Hi everyone! I'm a Precision Rifle Shooting enthusiast. I try to provide a good overview of the equipment I use and some thought into how I decide on which equipment to purchase.
If you watch my reviews, you'll see that in most cases I use an excel spreadsheet to organize my thoughts and whittle the prospects down to a review-able group. I may not include all options due to price, quality from other reviews, or other factors, but the ones I do include are generally what you would consider as well.
I hope you enjoy my videos and that you'll join the "4GunGuy" family! Thanks for watching, and shoot straight!
Thanks Erickaracsonyi4415! I've spent too much time worrying about the numbers, only to realize that the groups don't lie! Thanks for watching my friend!
That strategy makes a lot of sense! I'm shooting my first PRS match in less than two weeks, so I'm trying to absorb as much as possible beforehand (I know - don't have any expectations for your first match!). Anyway, these stage analysis videos of yours are great, as I'm using them to build a stage analysis cheat sheet.
Hi Davekantrud! Glad to help you out and hopefully take a little stress off your first match. You'll LOVE it! Just go slow, try to make quality impacts, and don't care what other shooters are doing from an impact perspective. Try to find the good shooters in your squad and watch how they shoot the stage so you can learn from them in real time. Good luck to you and thanks for watching my friend!
Hybrids and even Tangents, to an extent, are not seating depth sensitive. I'd have to look at a print of a 107SMK but I'm fairly certain it's somewhere between a tangent and a hybrid. The .020 off the lands seating depth would likely print a group the same size as the others if you shot enough individual 5 shot groups. The human brain is hard wired to look for patterns and things that probably aren't there.
Hi TexasLeverGunner! I agree and I think we saw that in the results here. As a beginner, I got hung up on the numbers and wasted a lot of rounds chasing them for the 'best' SD/ES/Group combo. It's only when you start to do some hard calculations around ES's that you can understand how large or small of a difference an ES range can make at distance, in fact, I've talked about that and given numbers in a few of my videos related specifically to PRS (not F-Class, which has a very different accuracy requirement). And your comment on the human brain is spot on. How many times have we looked at other shooter's impacts while checking zero at the range or before a match and then strived for that accuracy, wasting ammo in the process...Good is good enough in this sport, and I suggest that a good 60% of our misses are because of US, not our equipment or our cartridge. Thanks for the great input and for watching my friend!
How I find my seating depth - politely PM a pro who I know shoots the same cartidge with the same components. Ask what his load and depth is. Load up 25 of those. If it groups okay with a good SD, I run it and never look back.
Hi joemass1023! That will work as long as you get the results that work for your barrel and is a great starting point if not, so really good advice. Thanks for watching my friend!
Just going by memory the most common finding for me is the best groups are usually my worst with ES/SD. Not saying they are bad but across the board with probably all of my rifles, I have yet to have my best groups produce my best numbers.
Hi Accuracy1st! Rustynut1967 hit the nail on the head below...And as a beginner, I did exactly that, I chased the SD's and ES's and then when I had 'good' groups I stopped, but in reality, I was doing it backwards. Now, as you so rightly pointed out, and as my results showed, the best groups were at a poorer SD/ES node. Thanks for watching my friend!
Hi Pitts3219! Ha! You're absolutely correct! But those changes were due to mechanical factors more than accuracy. In retrospect, I'd be just as accurate today in 22LR if I had kept my first PRS 22LR, which was my Tikka T1x shooting ELEY Tenex, but I got caught up in the "Vudoo" wave and began my journey down disappointment lane. Also, 22LR ammo is VERY particular to the barreled action combo, which is why I'm releasing a new video in a couple days on how I found the new 22LR ammo that works in my new 22LR barrel. BUT, in centerfire, the only thing I've changed is the barrel over the years and have been shooting that same Impact Precision action since I started and across 2 calibers (I have changed, chassis and triggers, but those were for ergonomic reasons, not accuracy). I just wish 22LR was as easy as centerfire from an ammo perspective. Sorry for the novel here, but short of it is, yes, for 22LR you are correct. Thanks for watching my friend!
I do think some projectiles are more picky on seating depth. For what we do in prs, with a good barrel and good components, just pick a velocity and find that charge. Then, try a few seating depths and roll. There is no need to burn 500rds doing a load workup.
