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Great episode. This was the podcast episode I was hoping for following the rules updates. No one else nailed it this well. Lots of info explained clearly, concise commentary on the implications for play, with a dose of optimism and excitement instead of angst. This is increasingly my favorite Legion podcast even though I’m more casual than competitive
1:30:00 bro totally skips over that Grievous and Dooku got massive buffs. Grievous is a beast now that he has immune: pierce and his updated command card and Dooku has gained surge to block, making him more viable in melee. Also both of them got a massive points decrease
I appreciate the positivity. Personally, this update fixed a lot of my issues with the game and my local group is excited about the new edition. While we are getting a lot of resculpts next year, we are getting several new units and I'm really looking forward to the continued release of revised cards, like Mandos.
For the first time in a long time, maybe ever, I can't finish a NS episode. The tone is super negative, explicitly dismissive of opinions contrary to the hosts, and the level confidence in proclamations made with no or very little table time seems unwarranted. A big enough deal for me as a long-time fan of the show that I came here from my normal podcast source to leave a comment in hopes it can be seen as feedback.
This is an issue I tend to have with a lot of NS content. Remember when they complained about Din’s rifle breaking the game? Or how inquisitors would be soooo broken?… I remember. It just makes me sad that this is the most popular legion podcast which means everyone ends up echoing their opinions online
Anything that encourages engagement I’m up for. Watching the holding pattern game that Mike played against Oskar in Worlds was hard work. It’s not an entertaining game at that point. The competitive game really is not a great spectacle. For home games the new rules look a blast. I hope the competitive peeps find what they need from the game without turning it into a snore fest again.
The only thing i dont like for casual game is the rule of ending the game as soon as one player has 12 points. There are games ending after 3 turns, thats not nice.
I don't think inspire works as you stated. It says up to x tokens. Not x for each unit. What are the free standbys? . Bad Batch cannot benefit from backup due to We're not Regs. 12:25 You can't take a heavy weapon more than once on the same unit. Also I failed to find Gungans, Where is it? Page 2 didn't work for me Dark Troopers may get the benefit from guardian now as Unconcerned line about not getting guardian seems to be removed.
Would love to see some breakdowns and interactions! I'd say most of all I want to see how the revamped LAAT works out for Republic with it's improved guns and the new transport rule.
I'm going to double down on this: we can like and dislike the rules all we want, but what we're not talking about is the lack of communication from AMG. I honestly feel that everyone should be upset about how this was handled. Zero posts about upcoming changes, lack of supplies when a second edition is released and alienating new players has been the biggest issue here. As consumers we expect to be treated better than how they handled all of this. This should not have been a print and play info dump. I get that they have been slumped with a good chunk of debt but thet should be managing their releases better. They should have spent the next year teasing a new edition, getting supplies ready, communicating with us about the changes and being more excited about star wars. All this being said, new players please play and give feedback about your experiences navigating this release. Experienced players, keep playing the game and hammer out what you like and dislike. AMG, be better at communicating with the community.
Moving the game from cagey engagements to full-board using larger scale armies is quite the change. That being said it is something I always wanted out of this game - 800 point hard cover Legion felt too slow and boring to me. However, the alternating activations, command cards, and army composition requirements core bones of the game was what kept me wanting to play it. I realize how invested both of you are in this game and the level you play at is beyond anything I'd even want to try. That being said it would be nice for some of the largest voices in this community to not produce such aggressively negative content with so few reps on the new system.
Seriously. One of the worst things about the Notorious scoundrels podcast for me is the constant negativity, oftentimes before they have had much practice with the new thing also.
The math head in me gets sad when the average expected cover saves are treated as reality - yes, you're supposed to get 1/6 successes with light cover and 1/3 successes with heavy cover, but if you determine the likelihood of getting at least one light cover save on six dice, you have a 66.5% chance of getting 1 block . . . and a 91% chance of getting 1 block with heavy cover. Those aren't bad odds, but 10-35% of the time, you're going to bomb out and get nothing.
The arogance on this cast ist getting higher and higher it seems they figured all the new game things out and kyle didnt even played one game makes me sad that since jay left Scoundrels it seems to me that this cast ist 80 % complains and not discussion about the actual Game and how to Play it anymore
Respect to AMG for at least learning the lesson from FFG that making a new edition isn't an opportunity to squeeze your dying game's fanbase for extra cash to get some paper and cardboard. They may have overlearned that lesson to some degree, not even being willing to call it an edition change, but at least they learned the lesson.
Hi I'm a new player who's a big fan of your content and list builder. Could you please please please keep the option to access the current edition of your list builder? My friends and I only intend to jump to the new edition when it's officially released - when official product for it becomes available in Q3 2025.
