In America I find a number of cans have tops that that are just slightly narrower (maybe 1 mm) than the body (V8 Juice cans, e.g.). They can still work. I just cut the outer part slightly taller than the inner part and then fill the gap with JB Weld. It works fine.
Also keep in mind soup cans with a tall rim lip would make the same stove, only it's a lot stronger. Plus a smaller can to put in the interior of the bigger can.
Another thing you can is cut off another top of a can, and cover up the jet holes, add wiring like a handle, then you have a simmer ring. :) Thanks for your demonstration. :)
Thank you so much for this incredibly detailed video series! I’ve been wanting to make these sorts of stoves for MANY years and only now did I discover this!! Will definitely be giving this e-chs a go and hope to take it on some upcoming backpacking trips.
You made your channels perpendicular from mark to mark. Try going from the top mark down but not straight down. Change to an adjacent mark to make an angled channel. This should allow more contact surface and add in a slight swirl effect. Allows more time for vaporization. About your drilling holes - Start a hole but use a finishing nail if you can find the right size, insert it into the hole, and bend the hole with the nail to the desired angle. Preferably the same angle that you made your channels. Instead of bending the tabs inward, bend them outward. Allows for more contact between the inner piece and the outer piece as well as making the stove a bit more solid. Prior to insertion, place the channeled inner part in the freezer for 15-20 minutes. When ready, heat the outer part like you did and quickly get the inner part inserted. That method is similar to inserting bearings into a motor end bell. Nice video. Wish you showed how it burned (lights out), some times, and how much fuel used.
Note: there is some variation in weight between individual Toaks Light 650ml Titanium pots...Mine weighs exactly 68.58g without the lid, and my lid weighs exactly 17.10g, so my pot weighs a total of 85.68g, or nearly 10g heavier than yours! However, I keep mine in a TreadLite Gear DCF drawstring Pot storage bag which weighs exactly 3.47g, so that gives a total of 89.17g, which is only 1.17g more than yours with the original Toaks storage bag. Also, unlike yours, mine does have fill markings embossed into one side, so again it seems there are at least two versions of the same pot on the market, which may explain the difference in weight.
Very nice videos. I have made many of these using Tetkoba's original videos and use them exclusively on my backpacking trips. When used with a pot with a heat exchanger such as an Olicamp XTS pot, I can boil 2 cups (473 mL) of water in just over 4 min with about 12 grams of fuel. Another trick to save fuel is to add a lot more than you need and then just set the pot gently on the stove to snuf out the flame and transfer the excess fuel back to your bottle. No waste at all that way and you don't have to guess how much fuel you need. BTW, I have a hard time finding cans with the desired rim that is the same circumference as the body. The ones I get are very close, but not perfect. They still make perfectly good eCHS stoves. I just trim the outer wall to be perhaps 1 mm taller than the inner and then fill that gap with JB Weld. Works great, but adds a day to the build to let the glue set. Also, I use an architect ruler to make the ridges. Haven't found a great way to cut the top yet. I use of combination of your tricks. My solution is to get it close and leave it rough and ugly. Still works. I don't bother removing the paint either.
Update: I received some questions about adding a lid for efficiency. After some tests, I've found that adding a lid improves boil times by 6.5% with the titanium Toaks and 9% with the aluminium GSI pots. Overall, this would give an extra 2.5% advantage to the GSI pot (in other words, negligible).
Except Aluminium is a Neurotoxin which can lead to Alzheimer's when ingested, so you should avoid any camping cookware than contains it. Titanium, on the other hand, is 100% non toxic, so it is worth paying a small weight and efficiency penalty to know your cookware is not going to poison you.
@@alfoutdoors9660 The GSI pot in this video has been anodised, meaning it does not leach aluminium. However, you're right that titanium is non-toxic and this is one reason I like it.
@@alfoutdoors9660 The anodised coating on my GSI pot has not scratched off, even after a through-hike. Also, the water isn't really in contact with the lid.