Hi 1clinsdime1! I totally agree and that's why in the beginning I said that if you're new to the sport, you'll get hung up on all these numbers, then eventually, you'll "see the light" and do exactly what you just said...And still make impacts. Thanks for watching another one my friend!
Hi 1clnsdime1! Yeah, I've heard of that about Frog Lube, but I used it in my 3-Gun days on my AR and Pistol in pretty cold weather with no issues...Of course that was only 30 degree weather, which is about the worst I'll shoot in! Thanks for the input, and thanks for watching my friend!
Hi ForemanJF1! I've probably got 400 rounds through the pistol with it on and no problems what so ever so far. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend!
Hi Ben! I'm using a Forster Co-Ax press (the cheap one!), a Sinclair/Wilson seating die with a K&M Press and getting great results. I resize with a SAC die, but would not recommend spending the money and sticking with Whidden or Redding resizing dies. Thanks for watching my friend!
Hey! When you did check for accuracy, did you take all measurements for weight when the rcbs were at 41.7gn? I mean, were all deviation measured at 41.7gn at the rcbs scale? Some ppl when testing these scales have included overthrows in their accuracy testing… Great job testing.
Hi Muushkin! The weight setting on the RCBS was 41.7 and since the AND scale is much more accurate than the RCBS scale, I used it to measure all drops. Remember, the AND scale is just a scientific grade scale that I'm using to measure the powder. If I was just starting out, I'd get a RCBS type scale, because in my opinion, once you understand the whole SD, ES, groups thing, you'll realize that you have to be pretty far off on your loads to make a noticeable difference at say 800 yds, and our matches are generally 850 yds and in. Hope this makes sense and thanks for watching my friend!
The only thing stopping me from buying one is the plastic casing around the guts. For $699 Garmin could have ponied up and gone with a nice strong metal case around the guts. One drop from the bench (this thing is a featherweight) and it could be curtains for the unit. If they ever put it in a proper housing, I'd consider one. I've seen a bunch of side by side testing v the mono Lab Radar and the big LR. The Garmin clearly holds its own and has the best display out of all of them IMHO. The plastic housing though, for me at least was a big miss. Just one more opinion
Hi TheRange7! I totally understand where you're coming from. I've used mine steadily (probably at least 100 times now) and have knocked it off a shooting bench onto a concrete floor about 5 times with no issues. I was thinking of buying a protective cover that some sell, but, I don't treat it too badly (unless I drop it off a bench!), so haven't. I also attach it to an ARCA clamp and then to my rifles since my comp rifles have ARCA rails. NOW, Gamin will say that voids the warranty, so I'd deny ever telling you this! Thanks for watching my friend!
@@The4GunGuy LOL< you told me nothing about ARCA , I heard nothing. That's really great news and I appreciate you sharing. Now you just cost me a 5 spot. :) Thaks for the great info and cheers.
I wish safety and success to anyone that can afford/enjoy this. Not in my budget. Calibers and equipment that I have never heard of. Unfortunate to say the least.
I have never even heard of a PRS match anywhere near to where I live. If I could find a suitcase full of money in the back of a taxi, I might approach it.
I know most don't think this way. I think everyone should start. Chinese scopes should not even be talked about let alone being considered for purchase. You have got to know what they're doing and trying to do to this country. They are not our friends plus how they treat their own people. I believe we just have to start standing up for what's right now just what is best for your pocketbook. Like your show but come on.
Hi David! I grew up in the 70's and remember the same feelings towards the Japanese...Now, with that said, I think the Japanese appreciated us far more than the Chinese did/do, so I agree with what you're saying. But, when we look around our homes and see our appliances, TV's, computers, light bulbs, etc...Coming from China, I think it's just too late...Again, I totally agree that I'd like to NOT buy China made products, but the reality is, that when we're all on a budget, we buy them. I have some very interesting thoughts on our relationship with China and the future of it all, but, that's for another channel which I hope will someday be up and running when I retire . Thanks for the frank and honest input and thanks again for watching my friend!
