originally?
@@Metalcop5150 Yes, likely. In 1985 Floyds had bars that came with a wrench and the Posts were Flathead screws rather than the Allens of late and had NO insert. As for Mark blowing me off as stupid metal kid, in 88' our SONY record was Certified Gold and then sold Platinum (Dangerous Toys). Point is a true Craftsman should take pride in his work regardless. BTW back then Eddie and Brad had Original NO tuners Floyd. The cheapo Kramer FOCUS came with a No Tuner Floyd. Thanks for the info.
@@ModernMountainLiving Yup. I had a Kramer Striker w/ non fine tuning Floyd! My first “real” quality guitar was a 1986 Kramer Pacer American. Screw in bar, wood screw posts, non-recessed. It’s still what I prefer today. All my guitars have screw in bar/arms and are non recessed. (Couple of recessed, but not my preference). I install, and retrofit Floyd’s and always use the woodscrew posts. Loved Dangerous Toys, btw!! Got a couple of your tunes on my iTunes. Didn’t you have an Ibanez endorsement? I remember some cool guitars from those videos! 🤘😎🤘
@@Metalcop5150 I was/am a Les Paul guy so the non- recessed just made sense to me. Scott endorsed Washburn, Robin, Ibanez ... I only got one from Kramer because they had real Floyds. Remember when all the knockoffs had a hardened steel blade on the fulcrum and the rest was pot metal junk? I was watching since I am about to add a Floyd to a Les Paul JR. Having only one pickup, one knob and so simple there are no excuses but my playing if it doesn't work. Good talk, Thanks
am i the only person who thinks this should be common sense, like everything you said? the people on the internet giving bad advice are just idiots lol. great video!
You'd think, right?! Just yesterday a guy posted that he'd taken his Floyd apart and given it a good cleaning... over 20 years ago?! He had put the saddles back on in random order and they were all messed up! lol And he played that guitar for over 20 years like that?! Thanks for watching and commenting.
I am just learning about this ancient debate and I found your info very useful in forming my own opinion. It is a dilemma but if it gets solved, will we have too much time on our hands? I might get to learn how to play? And will I thank you again? Good luck friend. I admire your enthusiasm. KC
I've had the same strings on my ax for 16 months and the FR original still keeps it perfectly in tune. I've never understood what people are talking about when they say they won't stay in tune
@@Metalcop5150 its extremely simple right? The couple Kahler's I had were more adjustable but they destroyed the tone and would always go out even when I soldered the ball ends. Plus they're expensive
If memory serves.... R1 was actually made for putting a Floyd on a 70s-80s era Flying-V/Explorer. It was also used on the original Vivian Campbell signature Kramer Nightswan.
Yes, I'd heard about the Nightswans but not the 70's-80's Flying V's and Explorers? As far as I know, those were made to original Gibson spec, which has been a 1 11/16 nut, since the beginning of time, which would be an R3. I have no use for a neck as narrow as the Nightswan or the Music Man VH guitars for that matter. Just a preference, for me.
That isn't a Gibson bridge , that's a chinese bridge , it has a screwdriver adjustement , gibson's don't The tailpiece doesn't need to be fully down , it has scews to be adjusted and you need to raose it until the strings don't touch the bridge , it doesn't affect sustain at all the screws should face the neck at least in Gibson's guitars or well made eastern guitars like LTD etc just because it's easier to adjust the intonation with a screwdriver , cheap eastern guitars have bridge in the opposite way
The point is that people like the tailpiece screwed all the way down, against the body. You saying this it doesn't 'affect' sustain at all is merely an opinion, and one that is not shared by most guitarists. I DO believe that it gives better sustain and so do players like: Jimmy Page, Billy Gibbons, Zakk Wylde and Joe Bonamassa, amongst many, many others. And it really doesn't matter that this is an Epiphone bridge that has slots for adjustment, instead of just thumb wheels, as the original Gibsons have. All of the principles and factory settings that I discuss in this video are the same and accurate. Not sure why you felt necessary to comment on a subject that you clearly know very little about.
