Justin is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist (LMFT99147) in CA that is obsessed with the #polyvagaltheory and applying it to everyday life - mental health, trauma, education, parenting and more. Justin is on the Polyvagal Institute's Editorial Board, created the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System, and authored "Trauma & the Polyvagal Paradigm." Justin's website - www.justinlmft.com Download the free ebook - www.justinlmft.com/books Learn about the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System - www.justinlmft.com/totalaccess
Justin,I downloaded the List .I was surprised to see rage and paranoia as part of freeze .I thought they are associated with the fight.Or are they repressed emotions ?
Anger is fight. Rage is explosive freeze. Just like anxiety is flight, but panic is freeze. Freeze is the immobilization of fight or flight. When those are triggered, they are panic or rage.
Thank you for this ! I have always misunderstood cognitions as beliefs. But from this its sounding like Cognitions are something that are already the end processed outcome.
For me immersing in safety during long meditations has been huge but also it hasn’t helped me to tolerate sympathetic activation. It makes me feel I need to stay in my safe bubble. Why do you recommend only microdoses of safety?
Omg. That's exactly my reaction, except I WOULD mail or message my (anger) hurt in a passive aggressive way? And then beat myself up for doing so, and, probably then do a door slam (outright rejection) of them and block them forever. 😬😭 It seems very all or nothing. Very dramatic when I write it out like this. But, is honestly what I do when I feel hurt and rejected.
This is helpful-I get the self validation of emotions part as key; although for someone who grew up in emotional neglect…it super tough to know what I am feeling. I mean that I know the words, but think of myself as kind of emotionally illiterate…or at least low literacy level. Any advice on how to practice emotional literacy…in a culture that pretty much a narrow emoting bandwidth; and where even friends talk you out of your emotions at the slight hint of say sadness…???
How is this not therapy ? I find this very therapeutic . I like many others have dealt with multiple trauma’s recently that along with my age have stopped my ability to function in my business and resulted in extreme Social anxiety and isolation for many months . Need to get past this and back to feeling positive about life but it seems to be taking forever ? 😢
I’m glad this is helpful. But it’s definitely not therapy. Education, validation, normalization all occur in therapy, sure. But there’s a lot more to direct client work.
Thank you for presenting the process of self validation, healthy validation was absent in my childhood. Im going to experiment with the breath practice while acknowledging emotions that come up. Seems simple but it’s really a big step for me.
lol I'm in the wrong place, I have no idea what he's talking about, I just clicked in the video because I misread the title as containing the words "vaginal shutdown" :P
This is very true! I have only a little energy each day because my nervous system is constantly on alert as trained from childhood. Part of that alarm system is worry about “doing nothing” or not doing the right thing or not doing enough. It is an extremely pernicious cycle. I have so much shame about my shutdown/ need for downtime. Then I often end up spending the downtime ruminating and feeling like crap. It is hard to grasp that the solution is compassion…part of me worries that I need to try harder, that once I start trying harder, things will get easier? It is a seductive fantasy, one that many people are convinced is the only answer. I studied Montessori and other human development models and the opposite is actually true…freedom and trust are what is needed to promote vitality and authentic engagement!
Thank you Mr Sunseri, It really brought clarity to me. Like you said that some sort of safety is important for the compassion to rise when the immobilisation looses up and the rage or expression of fight and flight appears. But how to put in the safety when the pull of fight and flight has reached a greater level of dysregulation.
Yeah, that's way more difficult. Ideally, the safety work is done well beforehand outside of the context of a crisis moment. In an actual crisis, safety isn't the goal typically. Instead, coping, managing, and getting through the crisis is. Or, using the defensive activation through movement, ideally mindfully. Creating space, changing the environment can help as well.
Stuck not broken - I need this my t-shirt, haha! 😅 Thank you Justin. I can't put to words how many times I've heard I'm lazy. Well... Now I know what I now and I'm so thankful for that knowledge. One tiny step at a time, we are safe, we can regulate our bodies 💖
I've put together a list of different "tools" that i can use to feel calmer, safer in the moment. At some point, someone had mentioned keeping a picture of a person you feel safe with (my grandmother) ,and i started with that which brings lots of good memories, then i added some others - pictures of me happy as a child, my pets, my kids when they were small, etc. I've added things i enjoy- things I've collected like neat stones, leaves, watching a podcast of someone hiking silently in some amazing place, a tapping or guided meditation podcast, yoga nidra, Native American chanting, my dog, music. For me it's necessary to get out of my head, i can get happy by dancing, singing along to certain songs or I can do something like tapping, breathing, yoga nidra that calms me. Changing cognition doesn't work if I don't feel safe, i need to experience something in my body first. I think if you have a list of things to do you don't have to think when you're feeling defensive or agitated, you just pick something from your list that you have around you. A walk in nature, someone to hang out with or talk to are great if theyre available when you need them. I like having lots of choices and the longer your list becomes the more things in the world make you feel calm and safe. I'm listening to Justin now saying once you feel safe you might feel sadness, or grief and that's happened to me too. I see that as progress because I'm actually feeling my feelings. You just have to experiment, take it slow and realize we're all pretty far from where we'd like to be.
