Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you!
Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com Stan Prokopenko - instagram.com/stanprokopenko
Let's see..... I was in college for graphic design in 1999..... back then the biggest issue is that EVERYBODY pirated photoshop and cluttered the market cause now EVERYBODY is a "designer"...... Graduated... I am creative.... Worked for Bloomingdales doing visual Merchandising.... eventually landed on the promotional products field which led me to apparel decoration.... Print, decorate garments and fashion.... so "pay" was laughable as the market was cluttered.... Thankfully I have a working brain and know what I am doing.... So in my professional life I have spent fixing mistakes, cause honestly; just trying to get a file in the right format is like pulling teeth.... I live in Miami.... and yes there is HUGE Art Gallery market as there is always a public for art decoration on all these high end condo/houses.... and yes.... The Internet has made it a lot easier to market/network.....
Hey, I'm glad to see more Draftsmen stuff. I just wanted to say, you guys have mentioned not having subjects to talk about, but I think doing an episode on drawing from imagination would be very helpful. Its of course come up many times, but I don't think you ever did an episode fully dedicated to it (I went back and looked since I've been struggling with it). I would love to hear some thoughts on it and potential resources to improve it as a skill, as I'm really struggling to figure out what I should do to learn it. Thanks if you consider this comment!
I have been enjoying Stan's Snack segments, now I'm depressed and have food to eat!! In all seriousness tho, I am a snacker. Can we get a snacks for while you work segments on the show 😄
But the reflection on movie industry and how in history an specific industry will be filled with "It's over" reactions and speculation but it stills goes on, it is indeed hopeful and encouraging for me. I'm graduating in journalism and one thing we learn about communication and it's history is that this kind of struggle is not new, it always appears from time to time and are always misinterpreted. When tv came along, people thought radio will be over, and guess what? It didn't. Same thing with tv times later and internet breaking through. So I don't know, it might not be exactly the same as comparing to the whole AI issue but it still is a reflection that, as a communicator and seen art still as communication too, gives me hope that it might be the same case. (that ofc doesn't change the fact that it's going to be tough and that we'll have lots to fight for, including our rights and not just accepting the "guess we're all going to be entrepreneurs with our own small business" situation. don't agree to that one bit, don't think it's fair or that it's the only path possible in this "we'll have to adapt to the changes" speech)
06:47 how out of touch you are Stan. Not to discredit your hard work in life but you clearly got lucky and have been riding off of that luck. You speak from a place that has never experienced hardship, whether this is true or not you speak from a place of entitlement Stan and it is disappointing to see. There are plenty of equally hard working and talent people that don't make regardless of their own efforts. The majority of people in the field in fact never make it and end up broke and hopeless. Yet people like you always give the advide of just work "harder" and you'll make it without ever givin credit to luck and having doors open without anything you did personally. The majority of people don't get these green lights like some of the more outspoken people in these fields do.
Not sure how you've misinterpreted this to sound like coming from a place of entitlement: "It's going to be a rough battle, no matter what. It's very competitive and it's really hard to do. And even when you make it, it's still low pay." This is a clear and honest statement that no one is guaranteed success and even the lowest skilled artist can achieve success if they find a path that works. The goal in trying to become a professional artist if to get to make something that you enjoy working on and it can pay your bills and maybe even allow you to help others to pursue that goal as well, financially or in some other way. What was said there is what artists need to be reminded of, now more than ever. Find your path and try others if they aren't working. That is the best advice we can possibly give to anyone trying to find success. Everyone has their own struggles, whether they choose to share those struggles or not. You do not know someone else's life, what they have been through or are going through.
I didn't make it as a professional artist. I chose web design-and now I'm making a livable wage. I just did a book illustration for a friend for fun, and enjoyed the hell out of the process. You can still enjoy making art even if you don't "make it."
This was like a 2 minute aside in the podcast, and Marshal even laughed about it, but cold therapy is absolute woo/alternative medicine. Please don't waste the money and time intentionally freezing yourself, hoping it'll have any real effect other than forcing your body to produce adrenaline for a few minutes due to the unexpected thermal shock.