@@Metalcop5150that's exactly my opinion , you reply only to point out your opinion is better but I would say the stop tail is adjustable for a reason. As you said some players use wrap around but it's because they like the string tension and not because it affects sustain One of the most notorious guitar techs in London did set mine really high and I can say it doesn't affect sustain as i previously wrongly believed. Before that I used to have my stop tail as much close to the body as possible
@@vomito72 Again, more opinion, not backed up by fact. Notable players do it for sustain AND lesser string tension. Does it actually do either? I really don't know. However, I'm going to give A LOT of extra credibility and weight to players like Jimmy Page, Duane Allman, Billy Gibbons, Zakk Wylde and Joe Bonamassa, over some random guy on the internet. So it's not just MY opinion, it one that I share with these legendary players. Don't feel necessary to comment any further. Thanks.
Plz excuse me, this is possibly my 1st time onto your channel. With my collection & wanting to ditch the floyd rose Special & upgrade, where is it I can get these original floyd systems? Personally, I LOVE the Bendmaster trem & my fine tunners turn so effortlessly & it keeps tune better then any other guitar I own out of 22 guitars, I still go back to my Westone spectrum LX & ST. My point being, you have my attention & I need to upgrade to a better floyd!
@@d.j.9961 eBay and Reverb are the best places to locate an original (used) Floyd Rose trem. There are deals out there, but you have to be patient!! I have also bought a couple on FB Marketplace. Good luck! And thanks for commenting.
I put 5 springs on mine 12 years ago. I couldn’t remember why when I started playing again . I thought maybe it was a mistake and I was ruining my sound. I do use the heaviest set of strings possible. With no whammy bar. Should I change it ?
@@Lewd.audi0 Only if you would like to start using your ‘whammy bar’! Otherwise, leave it alone, it’s not hurting a thing. *If you wanted to start using your tremolo, I would recommend using the least number of springs and the minimum amount of tension necessary, to equal your strings tension and keep your trem level and flat. If it ain’t broke? Don’t fix it!! 🤘🤣
A place for spring innovation would be for someone to make them up using square wire stock. Square wire would increase the tension per spring as they have more overall mass and no loss of material between coils, with a great weight and durability. I have no doubt that two could achieve the pull of 3 angled or 3 straight round wire springs. They also could likely reduce the need for longer body routes to accommodate them, the claw and fittings, leaving more body wood. Spring manufacturers know this but the trem industry has yet to explore the possibilities. Who knows you might even pull off a one spring design or reduce overall noise associated with spring units.
Well I teach physics and the appropriate equation is Fs=kx. K is the spring constant or force per unit of displacement with x being the displacement. The f stands for "the guy critizing you is an effing moron.
Have you come across the metal plate that sits over the (2) body studs, under the front base plate of the tremolo? I experimented and removed it, so the bridge pivots just on the posts.. the sustain definitely improved. Seems to be with the “licensed” Floyds and the Wilkinson tremolos.
@@Metalcop5150Consider yourself lucky !! 🤪 tried to post a link… but it got removed? Guitar Fetish has an example of what I’m taking about with their “heavy duty” Floyd. I have a Wilkinson “Floyd” that had the same metal plate.. my sustain was minimal, and fought with it to return to 0.. saddle screws through the base plate were actually hitting that plate and left divots. I removed that plate and the sustain definitely improved along with stability. I appreciate the time and effort for the video. I’m always looking for knowledge and ways to improve my set ups. Thank you
@@DIMESCIPLE01 Just as an FYI, I don’t remove anything unless it’s blatant spam or hateful/bullying. YT likely held your comment as likely spam. Thanks for watching and for your multiple comments, I tricky appreciate your support. 🙏
The physics are somewhat wrong ;) your springs are always adding up to equal the string tension, so always 90lbs. The reason two springs feel less stiff is not because the initial tension is lower pr spring (it’s higher than with three springs, at 45lbs), but because using the tremolo is based on achieving a certain deformation, I.e. stretching or shortening the spring length a certain amount to achieve a desired pitch. The deformation length is the same whether using two or three springs, but using three springs you have to deform three springs, so you need 1.5 times the force to move them to the desired position for the desired change in pitch.
