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I never understood why was Edgeworth free after the trial. Do they need to fill some forms in order to let him go so that it doesn't look like he ran away?
I’ve always wondered why he was kept in detention after the trail, too. I thought other characters would go free when the trail ended. Maybe it is paperwork stuff? 😮
As bad as the anime is, I feel like it adding some scenes of Manfred actually being kind to young Edgeworth was really sweet. Like, yeah, he was strict and took him in as revenge, ultimately, but I feel like Manfred is far from the worst Dad in Ace Attorney. Super cute comic! I felt bad for Edgeworth, but that's the point, right? :o
Yes! I love the flashback episodes so much 😭💕💕 Seeing Manfred be a dad in the canon really gave his character more depth than just an evil villian. Maybe he isn't the worst dad in AA, but he really is up there tho-- No matter how well he treated them during their childhood, he was still the reason Miles suffered so much in the first place (then Franziska when she found out the truth). Plus the scene where he threw away Miles' Signal Samurai keychain saying that he doesn't need it 😢 We love a nuanced character 🙏 And thank you for enjoying the video and leaving a comment! 💖 It's hard not to feel bad for Miles tbh-- They piled so much trauma onto him and for what 😭🏃♀️🏃♀️
@@sinnabum45 Yeah, he sucks haha I love Manfred, but I love him because he's an interesting villain. He feels like someone who could've been a good guy if we'd ever seen his past, but he just got on this path and I feel that's fun. But I mean, at least he's no Blaise Debeste haha (Whom I also find funny as hell lol)
@@vicwunder3062 Yeah, AAI2 gave us a number of really bad parents. And Blaise is definitely much worse than Von Karma. I am not sure who is worse, Blaise or Gustavia, but they are both so terrible as fathers and as humans that it's unbelievable
No matter what hatred Edgeworth felt during the trial finally knowing who his father’s killer was, no doubt about it that wrecked him afterwards. Von karma was strict, but he believed Von karma wanted the best for him this man was his mentor and the only other father he knew, he can’t erase all the memories of his childhood, hell there’s also the thought of his sister he must have been wondering how will she take it once she learns the truth
He didn’t just lose his second father, he also found out the said supposed father wanted him dead the entire time. That would utterly destroy pretty much anyone.
i have a theory that after many years spending time with miles, manfred started to see him as his son and successor. he wanted miles to achieve a perfect record nd bring fame to von karma name as his successor even more than his daughter but it all changed after phoenix wright came into picture. when miles lost von karma dream of his successor having a perfect record shattered and he felt that years he spend training and giving resources to an edgeworth had gone to waste and his hate for name edgeworth rekindled. he felt the bullet in his soldier was not enough that miles also broke his dream of his successor having perfect record. he wanted to end the edgeworth bloodline cause after his defeat miles became an edgeworth instead of successor of von karma
Ooh!! I like this theory a lot! 👀✨ That would explain why Manfred tried so hard to actually make Miles a perfect prosecutor. He could’ve just taken care of Miles and raised him like a normal kid, but chose to make him great, too. Maybe it’s just how Manfred is, but why not make Franziska his successor? She is a genius, too, and became a prosecutor at the age of 13. (Meta explanation is that she didn’t exist yet in the making of the first game 😅) So Manfred actually taking Miles under his wing to boost the von Karma name makes a lot of sense. Also, I assume Manfred adopting his rival’s kid also helped boost his reputation. That is so messed up 😭😭
@@sinnabum45 at the end of justice for all franziska herself said she is not a genius like her father but she had to be one and is why she tried so hard to become a prosecutor.
She herself thinks she isn’t a genius, but her becoming a prosecutor at 13 isn’t something anyone can just do. Another example of Manfred putting unrealistic standards onto them cuz Franziska thinks that she’s not a genius when she has already achieved something so great. She thinks she has to have a 40 year long career without ever losing like her father, not knowing that Manfred was cheating the whole time.
@@sinnabum45 I don't think that Manfred was thinking of making Miles a perfect prosecutor as something unnormal. For Manfred who was taking pride in being undefeated prosecutor there was nothing wrong that Miles is trying to be the same. Maybe a little FU to Gregory, but not ill intent on itself. And I like theory that the reason for Case 4 is not the lost cases of Edgeworth but the statute of limitations on DL-6. Manfred starts to think about this case, he is confronted with "unnecessary feelings" and decides to get rid of the cause, the son of Gregory.
