Good presentation, I would hope that every EV basher should see this information. The people that know less of EV's shout the hardest that EV's are catasthrofal for the enviroment. I tell you they do not understand at all that Fossile fuels are ending someday; then you should prepared that there are good alternatives nowadays already. My model S that I bought in 2013 is still ok. I drove 100.000 miles and made some mistakes in the beginning because I did not know better in those early days. Now my car stays always at 50% ,and when I plan a trip I charge up to the level I expect to need. ( 60 or 70 %) . It warms up the battery pack a little, the car warms up from the energy going into the car and my ride goes smoother because of better regeneration power saving brakes and tires (and nervs !). In really cold conditions in winter my car stays in the garage and I use my Mercedes diesel which I bought a year earlier. "Tessa" looks like a new car and after my upgrade of a new display and video, I have a completely up to date P85, even better than in the early days.
This video made me change my mind on buying an ev. So dam complicated. If the manufacturer is giving me a warranty of 8 years or 200000km why on earth am I gonna become a scientist and make my life miserable.
The important thing is miles you get before reaching 90%. So you should multiply the % usage per cycle times the number of cycles. 85-25% will give you 1200 full charge equivalents x 300 miles= 360k miles. 100% gives 750 cycles in all cases good for 225 k miles. 75-25 gives 1500 cycles good for 450 k miles. So the manufacturer recommendation of 85-25% giving 360 k miles is great. If our target is changed to 15% battery degradation then the above ranges can be doubled on average. Thanks for the data, but it needs to be re-interpreted as above.
The important thing is miles you get before reaching 90%. So you should multiply the % usage per cycle times the number of cycles. 85-25% will give you 1200 full charge equivalents x 300 miles= 360k miles. 100% gives 750 cycles in all cases good for 225 k miles. 75-25 gives 1500 cycles good for 450 k miles. So the manufacturer recommendation of 85-25% giving 360 k miles is great. If our target is changed to 15% battery degradation then the above ranges can be doubled on average. Thanks for the data, but it needs to be re-interpreted as above.
Very interesting video. I was told years ago to recharge the batteries (Lithium) in my golf cart and electric drills, etc............ as soon as I had finished using them and not wait to start recharging. So far my batteries have stayed intact and are working well. When we buy an electric car we will need to manage its batteries - why doesn't the software in the charging systems ask you which curve on the chart you want to follow & then implement the users choice? Seems to be a product opportunity?
Hey man i don't no who are you. You are inxhinjering.But for me important in hv battery is cooling .You can charge and 100 % no problem for the hv battery problem is to cooling every time this battery. I have nissan altima hybrid and i modified cooling fan to work every time and this car have 600.000 miles in the same factory hv battery and engine. Thank you.
Good information here about charging your EV to fit the typical use for extending the battery life. My model S is almost 9 years old now. My commute is around 30 miles or so a day. I plug in whenever I park in the garage and have the charge set to 60%, the normal charge left at the end of my day is a little over 40%. The battery is still well over 90% capacity after almost 9 years. If I plan on a longer drive I up the charge for the next day or if an unexpected long drive is needed I stop by the local Supercharger for a few minutes. No range anxiety at all. The car is ready to go each day and no gas station stops.
I think it's important not to become a slave to a charging regiment. The 2 biggest criteria are; a) try never run the battery to zero; & b) don't overcharge. The rest is very much horses for cources if you consider the scenario below. Say your battery can deliver 300 miles of range and you do 300 miles p.m. You could charge from 0 to 100 % once a month, or just over 4 times if you charged from 25 - 50%. If over time you don't get much more than 4x more cycles out of your battery than the 0 - 100 scenario, you haven't gained anything other than inconvenience. If you created a chart called Total Kwhr charged over total time, the scenarios wouldn't be extremely dissimilar (assuming no complete discharges and say no 100%/over charging scenarios).