6:50 Excellent review, but in your boil comparison, using a capillary burner like you did removes a lot of the built-in advantage of the wider aluminum pot. The stove used has a center flame pattern, a wide pattern (side burner) might have made a huge difference, and might have favored the wider pot.
Side-burners definitely work better with wider pots, which is one reason I used a centre-burner. However, centre-burners work equally well with both types of pot.
5% Difference in efficiency + 4.5% difference in time is, I'm certain, well within the margin of error of all the variables inherent in this type of comparison. The most significant differences by far are the diameters (packability) of the pots, and the weight (packability again) of the pots. The Toaks clearly wins both.
So it weighs slightly more than the Toaks 650 when lids are included, but holds 80ml less water ... not so good unless you really need a wide pot (the 570fd is 12cm wide). There's also the Toaks 550 Light, which is only 54g, or 72g with lid. The Toaks 650 is better than both of those pots if you need to boil two cups, which is why I went for the 650. I do like Evernew, though - their new pots use ultra-thin 3mm titanium like the Toaks Light series. I've been tempted to buy their 1-litre Pasta Pot for when I'm hiking with my girlfriend. I just wish it held a bit more water.
You can make this with cans that have the tapered tops. In the original video, he uses only the bottoms of three cans to make the components: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fbHHQrh9m58.html The tops don't matter. However, Jandal's video series will be very helpful as far as techniques used to build it. Really glad to have this resource! Thank you!
First, thanks a lot for your detailed videos! Until now I wasn't able to find a can that has the same diameter ind the body and the hoop. I nevertheless found one where difference is less than 1mm ... Do you think it works when I fold it over at the end instead of cutting it to close the (really small) gap? Thanks for your help!
Well done. But how does Tetkoba manage a 100% blue flame? I’ve made six of these hoop stoves with different cans. One can per stove or three cans per stove. They work well and the efficiency is great, but the 100% blue flame remains elusive. There is always blue flame at the base and the orange flame at the top.
A lot of it has to do with the fuel. I live in New Zealand and was living in Australia when I made this video. The fuel in our countries has a substance in it to make it taste bad, so that alcoholics can't drink it. This makes the fuel burn yellow.
@@LeonardoImanuel Not sure, Leonardo - I've never made a 40mm stove. Check out Tetkoba's videos for eCHS and CHS Universal stoves - he often makes tall stoves and times how long they burn for.
@@Rooxie973 Thanks for pointing ultralight bottles - couldn't find them on Nalgene's website, though. Most of the bottles on there were more than 130g, which is very heavy for backpacking. Not saying they don't have their uses, but it's an odd mix to pair one with an ultralight pot.
@@jandal8905 I've often wondered why Nalgene bottles get so much print space online. They are much heavier than home-made alternatives. Terrible for backpackers, although great for campsite use
Best video for describing the building of these stoves so thanks for taking the time. I do have a favour to ask though: could you recall the name of the Japanese shop that you bought the cans from? I am really struggling to find the perfect cans down here in small-town Southland (Te Anau). Thanks mate.
Doh. Just remembered that you referenced a store called Daiso in Auckland. And they didn't have that product online when I checked. They have a couple of stores now I see. Wellington too. I'll call them and see if they'll do an order over the phone. Do you happen to know if the canned coffee (eg. hiveminer.com/Tags/cans%2Cdrip ) that are available from these stores are a suitable match for the winning can?
@@bell1974 I don't know if the coffee cans are any good. I did find some good cans in another Japanese store the last time I was in Auckland. The best way to check is to hold two cans side-by-side, and see if the top rims touch.
Ah, interesting. Would you seal just the inner pressed rim, or both the inner pressed rim, and the top where both cans join before folding the top of the outer over the inside can?
The leak I'm talking about is at the top of the can, where they join before folding over (I actually don't even bother to fold over most of the time). I have experimented with one stove by sealing the gap underneath, but it didn't seem to make much difference to efficiency. Your experience might be different, however, depending on what types of cans you're using. I always used the same type of can, which I obtained from a Japanese store called Daiso.