Marshall is the most patient man alive. I had to stop this video multiple times I got so frustrated with how dense and arrogant proko comes off throughout this entire conversation. The fact that he missed every hint Marshall dropped, maybe even the whole point of the video, that this was an ai thing and that circumstances have changed to the point you can no longer just shrug off layoffs as a bust soon to be followed by a boom. When he isn’t just completely missing the point he falls back onto his own, clearly limited and insulated, experience in the art world, or his peers who are already successful. Yes art directors aren’t going away any time soon but that’s not what we are worried about, we are worried that the path to becoming an art director, those low level jobs you gain experience and connections through, while making some kind of a living, are going to be completely obliterated.
We're definitely in the middle of a seismic shift for the creative industries. In a time that's as unknowable as this, the best things we can do is look back on the way artists have dealt with previous waves of changes and learn what we can to hopefully apply that to now. It won't have all the answers but it's one of the best tools we've got. There's a very real problem with the lack of entry level positions that people can work upwards from and become the new experienced leadership. We don't have all of the answers but will discuss the topics as we can, while relying on the conversation we've had with creatives in different fields. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and is something that we've seen in creative fields in decades past. We haven't found a solid fix for it but there are many things that independent artists do that can help them sharpen those skills even if the businesses fail to. In no way is our experience limited to people who have already made it, though. We're two teachers who by the very nature of the job are regularly having conversations with novice artist, intermediate artists, people who work in one field looking to learn about another and re-spec into another field as well as talking to accomplished professionals.
@@Draftsmen I’d like to apologize, this is obviously a topic I care about a lot and while I was frustrated I was also unnecessarily harsh. I do think focusing on paths forward is ultimately much more useful than focusing on how bad things are now or could be in the future
You're good! Caring about it a lot is a good thing and we need that to be able to get ourselves through every new challenge. We won't always get it right but we'll always try to add anything positive we can into the conversation. Thanks for replying. We'll get through this mess together! 🫡
I love drawing! But I have a corporate job haha. Im definitely a hobbyist and I wouldnt wanna work as an artist lol. So I definitely think a bunch of hobbyists like me are dabbling into arts since our day to day is very cookie cutter
I don't dare listen to this. I'm guessing there's gonna be a bunch of depressing ai shit so I'll just leave this comment here for the sake of the algorithm
I met with Disney artist James Mulligan back in April of this year. When I asked him how to have an edge in this industry with the rise of AI, he said to stick with the traditional forms of visual art. That's proven to show through all of the new things in our industry. I've also learned that it's great to have an awesome portfolio, but it's even better to have a network of people who believe in your work and who you can support in return.
I’m very old for art, 56. I am an amateur artist and I do not delude myself into thinking that I can sell my art with professional artist with a million more skills than I will ever have are having trouble selling art. If I were to sell something, I’d be happy, but I don’t expect that to happen. So I happily take free “commissions “ from friends and family for my level of art skill. Both of you have helped me immensely with my journey. Please continue the Draftsman podcast videos! By the way, Stan, Bougereau is my favorite artist as well. I marvel at his skill
18:40 "Some of the greatest artists of history did their best work as amateurs." - Unsurprisingly, I might add, with a word coming from "amator" or Latin for "lover". It is really something special when something is made from the passion and love of wanting to make that thing, instead of as a means to pay the bills.
Marshall has some good points on the topic but, as often happens, I think Proko doesn’t have much to offer to the disccussion and resorts to overly simplistic takes that just revolve around anecdotal evidences and his surface impressions of very complex subjects. I believe he feels his takes are really smart and “out of the box” but they are not actually adding much to the discussion other than dumbing it down, It would have been great to have an actual industry artist talking with Marshall here. The survivorship bias is super strong with Proko, he’s not as witty as he thinks he is, at least during these podcasts.