My parallel adjustment not only takes care of parallex it does clear up the image. Especially at the higher magnifications. Wouldn't you call that focus
Hi David! Yeah, this is a slippery slope and I tend to agree with you on it. The ocular ("rear focus") is really the reticle focus, so when you look through the scope and "focus" using the ocular, you're getting the reticle in focus for your specific eyes. The parallax is designed to bring the reticle and the TARGET in focus and on the same focal plane, which is why on some scopes you have to adjust the parallax every 150 yd change but others (better scopes) you may not even need to touch it once it's set and you change zoom. I use both terms interchangeably sometimes and I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as people know what I mean. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend!
I have 2 of them now, ran one of them on my 338 Lapua and it held zero and tracked amazing and took as much abuse as I could. I have been recommending them to friends
Hi LoneStarCarper! Glad you're having a good experience. I have to say that for the functionality and glass clarity, these are in my opinion the best sub $800 scopes out there, even though they're only $400, I'd put them in that higher category. Thanks for watching and the feedback my friend!
Man does this video help someone that’s getting new into center/rim fire. Would you change anything from this tier list in an updated new video? Thank you again for helping new shooters and grow the sport. ❤
Getting into nrl22 for the first time. I’ve seen your great videos on scopes which are amazing. I’m more of the mindset “cry once” I just got a b14r and a CZ 457 varmint mtr. Thinking of using one for base and the other for production or open. Athlon, Tract, Burris XTR III, Or Pro? Or something else? Appreciate your input
Hi Omikurita! Please see my video on scope level comparison here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TxvWUw6Xebg.html which should give you a good starting point with your research. Now, if buy once cry once is what you want, then I'd look at the tier 1 scopes and my preference in order would be (ZCO, Gen III, ATACR, TT). If you're wanting a more budget friendly but still good optics and functionality, the tier 2 preferences in order would be (Gen II, Cronus, Mark 5HD, XTR Pro). Again, this is just MY analysis, please make sure you're getting something for your age, eyes, reticle preferences, etc... For example, the Mark 5HD has 0.25 mil subtensions whereas the others are 0.20 mil subtensions, it might seem trivial, but if you're shooting two different scopes, you'll have to remember which is which. My point is that if you go with say, the Mark 5HD, then try to stick with it if you get into centerfire PRS. Hope this helps and makes sense and thanks for watching my friend!
@@omikurita No, I mean that the MK5 has 0.25 mil subtensions whereas the others have 0.20 mill subtensions...If you look at the reticle, the mk5 will have 4 markings in between major markings (the 1.0, 2.0. 3.0 mil major marks for example), but the other will have 5 markings which will give you a 0.50 mil marking on the axis. In my scope videos I always talk about how I like a 0.50 mil mark and the 0.20 subtensions so I can think in that measurement instead of 0.25 mils...It's a small thing, but I've seen other shooters get one scope for one rifle and a mk5 for another one and get confused when they're shooting. Hope I explained it well enough, but they are both Mil reticle scopes.
@@The4GunGuy thank you for opening my eye on the reticle world. Just finished watching your razor gen 3 review and now I understand. You’re the best thank you.
I had always thought it would fun to get into prs shooting and last weekend I found out that there is a monthly match 20 miles away from me. Next month I’m planning on going as a spectator and soaking up all I can. I understand that me going out and plinking at my own leisure at whatever distance is going to be far different than shooting at a match. Thanks for the info you are giving to us inexperienced new guys.
Hi Dad_with-boys! Glad you found the video helpful and you'll be hooked the second you start watching that match! If you watch some of my practice videos, you'll get an idea of movement, positioning, stage planning, etc... Which should help as well. Thanks very much for watching my friend and feel free to reach out with questions via email (the3gunguy@gmail.com).
I’m getting into PRS in particular NRL22. How would you compare the Tract Toric UHD vs the Burris. I’ve been watching many of your videos on various scope
Hi Omikurita! I would definitely go with the TRACT over the Burris. Easier zeroing, better reticle, and I think a bit better glass. Hopes this helps and thanks for watching my friend!
Hi Dayattherange! I sold the CZ about a year ago and went with a Bergara, which gave me all sorts of trouble until my gunsmith did extensive work on the bolt. Seems as though every rifle has its issues today! Thanks for watching my friend!
