In your tutorial you say at the beginning that Room Perfect will first run a signal to determine the optimal volume level, required for calibration, then shortly after, you say that we have to raise the volume, manually (??!) It is unclear here, the software doesn't regulate alone the optimal volume, depending on what it received with the first signal emitted? do we have to adjust the volume too? If so, how do we know how loud to give it so that to not be too much and the results obtained are incorrect?
RoomPerfect will first run a signal to determine where the volume level is. It might be already at a useful level. If not, the app screen will recommend a level which is useful in these speakers in this room. You can raise it up to that level, or (if it seems much too loud, for example when it bothers others) chose a lower level and continue. But if you can, set it to the recommended number, so that the signal really excites the room acoustic problems and they will be addressed in the correction later.
Remember it is only important when combining different types of amplifiers with different latencies. If the SDA-2400 is used for all channels, no need to address any latency. Furthermore in the SDA-2400 there is only a minimal latency when its digital input is used (0.6 mS), and none when the analog input is used. As you can see it is very low, and the setting is more important for example for active subwoofers, which sometimes have a DSP (adding up to 5 mS or even more).
The TDAI-1120 is fully digital with no analog conversion inside, so it retains the digital audio quality coming in. The RoomPerfect processing is done in high-resolution using a 32 bit processor, retaining high-resolution audio - for example 24 bit and 96 kHz. The volume control is also done without the usual analog resistors or analog attenuators, using digital attenuation known from - for example - high-resolution mobile players, streaming players, audio soundcards.
The TDAI-1120 can be set as a pre-amp / RoomPerfect processor, using the analog stereo pre-out for an external power amp. Or using the pre-out for a subwoofer. Since the small TDAI-1120 only has one set of pre-out, it is not possible for both at the same time - either for a power amplifier or a subwoofer. The larger TDAI-3400 or former TDAI-2170 offer an additional digital output to connect an SDA-2400 power amp additionally.
Could the 1120s RoomPerfect handle a setup with a power amp and sub, if the sub is connected to speaker terminals with speakon cable (like the ones REL use) ?
@@simonekvall361 It is a somehow reversed setup, but technically the analog pre-out could be configured with a high pass filter (for mid and high), and the main speaker output with a low pass filter driving a passive subwoofer (for the bass). However, an active subwoofer would have its own amplifier. The speaker output of an amplifier (the one from the TDAI) should not be connected to another amplifier input (the one from the active subwoofer). In a TDAI amplifier, similar to conventional Class D amplifiers, both speaker outputs (usually named plus and minus) carry voltage. For some active subwoofers with high level inputs that is not recommended, and may damage the one or the other amplifier. In short, the best is to use the TDAI-1120 either with passive speakers + active subwoofers, or external power amp for the speakers + passive subwoofers, or upgrading to the larger TDAI-3400 with more power and more connection options.
Suppose you have an acoustic screen in a 21:9 ratio, 282 cm x 120 cm, and you choose LS-1000 speakers for left, center, and right. What should be the distance between these speakers and can they all fit behind the screen? The seating distance is 3 meters, single row. Processor is Lyngdorf-MP 40 with Arcam PA-720/240 amplifiers. Thanks in advance!
An acoustic screen of 1,20m would not be ideal for the recommended LS-1000, which is either four units high (2m) for a big room and at least three units high (1,50) in a smaller room. Downsize it further and you lose the inherent benefits of a line source speaker. With a 1,20m screen the speakers would not fully fit behind the transparent part of the screen, but partly play against the frame and protrude above/below the screen. Depending on the frame construction and thickness, a compromise could be to absorb the sound around the tweeters and midrange drivers - but ideally a line source speaker is either placed left and right of the screen, or fully behind the sound-perforated screen, like in big cinemas. Apart from that, 3m to the seats is a good distance for a line source speaker, and consequently the left and right speakers would then be placed between 2,50 and 3m apart, ideal within the Dolby specs of a 22-30 degree from the MLP.