It's even harder when you have "artists" like ErgoJosh and Adam Duff just telling artists to suck it up and take it. Completely disregarding those that aren't established artists and those that lost their jobs because of AI
I just love this podcast so much. The flow of your conversations, coupled with the immense knowledge and profound perspectives you both bring, is just invaluable to me. Every time I listen, I'm not just learning - I'm reigniting that "creative spark" that sometimes seems to fade (that sounded cheesy, but I don't know any better way to put it, I'm sorry :D). The way you articulate and discuss complex subjects is unmatched in my opinion. No other podcast or resource in the art and illustration world comes close to what I get out of these conversations between you two. Thank you so much for coming back with more episodes! :)
Sorry but i really think Stan had a super shallow take on all of this for that whole starting section and he kept trying to make jokes instead of really look at the situation or empathize with what people are going through right now in the industry outside of his circle. I totally agree with marshall when he said stan sounded like the queen when she said let them eat cake. I do agree with the idea that no matter of weather or not you have an art job, you can take solace in making your art to the best of your ability and still approach it as a business etc. I really don't like stan objecting to giving any advice for any circumstance within the arts industry at the current time just because there are so many different circumstances and elements to it. Was just a throwing of the white flag because it was too complex a subject. Stan was literally saying shit like "well i mean its not just gonna be all butterflies and sprinkles", his absolute lack of taking the subject seriously is practically insulting. Marshall was really holding it down with the episode with the problem breakdown section and getting into the vance kovacs and justin sweet portion. I do agree with stan's point that there will likely be an influx of a lot of small teams and companies creating products that are competing with the larger products. I myself founded a small game studio and am producing a metroidvania, and so I'm partaking in that side of this situation as we speak. Stan, while you may not have yucked marshall's yum, i do feel you yucked my yum while you were smacking your venison stick into the microphone while failing to realize that knowing how to create a perspective distortion in photoshop is in fact problem solving. Stan shutting down literally any art topic like art illusions as soon as they come up make him a really bad host for an art discussion podcast quite frankly because its an entirely unhelpful foil. Marshall has to jut in and say that weather you're interested in perspective illusions or not stan, this is for the audience, in order to get the goods to the viewers. I also agree with stan's instinct that there will be a retraction from the digital into the physical world and interacting with real people, and things.
I always enjoy drafstmen podcasts and I'm glad I had the evening off to watch it in full. I'm honestly amazed at how easily Marshall connects the ideas of what you guys talk about with quotes from books and I loved the part where you talked about building a strong mindset to be prepared for any difficulties. I really appreciate your talks.
Humans are going to push back when we become completely obsolete. They can’t take our souls. My husbands grandfather worked for GE, decades he worked for them. He lost all his retirement and pensions in the great recession and lives in a trailer now.
Before I even watch the video I just wanna say THANK YOU, Charlie, Stan, Marshall, Christian, and all the rest of you beautiful team that we don´t get to see. You guys have been PIVOTAL in the maintaining of the flame of love of the arts for SO MANY PEOPLE. I would have never worked up the courage to dedicate so much of my life to art again after turning 30 had it not been for you guys. Your love and dedication to the teaching of the arts, in spite of how damn difficult it is to survive and make art, let alone survive by making art, it´s just something so precious. I saved up my money, I bought some Proko courses, I bought Marshall´s old videos, and I just RAN WITH IT. Where the hell am I headed? I don´t f*cking know and I don´t care - the sheer joy of being on the path of Mastery thanks to your support has been an oasis in the desert of life. You will probably never understand just how much all of you people´s work matters to so many of us and all we can say is THANK YOU, and SUPER THANK YOU for making more DRAFTSMEN PODCAST EPISODES <3 <3 <3, and greetings from Mexico :)
Just got into the creation side of art in February this year(2024). Found yalls podcast and started to binge it immediately; only to come upon season three and see you guys were ending the podcast. Now as I'm ending season three and was about to start to pester you guys on social to do another season, I see you guys start to upload a new season.🙏 Long story short I'm ecstatic yall are doing another season, and look forward to whatever you guys put out. P.S. Marshall is my fav part of the podcast, Stan your a close sec.