Unfortunately this is all hogwash, because you have overlooked that real world EVs do not and cannot charge this way, because of regenerative braking. Every time you stop, you charge the battery, every time you accelerate, you discharge it. In normal driving you will switch between charging and discharging a hundred times every time you drive. Pick a charge level that allows you to use the "middle" of the battery, and then charge as often as you can. Funny, just like manufacturers recommend.
Must remeber the manufacture has a buffer if range built in which coukd be as much as 10 percent . So if you charge to 90 percent your realiy at 80 percent. There are just to many factors to get a true analysis . Its very simple . A batteries enemy is heat . The less of that is better . As far as charging a ev manages the charge based on heat throught the totality of the charge . It may seem like the lower the amperage at charge which creates the longest period to attain that state of charge . Kind of what we do with trickle chargers to maintain a batteries viltage that maybe sitting for awhile . Now that maybe not practical for most as with the best outcome in this video . I think we miss so many options like charge time and the amperage we charge at . Weather is a factor . Now manufactures do want to have the battery to last because of the warranty which many are a 100,000 miles which many are done with a vehicle by then . Most dont care as they are covered . Not ice vehicles have that for their powertrains and itsca manufatuer warranty and not a third party . So looking at that the 80 / twenty is quite accetable . I would say 90/30 knowing you have that unseen buffer . You woukd like to charge at times when it is cooler in the location you charge and you dint want to charge after just getting done with driving . Let the electrons rest and cool off . The secret to these battey success is the energy management and cooling system . As we see with things like conputor centers they need to be kept cool because they produce heat . Its very simple when you come up witt a charging plan think about heat an minimizing it within your lifestyle
Interesting Video. So I think we can all agree that charging a battery to a 100% (all the time) is a "fools errand". For the occasional long trip from the start is okay. Holding battery to a max of 80 / 75 would be good practice. I think what we are seeing here in this chart that is more important is the Depth of Discharge. The best case scenario is only drawing the battery down 10% then recharging. I would think that 80% to 70% would yield similar results. The issue revolves around the recharging. As the battery fills the charging current has to ramp up to force more power in the battery to get it closer to 100% and more power means more heat and as these batteries are a bunch of chemicals this heat damages the individual chemical molecules thus reducing overall capacity over time. So keeping the battery temp down will help to extend the batteries life. Only charging up 10% each time will reduce the amount of time the battery has to generate and hold heat. I have an Ionic 5N and yes it is a Joy to Drive. As a first time owner I have done years of research before purchasing. I have a 24 mile round trip (Home-Work-Home) and I recharge every night using level 1 charging "115VAC @ 15Amps" (i am the States) to regain what I used that day. Level 1 basically being a "trickle charge". I use and OBDII and Car Scanner to monitor my SoC and Temps and this keeps everything nice and cozy. Long trips I charge on level 1 to 100% then use DC Fast Charging to 80% the least number of times to get to my destination. While always engaging the battery conditioning after a DC Fast Charge to bring the battery temps back down. Usually 15 to 20 mins after leaving the charger. Based on your presentation, only using 10% and recharging everyday would yield a theoretical battery life of just over 23 years (8500 / 365). With a final toll of only 10% loss of full SoC. As Tesla owners have the most documentation on battery longevity some have reported only seeing 5 - 8% degradation after 10-15 years of ownership. (These are people who know the technology they are using) I have had many an interesting and enlightening conversation with new EV owners at Fast Charging Stations. Seriously folks Read your owners manual and do more research. I feel A LOT of EV owners didn't know how to check engine oil in their ICE vehicles.
Wondering what’s more important the actual upper figure the batteries is charged to or the fact that there’s a lower level of discharge. I charge my battery to about 90% using AC power and generally charge it not too much past 60% so there’s working in a 30% band.
This is beyond logical and everybody posting here seems clueless. Do you think Tesla battery management system lets you charge to the levels shown in this video? NO!!!!!!! Google is your friend - LOL. Tesla's full charge is probably around 95% of the battery max capacity. Silly video....
If you only drive short distances then one charge would last at least a week... then 1000 charges would take more than 19 years!!! Something is not right here!