Great video - thanks for posting! My room measures 3m by 6m, with a front LCR sound stage and side and back surrounds mounted on the walls. Based on your dos and don'ts, am I correct in thinking I should only move the mic and take calibration readings within the 1m x 4m inner area of the room, to adhere to the "keep at least 1m/3ft away from each speaker" guideline? In other words, my calibration "safe zone" is effectively 1m in from each wall, making the calibration area 1m x 4m?
Thank you, glad to hear! Yes, that “safe zone” thinking is right and leads to a smaller area in such a room size. But that’s still better than measuring too close to a speaker, because you would essentially measure the speaker. What you want to do is to measure the room. Also, the closer you get, the more you would measure the midrange drive or tweeter, and not how the speaker really sounds like where you sit. But remember you also move the mic and its stand up and down, and change the orientation of the mic, so you will have more variance than you think.
@@SteinLyngjust wanted to say I ran a calibration today and you tips and advice have made it a game changer. For the first time I’ve been blow away by RP. The front sound stage is immense and the bass is just right. Not boomy, but plenty of punch and dynamic range when needed. Everything just seems bigger and more expansive. Thank you again. This has been a huge help.
The idea is certainly worth considering, but not so soon because there are two options already: On both the TDAI-1120 and TDAI-3400 (or even the older TDAI-2170), the power amps can be disabled in the settings, and the TDAI can already be used as a pre-amp with RoomPerfect, or even as a RoomPerfect processor only, using the analog or digital pre-outs.
@@SteinLyng Ok, I didn't realise you could do that, although I wouldn't want to buy one and turn part of it off.. I think a lot of people would love a balanced preamp with your room correction, XLR in and out, using there own streaming devices and power amps. Still let's the audiophile tinker with different streamers and power amps whilst using your excellent room correction system, you could probably make a preamp to end all preamps... Basically please make a balanced preamp with your room correction 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😂👍🏻
How does the C + LSR-212 compare to the B, both in terms of sound quality and placement flexibility? Can the C be placed closer to the walls compared with the B?
Both model B and C offer sound at the highest level imaginable. The Model B is a full range dipole and thus requires a room where it can be placed free standing. Due to the size it will dominate the room, but you will forget that when you close your eyes and listen. In a suitable room a model B system is hard to beat. The new Model C has the same mid/treble section but offers a scalable solution, as the number of subs can be chosen to suit the room, and placed in the corners behind the speakers. Placement of Model C is less critical, it can be closer to the back wall, and will not dominate the room as much as the Model B. With the subs in the corners the bass will be precise, powerful and well coupled to the room.
@SteinLyng - Roland, thank you for a great and informative video. I'm considering a TDAI-1120 and have a couple questions. You mentioned that RP may not have a big difference in a room that is already decent, that might have some treatment. I'm thinking about the opposite end. I’m wondering if you’ve found a type of room that RP can’t deal with, that is just outside it’s parameters, that, even after, say, 15 measurements, the score won’t go above 90. Something that is oddly shaped, bright, with cathedral ceilings, perhaps.
RoomPerfect corrects the in room frequency response by adding corrective eq. In most rooms this will be a significant improvement to the sound, but the end result can depend on a number of factors. Your listening position, the room treatment and shape, capability of the speakers etc. Asymmetrical rooms are not a problem, it may even be an advantage. RoomPerfect will almost always reach above 90% room knowledge after 4-5 measurements; even the weirdest room will have characteristics that can be mapped by RP. If the room is particularly strange (!), you may choose to only make measurement in the main listening area. An example of this could be a L-shaped room. Regarding your mention of a cathedral with high ceilings, this will typically have a long reverberation time. RoomPerfect can not correct this, it can not transform a cathedral into a small living room.
Does it automatically set the frequenz of the sub and the volume? Do i have to open the crossover of the sub max and the volume at 12:00 o clock (half power)?