Thank you 🥲 ive found safety in myself, but i feel like i always wear a skin-tight cocoon. People can see me, but they cant really get to me. Im here, but my emotions are wound up tightly to protect myself. Your videos are helping me to connect with people again. I really want to, but im afraid to dip too much into my "energy reserves" lol.
I did an episode on ADHD and PVT, but only as an audio podcast. I think it was around number 75 or so? You'll have to check the "Stuck Not Broken" podcast and hunt it down - www.justinlmft.com/podcast
I found the video too long to take anything in,would love shorts steps on how to get myself out of the shutdown as my brain wont sit still long enough to listen to the whole video everytime without wandering off somewhere, already watched the video on what shutdown is so that could have been left out as i think everyone has come here from that,badly need to get myself back to life
So coming out of it we’re supposed to feel flight or fight? It feels intense but feels like I can handle it more. I thought it was energy or emotions now that I feel my body more…but makes sense. Do you have a video on that step?
Yeah, fight would be the next step, then flight. But stillness could be the first thing one experiences from shutdown (which is safety plus shutdown). Do I have a video on it? Ehhhh not sure. Try a search on my channel? I also have learning hubs in the free members center on my site - justinlmft.com.
Yelling in your face "Snap out of it!" is not co-regulation, full stop. Co-regulation is by definition an action performed by one person that soothes another person.
It definitely could be co-regulation. Co-regulation is the expression of safety cues. One could totally say "Snap out of it" with love and compassion. (Is this something I said in the video?) Co-regulation isn't the words. It's the safety expressed by the person saying them. When I go to a gym and and get encouraged by another to do more, take on more, push myself harder... they do so with compassion and positive encouragement. Very co-regulative.
Hi Justin, Thank you for creating such informative content! As a trauma survivor and therapist, I found it incredibly helpful. Deb Dana’s work has inspired me to incorporate Polyvagal Theory into my practice as a trauma therapist. I’m interested in how to apply this biological framework when working with individuals living with dementia, particularly those in sympathetic or dorsal states. I’m currently researching the Tree of Life methodology and can see how Polyvagal Theory might support these individuals in achieving regulation in the ventral vagal state. I would love to hear your thoughts on this!
1. self-relationship reflection (THIS IS ESSENTIAL!) 2. the only failure is not doing/trying 3. no one is coming to save you 4. be the partner you want to have 5. turn down some things so that you can focus on the things that really matter TO YOU! 6. take responsibility 7. you give power to who you blame 8. generally: if you have to tell someone you ARE that, then you are NOT that 9. don't view exercise/dance/movement as an exchange for something 10. trust yourself 11. growth requires loss 12. fuck being normal 13. can't say 'no'? this makes your 'yes' meaningless 14. be careful and intentional and deliberate on how you define yourself 15. don't make assumptions 16. no one thinks about you that much 17. confidence comes from: comfort with failure 18. develop a willingness to be disliked/hated, and disapproved of 19. your tongue controls the direction of your life (SPEAK LIFE NOT DEATH!) 20. don’t trust in people, trust in GOD 21. stop living by the brainwashed-programmed rules and ideals of other people 22. be careful who you idealize 23. if you don’t change the way you see yourself, nothing else will change... 24. get VERY comfortable saying 'no' very loudly and clearly and honestly and firmly that being said, I want to die my life is hell with no escape so, I have a prayer: - health wealth love - deeper closer healthier connections with those whom I love - healing, on every level, in every way, for all of us - to be radically honest, with everyone, about everything - financial freedom - twin-flame (re)union (true and real love) - a tribe of true and real friends - to thrive off my talents and passions... - blissful magical wonderous joy, always, in all ways...
Everything I experience is a response to primary trauma dynamics rooted in my embryological development. When I say this, I mean that every action my system takes, every survival mechanism it employs, is designed to keep me safe-nothing more, nothing less. My heart, brain, and nervous system are deeply committed to my well-being. They engage in these survival mechanisms to protect me, based on an already programmed dysregulated nervous system, which is rooted in primary trauma dynamics that began during my embryological development. Understanding this, I recognize that my body's responses are not random or flawed; they are deeply ingrained protective measures. These responses are my system's way of ensuring my safety and stability when faced with the impacts of overwhelming environments By acknowledging this, I can approach my healing journey with compassion and kindness, knowing that my body is doing its best to protect me from uncomfortable suppressed trauma.