Yes exactly. I came looking for this comment before posting something similar. I think he’s just not explaining it well. No matter how many springs you have the tension will always be the same with the bridge in the neutral position. It will be the same as the tension of all the strings in that neutral position. Adding more springs will increase the force needed to push the bar down to lower the pitch. Some people like that. You have to loosen the claw though and that can cause the springs to be too loose when pulling on the bar to raise the pitch and the springs could fall out. This is also related to how on a strat with a decked bridge you will often see 5 springs to prevent the bridge from pulling up when doing a bend with the fret hand. That way you can ring an open note like the low E and bend on a higher string without the ringing note going flat. Or bending a string and then fretting another string. You can’t do those things on a full floating bridge.
I work on them. I love them. That out of the way now the only part that matters. Does it return to pitch after diving ? If it does, then nothing "hung" up. IF it doesn't, why ? What "hung" it up ? Did the string stay in the locking saddle, or did it move ? Out of tune Did the string slide thru the lock at the nut ? Out of tune Is the spring rubbing the wood in the spring route cavity because of poor alignment , bad spring claw placement, or wrong size block ? Is the arm mount rubbing the wood ? Ohh, nothings rubbing and nothing moved, gee you're still in tune....cool. It takes more work to set up a floyd correctly. Anybody bitching about working on a floyd is really just telling me they don't want to wotk. They are lazy. Same thing about stainless steel frets. Those guys who bitch its too much work. Its probably too much work to assemble a bologna sandwich too. Ohh, reading the floyd chart with the width and radius numbers.... priceless.
I had a Floyd installed on my 2nd guitar. I foolishly set it up differently than he gave it to me. 5 springs .12 gauge strings like srv. The posts ripped through that plywood body, broke the pick guard. It took a year or two of that abuse though sounded good doing it.. I always wondered why we put the same amount of spring tension on the low strings as the high strings though.
I used to subscribe to the gentleman you’re referring to. He’s just a grumpy old Canadian with some “ok” repair skills. During Covid he got a little preachy about politics and vaccines and it was a real turnoff. He’s got his moments, but I have seen him rant about the angled springs before and it’s ridiculous.
Bro the springs come that way. What was that dude's beef? It's like the dude literally said "Floyd Rose doesn't know how to set up their own bridge system"
Just gazing at them I always liked the MM best of these era Eddie guitars. But I appreciate now the efforts made with the Peavey to evolve the design and I expect it may be a more comfortable instrument to play with the carved top etc. (speaking only as someone who likes contoured tops for comfort).
@@jsnowdendavies The Music Man era of Van Halen, the band, was definitely more successful than the ‘Peavey era’. That being said, the Peavey guitars take a bad rap on reputation only. As Peavey has previously made “affordable” guitars, it was inconceivable that they could make a high end instrument to rival (and surpass, imo) the EBMM. They are fantastic guitars and way more affordable (for now) than the way overpriced and overvalued EBMM guitars. I highly recommend that you check out the Peavey. 🤘
@@jsnowdendavies The Axis actually addressed and fixed a few issues w/ the original guitars. Wider necks, (slightly) and a proper Floyd nut shelf, moving the 3 way switch etc. Excellent guitars. I don’t have any experience with the HP2, but I’ve watched a handful of videos and they get great reviews; excellent build quality and playability etc. They certainly ‘look’ fantastic.
You do know why the saddles are marked don't you.? That's because they are different sizes. If you remove them from the base plate, and set them on something flat, you will notice that the D, G saddles are higher, the A, B are next highest, and the E's are the lowest, this has how it's always been.. If your going to make videos discussing a product, make sure you know what your talking about
@@jimmikatt So you didn’t watch?! Because that is exactly what I said in the video. I explained the graduated heights of the saddles, to make the radius. I even went over the various markings and what they mean, including the precise measurement of each saddle. If you’re going to comment, you should actually watch the video and know what you’re talking about. 🤫🤡
I totally agree with you and I'll add that you may notice the middle spring on your guitar is a different type! Yes, there are different tensions of spring too. Ask anyone who races motorbike about valve springs, its the same on guitars. I have a box of springs cultivated from 30 years building guitars and in the 80s and 90s I never held them together so they're loose and I have to go through and bend them with my fingers to get a set as they vary a lot. I do like finding a good mix so you get a smoother tension across the trem movement.