Hi 6Dasher! I am still using it on one rifle and bubble levels on the other two because of other accessories I've mounted. Still love it, but it's funny to see other shooters have the SendIt, turn it on, then not even pay attention to it during the stage. You really do need to train with it if you're serious about using one. Thanks for watching my friend!
I've really been thinking of trying to get into this but it seems like it's a rich person's sport and that the average person like me will never be able to afford it.
Hi JMC! It does seem expensive, and honestly, is fairly expensive. I just bought a new set of golf clubs, middle of the road and 2 year old models and for everything except the putter, I dropped $2k. I was thinking about it on the way home and thought, wow, for what I spent on 13 good clubs, would only get me a decent scope for PRS. From a event cost perspective, I think I said that a centerfire match would run around $185 - $225 depending on ammo cost. That's about three rounds of golf to one PRS match. A 22LR match would run you about $75 - $90 per match, so much cheaper. Sorry I'm drifting here, but short answer is yep, it's not a cheap sport, BUT, I think if you go the 22LR route, it's a lot cheaper and you have just as much fun. Thanks for watching my friend!
@@The4GunGuy Oh I'm going to continue watching. Even going back for your older episodes. Let's say I go into this starting with rimfire. Do you have videos on doing that? Sorry, I haven't checked yet. Would it be a smooth progression eventually to get into center fire? Or if I stay in rimfire, how far does that go? I mean, are there championship matches in that as well? I guess I'm saying that, if I got hooked on this, I would want to become pretty competitive eventually.
@@jmc041071 Yes, rimfire is very competitive with national events. First, go to www.precisionrifleseries.com and for no other reason than to get great discounts on equipment, sign up for their lowest plan, which is rimfire. For $45 for the year, you get great discounts from sellers (see their memberships & rewards listing), which will save you hundreds or even thousands on equipment. I get nothing for telling you to join, I just tell everyone I can for the discounts they get. Then, look up the PRS matches on the site and see which region you fall under and the matches for that region throughout the year. Also, look at the rules so you understand what rifle/scope combo you'll want to look at for the division you want to shoot (production, open, etc...). 22LR is used to get into centerfire because it teaches you the process, positions, movement, wind, etc... at a reduced price, plus, you don't have to get into reloading! Hope this helps.
@@The4GunGuy yes that helps a lot! Thank you! I appreciate any info you can give me. Sorry if i ask a question that you've answered already in a video. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed at all the info im finding and i think I'm getting way ahead of myself and need to slow down a bit lol. I'm in east Texas. Point, TX. I've been on the website of the club or range that you use I believe....looks like it's about 3 hours or so from me. I will definitely get on that site you mentioned and see if there are matches closer to me. I really want to watch a match then later maybe get a loner rifle like you mentioned and try it out. I bet I'm going to get hooked on it as you've said. I've been scrolling through your videos, I saw you moved on from the Tikka 22lr. I'm going to be on a budget. Say 1200-1500. I'll try for more by the time I can purchase but I'm just thinking for right now. Would you still consider the Tikka or are there others now that someone like me should research?
Dude, thank you for this video. I am very interested in entering the PRS shooting experience. I have been researching for a while now and what production rifle I will start with. I appreciate your take and advice on this subject matter.
Hi Brad! Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it. I'm shooting more and more with folks who have gone the MPA production route and love it. For the money, that rifle is hands down, the best first PRS rifle you can buy in my opinion. I mean, it's basically my open rifle with a different barrel, and you'll have no problem competing right out of the gate with it. The rifle as is comes in at 16lbs according to the website, so you'll want to add another 4 - 6 lbs with weights. From a caliber perspective, that's up to you, but I would strongly suggest NOT doing what some have done, starting with something like a 6.5 Creedmoor so you can "get used to recoil". That logic for me is like saying I'm going to learn how to play golf with a professional set of bladed clubs like the pros use...You just wouldn't do it. Start with a recoil friendly cartridge like the Dasher, BR, BRA, GT (faster barrel wear), or even the 6mm Creedmoor, and you'll be very happy. I'm shooting a 6mm BRA and loving it. Well, good luck on your journey and please watch my other videos on shooting your first match and what to expect. Thanks again for watching my friend!
Hi Eric! In total transparency, I've gone to a straight taper barrel now and have removed the tuner. I still think tuners have a place, especially in production or lighter barrels. Thanks for watching my friend!