6:40 i have a story about a more impactful short project than longer ones. I once saw a post of a duck seen from below, it looked just like that meme of Principal Skinner saying "Pathetic" where he had the dramatic lightning from below. So i made a quick digital painting of that duck with the same dramatic lightning and saying Pathetic, just for the giggles, took me about 1 1/2 hours, quickest painting i ever did in my life, posted it in the comments. I was surprised to to gather about 1k likes or so. Then someone told me to post it on Displate cause it's cool. I did and then forgot about it for a couple of months. One day i remembered about it and decided to check my displate shop. I made 70 bucks in that period, and then it quickly exploded to make about 10K in 4 months. 48k two years later to this day. To my frustration, that damn duck, made in about one hour, is selling more like 99% of the time more than anything i painted for weeks and months on end. I still love my Pathetic Duck but i wish more of my paintings would have at least 1/10th of that success. sheesh
years ago , I used to follow religiously to this podcast to improve my english by listen to Marshall and Stan, even not being a Artist , just because I like the subject and used to draw when a kid. Maybe, that can be part of the new future, making things for people so they can learn something and feel good,nspired and interact . it's so satisfying to get back listening to you guys talking again .
I really hope that if you continue doing the podcast, that you will revisit the “State of the Art Industry “ topic every year. In fact, even if you guys do take another break, (temporary or permanent) please consider doing this topic once a year. If you proved anything with this episode, it’s that the nature and business of creativity is ever-evolving. Thanks for the great conversation 😊
The future is headed towards a world like the movie Alien . Everyone will be a space trucker or a soldier or a tradesman . You will travel to space and go to a space station but the computers will control everything, and you’ll just be a plumber in space .
Proko, people around you are well-adjusted industry professionals. If there are few people left able to make art as a living, they are it. When there's gonna be 1 job left where 99 were taken over by machine, your people will be taking that 1 job. So, they have nothing to be afraid of. People in the internet are mostly students that have no industry experience to put on the resume. And with how nepotistic art industry is, these student will have zero chance of getting that one job. Also, interest in art has nothing to do with it's prospect as a career. I would still do art when I have to force myself to do a 9-5 factory job. It's the will to express themselves that motivate people to learn art. Making a living out of it is the best thing, but not the be-all end-all. Not everyone is business minded like you. No one start art thinking they will be a billionaire. Finally, I really find it annoying how you think people mad at current state of things are just lazy people who can't adjust. Most people don't have a problem with AI being there. It's how they are trained (off of those people's art) and how they are used against artist that are making people angry. I don't get how you don't understand the frustration. Let's say you are a baker. Some thief comes up and steal your formula/recipe and make a factory out of it selling it to millions and put you out of business. Do you say "suck it up and adjust"? Is that the right response to injustice? When such bad behaviors are rewarded, who's to say they won't do the same thing to the next thing you try to do?
coming from the graphic design world, i can say a lot of similar things you guys have touched on here. its rough out there right now for everyone at all levels. i dont know how much generative AI has played a role in that, but it has to be part of it. my optimistic take remains that these current pains will subside with time. the general public hasn't reacted well to gAI, the products are very expensive to build and maintain, have growing legal trouble, and there are at least some Designers like myself not interested in using tools that take away from creative process and also do harm to our creative peers-all with a monthly fee. i also agree that the new future for creative professionals (or hobbyists) may include smaller but stronger real world communities and products. my fear though is that everything might break up into fractions that are too small to maintain a living for anyone. but if clients can see that replacing professionals with cheap amateurs and gAI does not yield the value they hoped for, things will swing back in favor of creative skills. also, so happy the Draftsmen pod is back!
Huh? right out there now? it's been like that for over 25 years when pirating photoshop, EVERYBODY became a "designer" and the salaries began to plummet into the toilet.