@@PrinceWesterburg Yes, I hand select the springs w/ the best tension. I prefer a brand new set of Floyd matched springs but at times,I’ll use what I have on hand. Thanks for the view and comment. 🤘
There are two dimensional foces. The outer two springs produce a y and x force. The x is the cosine of the angle times the spring force times two for two springs. The middle spring for the most part can be though of only have a x force. However, I never t to analyzed it to this degree when I changed out my wilkerson to a floyd rose in my 1989 Charvel Model 6. I just put the new springs in with the same orientation as the original factory setup. It felt good I did notice a difference between the pot metal wilkinson and floyd rose. Good information.
man i've been trying to get a goddamn R10 for years. never in stock. i've emailed them multiple times, tried to get one custom made if they're discontinued, at any price. no response from floyd rose. if you have a 15+ fretboard radius, an R3 WILL FUCK YOUR TUNING. unless you grind it down yourself to a flatter radius, don't bother. find a cheapie and just keep replacing it when you wear it out
" 2 angled springs and one straight /|\ is under more tension than 3 straight springs ||| " Well no, because you're going to set the claw screws to provide the proper amount of TOTAL TENSION to match the string set and float the bridge. TOTAL tension will be the SAME for both fashions of attachment -- At the static setup of a bridge at rest.
That's just splitting hairs. How about this: there is more 'Potential' tension with this arrangement: /I\ than with this one: III lol Thanks for the view.
I don't remember why I put my springs in the way that picture shows, but I've done it that way as long as I can remember. It was probably Eddie. Great explanation! Thanks! I am a luthier, and now I will know what I'm talking about when talking about vibrato springs:)
Thing I've heard about the middle spring in a setup like that is it doesn't really start helping that much till you actually go to push down on the bar, with the delayed increase increase in tension (it was doing something it just had more available tension than the others) as the bar moves down is a neat little potential way you can dial in play feel.
Exactly! Of course the middle spring is working 'less' than the other 2, but it is still under tension and doing it's intended function. That is a perfect analogy; delayed increase in tension. And it is 100% about the way it feels. Arrange your springs however you want, to get the necessary tension to overcome the springs AND to get the feel on the bar that you desire. Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it.
My second guitar had a Floyd Rose and Guitar Magazine made sure I knew how to set it up. But... I've been a Gibson man for most of my adult life, but I still understand how the Floyd works.
Hi mate. Great video. I have been a luthier for more than 40 years, and i can confirm ALL what's beeing said in this video. All other BS, forget it. Thanks mate.
With all things being equal, 2 or 3 of the same length, same tension springs, if you arrange them angled /\ or /I\ you will get more tension than if you arranged the same springs straight or horizontally. That is basic physics.
So, to put an Original FR (to replace a Special) on a Jackson, with a 12-16" radius neck, but the OFR is 10 or 12", what do I need to do/buy for the correct 16" radius?
@@red7fifty It’s all good. The 12” radius on an Original Floyd Rose will work just fine. Jackson has been using the (10”-16”) compound radius since the beginning, with the stock OFR. Nothing custom necessary. It will drop right in and play perfectly. It’s a really good compromise on the radius w/ a good setup. Do it!! You won’t regret it.
*UNDERSTAND THIS IS ACROSS THE BOARD! the banks that own the major retailers and have backend deals with the majority of the manufactures and developers ae a conglomerate. They have many mechanism set up ONLINE eg [CULT OF PERSONALITIES, TASTE MAKERS, INFLUENCERS ETC] that are set in place to get you all worked up and BURN YOUR ENERGIES on endless bullsh@t, technical chasing, gear chasing, plugin chasing and too get you wrapped up in the DEBATE CULTURE, arguing and quarreling "ULTIMTELY" wasting time, wasting money and NOT being **#FOCUSED** on what you need to be focused on aka "YOU AFFAIRS", so they can sell you endless crap and buy time to RE-WORK the narrative of the entire industry with you not really seeing that their time is up and the middle men have been removed.*
Considering buying this for my 95 YJ. I’ve got the Cold Air Intake, bigger throttle body, and headers installed. I’m trying to find out if it’s possible to tune my ride with the OBD1 port, but I can’t find much info. All that searching lead me to this product from JET. How has this worked out for you?
@@smiles_per_gallon I’m not sure if it made a difference or not. I think by the seat’o’the pants meter? It did. But maybe I just really wanted it to?! Lol I think the JET modules are legit. They require a thermostat change, so the tube is definitely altered, significantly. If your running a lift and big tires? Every little bit helps. I say go for it. 🤘