I am not shooting any type of matches at the moment but I just bought a Bergara B14r and I have an Arken SH4J Gen 2 6-24 on it. I am just starting to dial it in and break the barrel in good but I have great luck with this scope. I never have felt I needed more even on my .308 out to 800 yards. I am trying to keep my scopes as close as I can for standardization.
Hi EP! That's a very good way of thinking about things. I did a video on standardization and for my 22LR and Centerfire Bolt Gun, I'm pretty much standardized now. It makes switching much easier. Thanks for watching my friend!
Hi AC! If you use the right collet to get a snug fit in the barrel, it will be pretty much aligned on the axis of the barrel. Now, with that said, the mounting of your scope is a different story, and that's why we're zeroing the scope. Thanks for watching my friend!
I’ve shot my AR dry as a bone using a sionics NP3 bcg for probably 1100-1200 rounds before putting any oil on it. A dry BCG should not get stuck in the buffer tube. I’d either replace the tube or the spring. If replacing the spring, check out the David Tubb flatwire spring.
I had a Oehler 35 for about 30 years. While the Oehler was THE chronograph. I bought the Garmin Xero. I use a chronograph to keep my air rifle where it needs to be. I can even chronograph my rifles at night.
Curious what that vertical ring is just ahead of the magnification ring. Is it a magnifying glass to see your turret adjustments better? If so, I sure could use one lol
Hi Charlie! It's a magnifier for the turret from MK Machining: www.mkmachining.com/product/gen-ii-pro-series-turret-magnifier/#tube-size. I also use scope tape from IDTS which I can mark on for multiple target stages: idts-dryfire.com/product/ballistic-tape/ Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend!
@@The4GunGuy much thanks. That magnifier will really help me. My 60 year old eyes can see a mile away but my turret is a blur lol. I’ve been running the Gen2 since it first came out and love it, but the parallax on it needs to be continually adjusted. I just got the Gen3 and the parallax is way more forgiving. I guess it’s just the luck of the draw. I was looking at the atacr for my new scope but didn’t like the reticles. Plus I love the locking turrets on the Razors and was disappointed with the atacr not having them. Thanks for your review.
@@charliestoybox2099 No problem, now, that review was a bit brutal on the Razor Gen III, BUT, I'm running two of them now on my PRS bolt gun and gas gun and love them. They fixed everything I mentioned in the video. I sold my ZCO's because I just couldn't justify the cost of them for the bang I got glass wise.
@@The4GunGuy I respect an honest review. Not everyone’s experience is always the same. First time I’ve run across your channel and subbed because of your honesty. Thanks for the link. I’m going to order one of those up. Make that two lol.
Thank YOU for watching another one. I would recommend bolt for your first rifle, less to think about when running it, not as "finicky" as a gas gun, and more accurate IMO. I think the MPA PMR2 is the best thing out there right now because it allows you to run in the production division OR open due to its price. And it has EVERYTHING you'll want. If you want to spend less money, then I'd look at the Bergara PRS Comp or the Seekins Havoc HIT Pro. If you're going to reload, then I'd look at any of those in 6mm Creedmoor or the MPA in 6mm BRA. Hope this helps and email me with any questions...the3gunguy@gmail.com.
Hi NSA! Glad you liked it. I just shot this rifle in a PRS match today, a generally difficult match at another range, where targets are usually 1 MOA. I impacted 1 MOA 800 and 900 yd targets (so about the size of a dinner plate). I missed the 1,000 yd due to bad wind call, but overall, this rifle was great! NO jams, or anything. Thanks for watching my friend!
Hi Andy! Nope, I had used plain old oil, like I've used before. I just remembered I had the Frog Lube when I started putzing with it after I got the old BCG out. So far, FL has worked great in multiple practice and two matches. Thanks for watching my friend!
Hi Easy! Definitely yes. When the mirage isn't so bad (which isn't often at my range), my buddy can spot impacts at 1,100 yds. Thanks for watching my friend!
How do your primers look on the fired cases? I had to swap to a JP HP bolt with my Aero 6.5 build I think the factory firing pin hole was to large causing primer flow and the occasional pierced primer the JP bolt solved the issue.