Maybe one day this will be me. I do about 35-40 miles a day. Charge 80 to 20% and it works for me. Don't really expect to keep this 2 yr old car for more than 3 or 4 years. At least not as my primary. The thing is if you aren't using but 10 to 50% of your range, why does it matter if it depreciates 20 to 30%.
One niggle. While it’s a universally accepted concept to minimize the SoC at <60-70% to preserve battery capacity over the life of the battery, I’ve also read that by leaving your battery plugged-in while the car is not is use allows the car to pull electricity from the outside source for maintenance activities (battery conditioning, cabin conditioning, etc.). Over time, these idle period discharge cycles can have a negative impact on lifetime battery capacity.
Thanks for your very quick response this morning Mark! Just had a thought about extra large cups fitting under the group head-you can remove the drip tray to fit them under on an easier angle- the wheel lock knob does get in the way still but it does give a little extra space! Another great video again thank you Dale, Traralgon
One way to look at it is how many Mega Watt Hours the battery will deliver before it reaches 90% of original capacity in each one of the tests. I would assume the results would be different if one test cycled is performed per day versus the tests being ran back-to back around the clock since calendar aging would have more of an effect in the former. Below are what I come up with for mega watt hours delivered based on a 2022 Model 3 LR, with a usable 80KWh battery. On this battery, 1% of SOC = 800 watt-hours, when new. The Average watt-hour value of 1% SOC between 100% and 90% of the original battery capacity is 760 wtt-hours. Amount of mega watt hours delivered when only recharging within the cycle range stated below at 20 degrees C until battery reaches 90% of original capacity: 100% to 25%, 1000 cycles = 57 MHW 100% to 40%, 1250 cycles = 57 MHW 85% to 25%, 2000 cycles = 91.2 MHW 100% to 50%, 1370 cycles = 52 MHW 75% to 25%, 2900 cycles = 110.2 MHW 75% to 45%, 5125 cycles= 116.85 MHW 75% to 65%, 8750 cycles= 66.5 MHW
Which is better… Charge on level 2 50%-90%, drive down to 50%, park overnight, repeat next day OR Charge 50%-70%, drive to 50%, level 3 fast charge back to 70%, continue to drive again to 50%, park and repeat next day?
are the DST normalized for use? LIke 100-25% is 75% of the battery.. is that .75 cycles or 1 cycle.... similarly 100-40 is 60% of the batter.. is that .6 cycles or 1 cycle...
These curves in the test all have different charge depth. So you need to also conpare to how much charge you add per cycle. 50% charge depth (75-25%) will have 5 times more charge added so it needs to be compared to 1/5 of the number of cycles for the same anount of work during it’s life then 75-65% cycling.
On average 750km per week. Charging at home. No issues with Tesla Model 3 2024. Also a awesome car to drive and great comfort. Better than any other car I've been in.
I have a question not a comment. What kind of effect your battery will have if you only charge 50 percentage max and let it drop to 10 percentage. This will help most of retired people. Thanks
Good idea is not tell how much percentage of battery one should charge. Good idea is to educate people like you are doing impact of charging a battery vs battery life.
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I think the comments by @robertkooiman27 (see below) make a lot of sense. Based on his analysis, is seems that the main thing to worry about is not to exceed 75% maximum state of charge, regardless of whether you discharge to 25% or 45%. So I have configured my ID4 to stop charging at 70%, and I start charging when it gets down to about 30%. Other videos recommend avoiding fast charging, so I always charge at home with a 120 volt outlet. I have had my car about 18 months, and so far it still has pretty much all of its battery capacity.
All of this info only applies to NCM/NCA batteries. On a video which main purpose is talking about battery life, how can you neglect to talk about chemistries like LFP which are a completely different ballgame?
Don't you need to calculate the distance per discharge, and compare according to total distance traveled in the battery's life? More cycles at 10% discharge per cycle (75-65) is gonna be similar total distance traveled to three times fewer cycles at 30% (75-45) discharge per cycle...