@@sinnabum45 And I am not agreeing with you about Franziska. Yeah, she has low self-esteem and ignores how she is already great. I agree that it came from how she was raised. But I am not sure that Manfred was putting these standards onto her. Remember 3-5? The first thing the Canadian Judge asked is she related to the legendary prosecutor Manfred Von Karma? I think she gets and have gotten this a lot, plus underestimation because of age and gender. This enough to create self-esteem issues without making Manfred as a deliberately toxic father.
I wonder what would happen if he did- like would Manfred even talk to him or would Manfred use that opportunity to say something horrible to Miles? (IMO, anything Manfred says at this point would probably hurt Miles and/or Franziska 😭)
@@sinnabum45 maybe he will ask him why did tries to framed him manfred tell him that he was weak like his father, becoming less ideal man that manfred tries to made him from his childhood Due to power samurai case, he help nick before, manfred was disappointment at that
I feel like we as a fandom tend to forget that Manfred took Miles in when he had no one, and he gave him a house and a family (as dysfunctional as it might have been). Sure, he's an asshole and was certainly extremely strict with his children for them to turn out the way they did, but he still was their father, and he took care of them. I feel like the anime portrayed Manfred perfectly, especially in the flashback episodes where we see Miles' childhood with the Von Karmas. I love how he briefly mentions Gregory once just to tell Miles his father was a good attorney.
Yeah, at least from what the games and anime (even the live action movie), Miles really respected and is grateful to Manfred. Of course, Manfred planned for it to be this way so he wouldn’t be suspicious. Him bringing Gregory up to Miles makes the betrayal so much more sad since it came off like he does that often. He really manipulated the heck out of everyone and his kids. In hindsight, he was a horrible, abusive person. But at the time, he was their strict and loving father 😭😭😭
Honestly I don't even think that was apart of his plan. We gotta remember that when, Phoenix asked him why he took in edgeworth in the first place, he never gives an answer. I honestly feel like on some level, Manfred felt a smidgen of guilt for what he had done which the anime even addressed but he eventually fed himself the delusion that the reason he took him in was because he wanted to see where, Edgeworth would go from here.
I think it’s very possible that Manfred might have felt some kind of guilt for what he did. It could be that he didn’t have a whole master plan from day one, but either way, he still manipulated everyone to make sure no one suspected him. Both Manfred feeing guilt and also wanting to see what Miles would do from then on could be true at the same time. Like maybe some twisted thought of “I shouldn’t have done what I did, but now that we’re here, I want to observe the destruction I’ve created”. As for Manfred not answering Phoenix, it could be the fact that Manfred thinks he doesn’t owe him an explanation or maybe doesn’t want to incriminate himself? Maybe it was guilt, or maybe it’s all of the above. All of the possibilities are really interesting! ✨👀
It's very possible that Manfred felt guilty, but rather because of Miles than Gregory: he never regretted shooting him, but making Miles an orphan when he just so happened to be caught in the middle of his revenge might have been the reason of his guilt.
I could definitely see that! 👀 Maybe he didn’t regret shooting Gregory, but seeing Miles suffering because of it probably made Manfred feel some kind of guilt. Which makes me think why does he care now when it’s too late? He definitely saw Miles in the elevator and just disregarded him. He was of sane mind at the time since he had enough control to see and pick up the gun, see Gregory, and then decide to shoot him. Then made sure to leave no evidence. If Manfred was not sane of mind, then he couldn’t have done all that without leaving behind evidence. Maybe he just didn’t care until he saw for himself how much it affected Miles? 🤔
Bro I felt so bad for Edgeworth at the end of Turnabout Goodbyes. That "it was you!" and his angsty sprite during Von Karma's breakdown show how hurt and betrayed he felt.
That, too!! One moment, this man is someone Miles respected and was raised by. Then the next moment, he’s confessing about everything he did and felt- hatred for Miles and Gregory. That must’ve been 1.) scary af and 2.) heartbreaking. I really wonder what was going through Manfred’s head the entire 15 years…
Kind of off topic but I have this layered theory that the Edgeworths and von Karmas are distant relatives (modern day descendants of the van Zieks family from TGAA), which was why Manfred was able to take Miles in. I've wondered why it wasn't a closer relative, so I HC that Gregory came from a dysfunctional family, which is why he became an attorney and was so determined to be a good father. Manfred only became aware of this after his death. I believe that the reason von Karma says "none of your business" when asked why is because he hates to admit that he adopted the boy out of pity.