I think amg sculpting has definitely been inconsistent, and that the new units will look different than the old ones. Clone commandos have absolutely tiny hands, for example.
This resonates with me... I think I will just go play some Bolt Action, which I hope wont get screwed the same by the new edition it got/is getting :) But hey, Legion probably still is fun, I just dont feel I can plan in the game like in chess anymore..
Cant the whole everything being shot issue just be solved by a different approach to terrain density and type? more solid LOS blocking solves this easily surely?
Terrain is only one factor. In reality the cover hasnt changed to much. The bigger "problems" lay in the mission design. Every mission is played with a short distance between the players, so range 3 and 2 weapons will be in range immidiatly. Combine this with the fact that the whole game is played on the centerline of the board. All together creates a meatgrinder with a lot of shooting, less movement and strategic actions. Its more like, move into range and shoot for the rest of the game. So terrain is not the optimal way to fix it, because its not the cause. But besides that, more terrain is definitly better. Table looks much better and is more interesting to play on. But in my opinon most players used way to less terrain for the game even before the update. My favorit games so far i played on the city map of a good friend. Incredible terrain with a lot of LOS-blocking buildings and gameplay on different "layers" of the map (highest building is around 20 inches i think). He even has a functional tank lift to bring your vehicles on another hight :D More people need good tables!
A few of the new Legion rules they imported over from MCP like the 5 dice priority roll and the being able to touch the model anywhere on the movement tool. I left Legion for MCP and this update won't be changing that I see 😂
I posted this comment on Kyle’s article on the blog, but it apparently got moderated away. Anyways, couldn’t we all as players just collectively decide not to play this version?
New subscriber. :) For the POI tokens, I'm 100% taking the comment in the rules book that says that I can substitute a mini on a 2" base for a POI token (pg 20 under the Types of Objective Tokens -> POI Tokens). Scenic/thematic objectives here I come, lol. I'm also 100% manufacturing my own half range tool. Overall, I'm cautiously optimistic about the new game, and am trying to find time to play a game against myself to try and figure out the new rules.
They made the rules more similar to MCP, which is sad, but since they don't understand large scale war games vs skirmish games, this is the way it will be. I mean they basically killed the skirmish format they were making for legion. They will make more changes moving forward after a big tournament, and a lot of players will stop playing. Legion is going the way of xwing and armada, and it was the plan from the beginning.
There are some changes that I like, but also I feel like AMG took most things that kept me interested in the game at all. Giving access to some kind of token sharing to every faction made me cringe a little bit as it took the whole personality og GAR as a faction. Also, I don't like the new cover rules. I prefer cover to be some kind of flat values or bonuses instead of a dice roll. Even if mathematically current cover is better, the fact that you have to roll can make somebody extremely lucky/unlucky. Also, changing AI so it literally doesn't matter anymore is negative for me. For positives, I really like that issuing orders doesn't require range anymore and I like the deflect change. As for the rest, I need more games to decide whether I like it or not.
21:00 I know mike said that was just preliminary analysis but I strongly disagree. I think this was more of a old legion objective system. Old legion felt like you were fighting for the middle of the board. New legion feels like it is fighting more on a 6x3 instead of games ending up on a 3x3 in the middle.
It takes you guys 1:50 minutes to repeat all of the negative comments posted to Facebook for the past week with 3 games of experience between the 2 of you. There’s nothing new or insightful here, other than epic levels of salt because things have changed. This is why I don’t pay attention to you anymore.
Yesterday, I took (6) 2" Notched Premium Bases (they are very close in size, 1/32" difference) Painted red with black trim. Then I took a range template that the connection tab had broken off, & cut it in half = (2) 3" range templates. Painted one red & one blue. I don't compete, just playing at home with my sons & friends.
It’s frustrating that you would suggest you have strategies to survive round 1 and you wouldn’t share it as it comes off cagey. If you don’t want to share then just please edit these teases out instead.
This is an beta version of legion 2.0 They should not have released the rules or just said that these are all what they are, beta test rules and they never should have made the rules "live" If they just said hey we're making a new edition (don't obviously lie and say it's a refresh) and just show these rules as alpha or beta rules there would be no issue here. I think the majority of the changes would be shown it a whole new light if they admitted what these really were. I have no trust in AMG, the only games they can run competently is MCP and it's star wars clone and they do not have the ability to competently run so many games even when dropping two of them They even felt the need to change legion into mcp as much as they felt they could because they can't manage a different ruleset
Question for Mike- The August 17th tournament at Games Kastle- is it using this new addition??? I’m assuming yes, but wanted to make sure especially because last time I locked it wasn’t written in the notes on gameuplink
All I have to say, is if you are looking for another game that is much more thinky...and has lots of great decision points. Give Malifaux a try...its really. good.