RoomPerfect does not overrule the set crossover frequency (meaning the low pass and high pass filters set by you in the TDAI or MP), because the crossover frequency depends on your subwoofer type and frequency range (or recommendation from the manufacturer), and on your speaker type and frequency range (or recommendation of the manufacturer). As you can imagine, that can be very different crossover frequencies from system to system. Regarding the subwoofer itself, you are right that you open the crossover or frequency range as wide as possible, because you’ll set it in the DSP of the TDAI or MP (or set the Subwwoofer to bypass). The volume level, especially in the area between subwoofer and speaker, will be aligned and optimized by RoomPerfect. But as you write, you have to give RoomPerfect a starting point, and that can be somewhere between half power and max power. Then RoomPerfect will be able to tone it down, if needed, but at no risk to overload the subwoofer.
After the measurement do i have to regulate the subwoofer Crossover back from Max to 80 Hz for example? I know that i can set the frequenz in the app, but i recognized that the App dont cut out the Frequenzen above. For example: in the App 80 Hz is set, but i go to the sub and Change the Crossover for example to 100 Hz it becomes louder. I dont understand that because i thought the App Cuts the frequencies off like a filter
@@arnonym823 No, the subwoofer setting (on the subwoofer) should not be changed after the calibration, otherwise the calibration would be partly wrong. So Max is the right setting. If the crossover is set at for example 80Hz in the app, this is never a “brickwall” filter which “cuts” the frequencies, but the frequencies become gradually weaker (less loud) above 80Hz. This can be set steeper or less steep, depending on the filter slope (higher numbers like 8th is a more strict filter than lower numbers like 2nd - you can also see that in the frequency graphs). This means you will still hear a change, and hear more bass, as you describe.
For their active bass managements, both technologies aim for less excessive bass, which is one of the main acoustical problems in every room, especially when using subwoofers. RoomPerfect takes a different approach: Instead of canceling out bass energy using additional loudspeakers or woofers, RoomPerfect does not emit the excessive bass energy in the first place, based on the speaker’s power response in the room. You can find out more about RoomPerfect here: lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/roomperfect/
Congratulations to Its owner. Beautiful installation and very comfortable. It looks fantastic and not like a movie theater. A fine work for a fantastic home. I’m sure that it is almost perfect or it is. Greetings, no words for such perfection!
I have Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 connected to WiFi but I cannot connect to Lyngdorf using my iPhone which is on the same network. It used to work but after updating my phone to iOS 17.5 I am getting ‘connection error’ in the Lyngdorf app. Reinstalling the app did not help. On other devices such as iPad and PC connection is just fine. Would you be able to advise what can be done apart from going with factory reset route? Thanks.
Hi, we have just tested it with an Apple iPhone and new 17.5 (vs. former iOS) and it both work fine. So it’s not easy to see what the cause is in your system. One setting to check in the iPhone menu: Settings > go down to the Lyngdorf Remote app > set Local Network and Mobile Data to green/on. Before you set that, switch the TDAI-1120 completely off (mains cable), do the phone settings, and then set the TDAI-1120 on again. Don’t worry, all your amp settings will be kept. It’s only to let the TDAI-1120 reconnect to the Wifi from the beginning, and let the Lyngdorf App find the TDAI-1120 from the beginning. Also, in the TDAI-1120 menu SETUP > General Setup, set the > Power Management to > Network Standby. This will improve finding the TDAI from your control devices. If there are still issues: In the TDAI-1120 menu SETUP > Manage Software, save a > Backup on an inserted USB memory. You can give it a useful name, for example MAY2024. Then you can safely do a Factory Reset. Then re-install the TDAI-1120 with your iPhone. Afterwards, you can bring back all your settings including RoomPerfect from the Backup: SETUP > Manage Software > Restore. We hope one or the other works out!