That’s a really interesting theory! It also seemed strange to me that Miles went to Manfred instead of any other family members, so I also agree that Gregory is cut off from his family for whatever reasons. Even for Miles’ mom’s side of the family- maybe they ran away and eloped? 👀 Then that makes me wonder if Manfred knew they could be related 👁️👁️
TGAA2 mentions that one of Genshin Asogi’s disciples changed his surname in honour of the sword Karuma, so it’s more likely that the von Karmas are descendants of that disciple (since the von Karmas are simply called “Karuma” in the original Japanese games). However, I suppose we can’t discount the possibility that the Edgeworths and the von Karmas might have some relation to the van Zieks, however distant that may be.
That’s… Ouch. Personally, I don’t buy the whole “Von Karma was horrifically abusive” trope that gets thrown around a lot in fandom space. Yes, he was controlling, but he’s not pure evil (in regard to parenting). He obviously never held a candle to Gregory in the parent department, but surely he couldn’t have been the worst if Miles held that much respect towards him (regardless of how much that respect was built on lies).
Yeah I think he was probably abusive but exclusively in more subtle ways like being manipulative or teaching them harmful beliefs or approaches to things like feelings. He doesn’t strike me as the type to have hit or shouted just because he was angry. Plus Edgeworth to me seems were socially and mentally beaten down but he still comes across as someone who would easily condemn such black and white behaviour like more well known ideas of abuse
@@mint7442 Agreed! I also don't HC Manfred to be very physical with his kids. But yeah, not being physically abusive doesn't mean that he wasn't emotionally and mentally abusive. It's common for people (irl, too) to excuse child abuse if it's not "bad enough". Also the fact that abusers aren't always abusive 100% of the time or even trying to be abusive, that's how a lot of people, especially children, get stuck with them. Imo, that explains why Miles and Franziska respected Manfred so much. They see his unrealistic, harsh standards as him wanting them to succeed. Manfred also putting a load of pressure onto them from a very young age by saying that the "von Karma name" is the only important thing that they need to uphold. Personally, I think the abuse was bad since Miles and Franziska's first thought to "losing" was to take their own lives/ give up on being a prosecutor. (Franziska said that if a prosecutor loses, they should crawl into a hole and die at the end of the Engarde case)
I feel like he was emocionally/psycologically abusive, but maybe it was just because of generaltional trauma caused by traditions. If I learned something from a decade of therapy, is that perfecionism is often connected to self-sabotage and self-loathing... and that my grandma is too old to know that she is a biggot who probably never knew she emocionally abused us (luckly not to *THAT* extend, but we are broken enough with everything that has happen)... ANYWAYS, the fact that he probably knew about the nightmares heavily imply that he probably did some things to convince him that he killed his own father.He was sure that he was going to confess, after all. But I kind of prefer thinking of Von Karma as a cartoon villain (with RT's interpretation) more than an actual real life abuser. It's fun to not take him seriously, even though I do like the angst because it makes me cry.
Yes, that could be a possibility that Manfred suffered with generational trauma. Even so, no matter the reason, abuse is still abuse. Miles and Franziska had nothing to do with what could’ve happened to Manfred in his upbringing, so it’s still unfair to them. I’m sorry to hear that you have been through that. I hope you’re healing now ❤️ It’s very possible to understand why people do things and also hold them accountable for what they did. A lot of the times, it could help with healing, too. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to think of Manfred as a cartoon villain! Do whatever makes you happy and have fun 🙌 That’s the fun part of being in fandoms imo! 😆✨
I like that there are so many different viewpoints of Manfred, and yours is very nuanced. It's not exactly mine, but I still love to see something where every bad trait ever isn't piled on him! But yeah, of course Miles would have some feelings to unpack about the man who LITERALLY was the only person willing to take him in. It's always weird for me when I'm playing the games and everyone's like, "yo we figured out who murdered your dad, so you're completely healed now psychologically, right????" (Also, good for Miles buying himself something he likes at the end there.)