Thank you to the person who asked this question. It matches where I am at exactly. I have just watched until Karen's great reply and now saved this video on one of my playlists, as there is so much to take in. And thank you Justin for always making senxe of what is happening in our nervous systiems. I watch and rewatch many of your 'Shorts' videos, which offer me snippets of information which helps my understanding of where I am at right now.
Justin Sunseri: Is there any chance you could actually look at us, in our direction? It helps me to connect with you and believe you are telling me the truth.
In my state, i cannot access to something safer like a walk or somethin smaller or to feel what is in my body, it has to be considered 😮 i feel so much dissociated ! Unless somebody else forces me to do something adapted and safe and that brings me out of my environment. For example my companion takes me to a place in nature that is truly rejuvenating and a change of scenery. But you need to have someone with whom you feel really safe and who is really available... or you need money..... If i am alone and cannot do nothing or being with somebody then I feel i need to embrace the void and do nothing but it feels so unsafe... Sometimes what you can do is to watch very inspiring and cozy videos like cozy vlog that reflect your deepest values and desires. I choose the ones that are gentle and don't make me feel pressured. But most of the time i CANNOT that...
I totally relate to what you have said. It is very isolating and doing this alone is such an uphill challenge. I get stuck indoors and unable to go out my front door, but if I can make it out in nature, it makes such a difference. That getting out there is the challenge as my nervous system feels everything is unsafe right now and everybody. And then the shame of not being able to do the basics indoors.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. It helps me feeling a little less like an alien right now. To me listening to audiobooks can be helpful sometimes.
The blue star yoga nidra is probably Ally Boothroyd, utube. An EXCELLENT free resource with scientific backing by Andrew Huberman who discusses the health benefits of non sleep deep rest NSDR. I suffer from sleep disorders and physical illnesses that I believe stem mainly from a lifetime of CPTSD. I hope this info helps someone and thank you Justin, sometimes safety is someone like you, that I don't know but is genuinely compassionate and educated about these things. I hope to someday find some safe co regulation with an actual person 🙏 lol
Your comments are probably good because so many people struggle with this and you are incredibly well versed in the most current understanding of the nervous system. Not the quick fix nonsense lol. You came up in my algorithm because of Irene Lyon and Stephen Porges most likely! I wish I had the funds and the tech savvy to work with you. ❤❤
Does ployvagal theory have anything to say about attachment theory in regards to laying down neural pathways in limbic system during early infancy ? At such a young vulnerable age, obviously unable to conceptualize, an infant begins to internalize basic notions or a sense of of safety/security, reliability and trust in caretaker . When their cues to soothe discomfort are not met perhaps their limbic system begins to lay down pathways that make an infant prone to anxieties relating to perceived threats to their safety and trust subconsciously such that the anxiety rears its head later on in yrs as an adult in relationships with others, especially close ones ?
Yes, PVT has insights into the importance of attachment during infancy. It discusses the process of myelination of the ventral vagal fibers (safety state) and connects it to oxytocin as well (Porges' wife is an expert in this area). PVT also discusses co-regulation as a central aspect of attachment.
Hey Justin, the lurker here. So kind of you to take so much time to delve into my question, and reach out to your community. Thank you so much. There’s so much helpful information to take in here, and some real gems, especially about the nuances of safety, and its often overlooked manifestations and more subtle characteristics. The big one for me actually was the guy who was just doing too much. I find myself almost scrabbling for safety, and scrutinising myself almost constantly. I think there’s an underlying fear that if I just stop ‘doing’ then I’ll get sucked into some kind of trauma void, that my body will unravel and unleash all kinds of hell. I’m guessing this isn’t too common. I feel like I’m exerting a lot of energy holding on, and constantly trying, which is probably adding a lot of stress to the system. I don’t trust that my body won’t suddenly rock the boat, throwing me overboard. I’m terrible at just hanging out without the constant hyper vigilance and mental ‘doing.’ It’s possible that I just need to stop trying anything for a while, and just give myself a break
I’m back. Have rewatched again but there’s still one thing I still really don’t get! It’s said that we shouldn’t be thinking in such black and white terms and cartoony ways, but also that being with defence and safety simultaneously should be the *eventual* goal. How can this be an eventual goal? I can’t see any other option available to me in the meantime. I really don’t mean to nitpick but my anxious mind finds this all so incredibly confusing. I’m terrified that I’m doing the wrong thing by just allowing this energy to be there. The idea of this being an eventual goal suggests that I shouldn’t be doing this yet (letting it be there), but I can’t see any other way. I can’t help seeing contradictions here. TLDR - My instincts are telling me to just allow the anxiety to be, but there are aspects of PVT which suggest that there should be this other step in between, but I just can’t see how that’s possible. My mind spins and spins trying to make sense of this.