Boy, I am just not having any luck getting the pin vise to drill through the can. I dunno if it's me or the can or the vise, but it's just making no progress towards going through. Any advice?
Thanks! I ended up getting a better bit and it worked fine... Only 45 seconds per hole or so. I realized that the fruit juice can I used on attempt #1 was the same dimensions as a Redbull can, but was MUCH thicker aluminum. For attempt #2 I used a Redbull can and it made the job much easier in all respects. Still wasn't a success, unfortunately, but maybe third time's the charm. So far I can't get any jets to work because all the gas escapes from a fairly significant gap between the two can parts (inner and outer). My second build wasn't nearly as difficult to push together as yours because it just didn't make any kind of seal. I'm wondering if my Redbull can was once again the wrong type.
I don't know where you're based, but I read on a hiking forum that Red Bull cans don't work too well in the United States. The cans seem to differ a bit depending on your country. There's a very long thread on Appalaciantrailcafe.net in which people discuss can types and construction methods. Google it if you want, but it's a long read!
@@jandal8905 Yes, I am in the US, so I'll have to head to a larger Asian market and see if I can't track down the same can you use here. If not, maybe I'll try the universal version.
I've built 4 or 5 of these now with different cans - none seem to perform like yours or Tetkobas so far. My time to reach boil with room temperature water is more like 12 minutes. I think I must still not have a good seal between the can inner and outer pieces. Have to get some jb weld, I guess.
Hi Mikkel. To be honest, I don't know. I live in New Zealand. Your name sounds European (Finnish?) and it's possible that Red Bull cans are different in your part of the world. To assess whether your can will work, check out the video from 3:20 onwards - especially at 4:10.
I don't think so, Mikkel. You can make another type of stove with Red Bull cans, called the Universal Capillary Hoop Stove. Search Tetkoba's videos for this.
Thank you for doing this test. Do you typically not use lids in the backcountry? Your larger pot will lose a significant amount of heat more than the surface area of the smaller pot that is exposed to the ambient air. Also, a larger pot has more sidewalls that act more like a heat sink and finally, the larger pot has more surface area to conduct more heat to the water. This factor may offset the above noted testing discrepancies but you will not know to what degree unless you do the test again with a lid and temperture probe.
Hello. I usually do carry a lid in the back-country. I didn't use them for this test because the aluminium lid is much thicker and heavier than the titanium lid, which would have introduced another variable. There is about a 55% difference in surface area between the amount of exposed water in the large pot and small pot. However, I have found that adding a lid only provides about a 6% efficiency gain. Therefore, adding lids to the experiment would not have made much difference to the results, even if you assume that lids would give the larger pot a slight advantage (eg, 6% gain for the big pot and 4% gain for the small). This experiment was conducted partly to measure whether the other factors you mention (especially the surface area exposed to the flame and the conductivity of the two metals) make much difference to efficiency. The answer is that they don't - only about 5%, which is not significant when compared with the massive weight difference of nearly 100% between the two pots.
...in fact, the 6% advantage provided by lids is so minimal that I am considering NOT using them in the backcountry for trips in which I'm carrying less than 200g of fuel. I might do a video about this at a later time.
What size lid are you noting at a 6% advantage? It would an interesting test for you if you compare a larger pot with a smaller pot while using the same burner. Try using an alcohol burner that is designed for a small pot. The larger pot without a lid will be hard pressed to even boil especially if the ambient air is cold.
Normal lids. Have tried with both gas and small alcohol burner. The alcohol burner in this video is optimised for narrow pots, as well as wide pots (it's a centre-burner, rather than a side-burner such as a cat stove), and it had no problem bringing both to a rolling boil.
hi - you made may day! finally somebody takes care about important details in depth. makes no sense for me to over and over watch somebody cooking their meals or whatever, i´m much more interested in exact dimensions, weights and such kind of things. thx a lot for that.