It's understandable when people make Manfred physically abusive as well since he did assault strangers (Maya, a child, and Phoenix) out of no where-- But I also like more nuanced HCs! It's always interesting to see how everyone interprets characters 😆 And same- It doesn't make sense to me that Miles was just okay after. I personally HC that maybe he was in shock at the end. He didn't fully process what happened since it happened so quickly and it shattered everything he knew about his life (AGAIN 😭😭). That's why he seemed so "unguarded" as Phoenix put it. Miles copying Gumshoe and Lotta is like he doesn't know who he is anymore, so he tried to be what others wanted him to be. Or he just wanted some kind of identity. Of course, this calm moment didn't last long as Miles gradually got worse mentally and ended up leaving his s*icide note+ leaving for a year. He deserves it! It's his only emotional support 🥺
@@sinnabum45 one thing to note is that franziska's "hurt" animation looks as if she's flinching out of fear, while other "hurt" animations in the series tend to have the characters simply be shocked or angry, that franziska animation stands out to me.
That’s a good observation! 👀 I could definitely see why a lot of people HC that Franziska suffered with physical abuse from Manfred. It is still possible that Manfred wasn’t physical, but still abusive emotionally/mentally. Emotional abuse can make someone feel fear as well (ex: threats, harsh insults, yelling, etc.). It really comes down to personal preference what people want to HC for this since they’re all plausible! (Poor Franziska and Miles tho- 😭😭😭)
How DARE you use your vast quanity of skills and talents for evil!?! 😠 Keep this up and you'll be uninvited to my Gay Lawyer themed birthday party! 😤 (/JK 😜 I love your art. 💖 Keep up the good work despite it ripping my heart out as I fall over crying in the process. 😭)
Same! Sinna just always has to break our hearts with their beautiful talent 💗💔T^T But anyways, when is the Gay Lawyer themed birthday gonna be? Can i be invited? XD
You are absolutely merciless lately huh? I always imagined a part of Miles would have been more 'content' with getting declared guilty over his mentor and adoptive father figure turning out to be the monster who ruined his life.
Ironically enough, it's because of that "second father", he got into that position. He had his pride and ego shattered by Gregory and couldn't take it at all. That's why, he killed Gregory, and then adopted and moulded Edgeworth into his own puppet
@@EnderGrad Yeah, it's tragic. The one person who made him come out on top was in fact just manipulating and using him for his own means all along. God damn it pre-/post-AA1 Miles deserves better people.
@@pgreta1752 I agree with both of you! Manfred is horrible for what he did to Miles and Gregory (and literally everyone else affected by the DL-6). I think part of Miles would be relieved that Manfred was arrested because that meant that the mystery of DL-6 has been solved and his dad was brought justice. Another part would be in shock since no one even knew that Manfred was anywhere near related to DL-6. This man who took him in and raised him for 15 years turned out to be the reason why Miles "needed" him in the first place. Plus, finding out that the man he respected so much did something so heinous for the most pathetic reason. It's so messed up for Miles AND Franziska. They really do deserve better people in their lives 😢
I can't stop thinking about an idea I once had. After a trial Wright and Trucy (who probably was his co-counsel) come out of the courtroom. In the corridor they meet Edgeworth. They exchange greetings, Franziska storms out of the courtroom saying "I'll beat you next time Mr. Phoenix Wright!". Wright and Trucy head towards the elevator, and Edgeworth takes the stairs. Near the elevator stands a ballif. Suddenly Edgeworth gets a notification on his phone "Warning! Earthquakes soon!". He stops for a minute, and logic clicks. A defence attorney with his child in the elevator, with a ballif, during an earthquake, while an angry von Karma is in the building. He runs back up, grabs Wright by the shoulder and drags him down the stairs (don't worry, Trucy is right behind them). Edgeworth won't let the sittuarion play out twice. One day I'll ilustrate it. One day.
Franziska hasn't shown up since Spirit of Justice, but at least the Investigations Collection will let us see Franziska and Gumshoe for some good minutes until Shu Takumi decides to include them in an Ace Attorney game that is not a remake.
Miles like dragged her to the hospital. He wasn't having any of it. He cares so much for Franziska, even if it took him a year to realize who he was and what he was about.