@@SteinLyng thank you for this fantastic reply. I forgot to mention in my initial post that I have also switched off my router for over an hour to clear its cache. This could also be potential reason for the issue I’ve experienced with connecting to TDAI-1120 on my iPhone. Anyways, switching off completely TDAI-1120 from power source for about 5min fixed the issue completely. Once again thank you for taking an effort in replying to my post.
So to play music you have to leave the doors open ? That’s not a very practical solution and even dangerous. Why not make furniture with integrated gilles or a folding solution that hides away?
No, this combination is of course not designed to listen with the doors open. 1, the Lyngdorf CS-1 were acoustically designed for the intended purpose in a normal living room, inside the furniture. 2, the Clic fabric doors were designed to be as acoustically neutral as possible (comparable to an acoustically transparent cinema screen). 3, when combined with the recommended Lyngdorf amplifier, RoomPerfect will acoustically calibrate the sound to any environment, including any remaining unwanted damping effects from thick drapes, carpets, fabrics. In other words, it IS like a “furniture with integrated grilles”.
I bought a TDAI-1120 for $2500 on the used market in Canada. I chose it in order to get away from 30kg amplifiers and to use the room correction. It works well with my Axiom M5HP speakers but I suspect that you could pair it with all but the most difficult speakers to drive.
The TDAI-1120 can drive almost any speaker, it is insensitive to difficult loads, and will sound the same even at the end of the volume scale. Don’t be afraid to turn up the volume into the read area if you need it really loud! Only in bigger rooms with particularly insensitive speakers you may want a more powerful amplifier, and for this we have the TDAI-3400.
Given that this amp was created some years ago would it not be worth bringing out a new amp taking advantage of current digital technology improvements and DAC improvements. If you were able to produce such a good amp in the past I would think a new version could be pretty amazing.
Thank you so much for your kind words and enthusiasm for our past amplifier! We are proud of what we achieved with it and are thrilled to see such appreciation from our community. While we can't comment on future product plans, please know that we are always exploring ways to innovate and improve. Stay tuned to our channels for the latest updates and announcements.
The 4K HDMI module look very very convenient...!!! What a wonderful idea...!!! In today's reality (apartments primarily, but houses too) the TV space is also the "listening room" and the living room...
0.48 - "One day when I grow up, I will have the sound system (Steinway Lyngdorf ) in my home". That is very interesting as the Steinway Lyngdorf brand came into being only in 2007. You were just growing up in 2007. Okay then.
RoomPerfect cannot change the directivity of the speaker’s sound beam as such, but it will even-out the sound energy and perceived sound balance do a degree, so it will sound better than without. Last not least, after RoomPerfect you can still add a custom voicing, for example lifting the high frequencies by 1 or 2 dB (adding a so-called high shelf filter).
Too bad it doesn't like low impedance speakers(i.e. Martin Logan) or subwoofers such Lyngdorf BW-20. At least when bridged it seems to work(per its manual) with 8 ohm speakers only.
The MXA-8400 is absolutely fine with low impedance speakers. Nominal 4 ohm speakers typically drop down around 3 ohm at certain low frequencies, and each MXA-8400 channel is absolutely stable in this area. The BW-20 for example is a typical 4 ohm load, perfectly matching (and developed with) using the SDA-2400 or MXA-8400 at 400 watt, which is plenty. In rare speaker cases where double the voltage and double the watts is required, two channels can be bridged. Technically, that leads to doubling the required load, to provide enough current from the mains. Anyway it’s still 8 ohm nominal according to IEC, so no problem if that drops typically towards 6 ohm.
Very cool to hear some technical explanations about the product. I'm wondering if the Powerperfect technology is similar to the the technology in my TDAI-2170, which is also supposed to be quite immune to noise in the power grid?
The power decoupling and filtering both ways is very similar in the TDAI-2170, and it is also an efficient switch-mode power supply. The other mentioned technologies were developed for the new MXA-8400.