Hi there, I don't remember the diameter of the can. I think it was in the first video (?). Yes, it is very important that the upper rim is the same diameter as the body. Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks v much for sharing this. i wonder how the use of a lid might influence the results (e.g. marginal or significant difference, evenly vs differential/exaggerating the difference between the design/materials). I also wonder whether the differences might be linear or curved for larger volumes (i was thinking of getting 1.1L pots to be able to make 2 dehydrated dishes or whatever). Trying to decide between two offerings from GSI (one treated with teflon, the other not, but both anodized, and both with some marketing claiming best heat transfer or whatever) and a couple similar designs from Toaks.
www.toaksoutdoor.com/collections/d115mm-pot/products/ckw-1100 www.toaksoutdoor.com/collections/d115mm-pot/products/pot-1100 www.gsioutdoors.com/explore/pinnacle/pinnacle-soloist.html www.gsioutdoors.com/explore/halulite-1-1-l-boiler.html or this one which is probably too small for my 'needs' www.gsioutdoors.com/explore/halulite-minimalist.html
Hi Bentropy, I did some additional tests and found that adding a lid improved efficiency by an average of 6.5%. I did test both pots but cannot tell from my notes whether the 6.5% was for one pot or both, however I think adding a lid offered similar benefits for both pots. The reason I left the lids off for this test was that the GSI lid is much, much heavier than the Toaks lid and I wanted to remove as many variables as possible so that I could isolate tall-slim versus wide-short and aluminium vs titanium.
... I'll add another reply as I just checked out the pots you're considering. Of those, I'd personally choose this one: www.toaksoutdoor.com/collections/d115mm-pot/products/pot-1100 I've actually considered buying it myself because it holds 230g gas canister perfectly. I believe that my experiment proves that heat transfer and pot shape is less important than pot weight (only 5% difference in fuel efficiency) in terms of the total weight of pot and fuel you're going to end up carrying, so I wouldn't read too much into manufacturer claims about that. I've found that food sticks to both titanium and hard-anodised aluminium, but haven't tried teflon. However, most of my meals are boil-ups, which means that the pots are easily cleaned anyway. Obviously, I own both Toaks titanium and GSI hard-anodised aluminium gear, so I don't have any brand loyalty to one over the other. In my opinion, titanium is better.
thank you so much for the reply, Jandal. Yes, i was steering towards one that can nest the 230g canisters, since i think i'll want to go longer between re-supplies (and the proportion of container:fuel is significant between 110 vs 230), even tho the volume (1.1L) is going to be overkill much of the time, for solo dehydrated meals. I actually have a GSI Pinnacle Dualist set (2 person with 1.8L teflon-coated aluminum). It's smartly designed, but even removing the some of the cups/bowls, 1.8L pot seems heavy/overkill for my ultra-light set-up and potential solo trips. I'll probably go with that one you recommend (and I'd been leaning towards) with the slight risk that I'll want to trim down later to a smaller vessel, esbit or alcohol stove, or just stoveless. Thanks for helping remove some variables to worry about. I think you're spot on that the efficiency differences are negligible and eaten up by the weight.
I see from your profile that you're interested in long-distance hiking. I have personal experience with this, as I through-hiked New Zealand's 3000km trail, Te Araroa. If you're interested in going ultralight and want to use gas, then I recommend the BRS-3000T stove. It's very cheap, very light, and surprisingly efficient. To maximise efficiency, turn the stove down to about 60% to 70% power. At full power, it's less efficient than an MSR Pocket Rocket, but at reduced power the efficiency is the same (I've done comparison tests). Alcohol is much less efficient than gas, but you don't have to carry a gas canister. I've used both, and I prefer gas, but you'll find that alcohol fans will argue otherwise. If you're going to do a through-hike then I think you'll find 1.8 litres to be unnecessarily big. I found this Toaks 650ml to be great on a four-day hike recently, but even if you're eating big meals and having a drink you should find 1 litre to be ample.
