I hope I am wrong but looks like she has had a disturbed childhood with all men in her family and around constantly abusing her and throwing their "egos" on her in her growing up years. Grandfather(s), Father, Brother(s), Cousin(s) and even maybe her husband now. Because the number of times she mentions and addresses the male ego gives this impression what she may have had to deal with. I feel sorry for her if it's true. But then it is quite personal and she may not even speak about or admit to it.
Yes, as conditioned souls most of us don t fully understand the words of the pure devotees. i remember when I first heard about Prabhupada s statement concerning how women like men who are sexually aggressive.( around 1982 ) and thinking to myself that it was my lack of Krishna conscienceness that was keeping me from understanding such a heavy statement. For 40 yrs, I was a woman hunter, ( a 2 legged hog ) and had many sexual encounters with many women, short and long term relationships. and yes, many women like men who are sexually adept ( aggressive ) It s just their nature. Btw, I ve been strictly celibate for close to 13 yrs. now, and constantly shake my head in disbelief upon remembering my actions with the fairer sex. Haribol. All glories to Srila Prabhupada Maharaja and Sriman Gour Govinda Maharaja ! 🙏🙏🙏
My take is simply that Prabhupad had personal biases based on his own cultural and life experience. His take on sex was negative and disturbing to anyone who understands real loving intimacy. Evidently an area he was not expert in. Not to say his love of Krsna was not sure. In other words he was not "perfect" and that is fine. Sift out the impurities. Live according to your own values and develop the path we travel
Between feminism and the Vedas I will choose the Vedas any time. Attacking Srila Prabhupada for not being a feminist is ridiculous. Srila Prabhupada did not say any man should be a leader rather he said the leader should be like Yuddhistir, maharaja Parkshit etc. Properly trained Krishna conscious leaders are what he wanted. I would like to remind Sri Garudadas that not all men are fit to be sannyasis. Scriptures are based on generalities, and without that, there will be chaos. For disciples to sit and criticize their guru might be good for worldly adoration but I think it's spiritually suicidal.
This helped me a lot; I've been dwelling on this (the statements on rape) somewhat since my husband and I came across that in Canto 4 recently, as we slowly read through the Srimad Bhagavatam together. Thank you all!
Hare Krishna! Thank you so much for have HG Narayani Devi Dasi prabhu on to speak. I felt so hopeful and humbled by her love of Krishna. Her bravery in serving guru and Krishna inspires me. I pray that ISKCON listens to her and learns from her example.❣🙏
Incredibly inspiring! Thank you! I loved to hear about matajis dedication and faith in taking on the typing Caitanya caritamrita story, and also the story about the bees in Goloka and Vaikuntha!
Wonderful interview! My compliments to the moderator! Such good questions, listening and reflecting back! Thank you Narayani mataji for your lovely humility and scholarship,!❤🙏❤
Prabhupada repeatedly insulted womens intelligence and even said a husband beating the wife will keep her tame. It wasn't a one off incidence he was very against women.
You can word it whichever way you want Prabhupadas teachings are outdated and regressive. Most people who hear his 'troubling statements' are put off Vaishnava philosophy for life. I spent many years as a devotee and tried to convert all my friends but they weren't fools and were very much put off iskcon by Prabhupadas racist and sexist anti science viewpoints. Also just so you know guys saying that his statements were ok because he's a 'pure devotee' again will put millions off the movement. It's good you guys are trying to face these negative things but you need to learn to call a spade a spade. Prabhupada was an ill educated man materially and made many blunders in his work even if he was a pure devotee. He should have stuck with preaching love of God instead of spending countless hours criticising women and scientists and the west. If someone could respond on here to help me understand more about how you can justify prabhupadas words. Thanks hare krishna
This has to be seen in the context of what happened from 1978 until today. The male leaders, male gurus, have - and that's all documented - delivered such a catastrophic performance that we can't even talk about that in kali-yuga women should be considered as less intelligent than men.
The rape statement is often confronting for many. My understanding of this, without minimising what Prabhupada is saying (or defining the statement as only relating to some very sick people), is as follows. Rape means non-consensual sex. Women, when having sex, are actually being used for enjoyment to one extent or another (because otherwise why relate in bodily based, sexual enjoyment?) Its non-consensual because the woman is consenting not to being abused, but to being loved. But having sex is actually a form of abuse to some extent. And yet people (including women) enjoy it, and like it. Therefore women like a man who is expert at rape and they accept that, in other words, women like a man who is abusing them, even though that is not what they are truly consenting to. Based on that reasoning, men also like a woman who is expert at rape because they also consent to being loved, but get abused, at yet they like it.
That women like being raped can be explained by watching animals. A rooster runs after the hen energetically but before she submits. Same with dogs etc. Even among human beings the first sexual act looks like a rape. The male has to show much persistence and forceful action. That's what Srila Prabhupada considers as the woman wanting to be raped. As far as sex is concerned Srila Prabhupada said, " no illicit sex". That was the law for ISKCON. In ISKCON devotees don't go around raping women because Srila Prabhupada said women like being raped. I'm so disappointed people are more interested looking for faults in Srila Prabhupada instead of the immense good he did to the entire world. I'm surprised that even devotees don't realize Srila Prabhupada spoke only according to shashtra. Take for example the fact that women should never be independent. This is exactly according to the Manu samhita. As to racism, don't we remember how Srila Prabhupada was ridiculed by his God brothers for associating with low westerners?. The Purana's say Indians should not cross the Ocean because those there are malechas, yavannas etc. The bhagavat Gita says even women who surrender to Krishna can reach the supreme destination and queen Kunti says women are not intelligent etc etc.. When we condemn Srila Prabhupada, we condemn the Vedas.
@@labanyuh The thing is many people think that "I know more than the scriptures", whatever there is in the scriptures, there is for a reason, we may don't know the reason but that doesn't mean that scripture or that teaching of the scripture is wrong. Scriptures are Bhagavān's words, so indirectly they are thinking I know more than Bhagavān. And the reality is we conditioned souls cannot know more than Bhagavān.
✨"My dear sons and daughters, You'll have to become spiritual master. You, all my disciples, everyone should become spiritual master. ... I hope that all of you, men, women, boys and girls, become spiritual master." • (Vasa Puja Lecture, London, 22/8/1973). ✨A. C. Bhaktivedanta Śrīla Prabhupāda 🙏🏽Hare Krishna 💟🕉
Thank you for facilitating this conversation. Why has the SAC report not been made public? Since it is so emphatically proves that there is no reason why women can't give diksa? In theory, women are supposed to be offered the highest respect as mothers, but in many places ISKCON, and especially in India, the abuse of women is prolific. So, these people who are promoting traditional values are not even upholding the most basic Vedic values of never abusing women and children, EVER! In varnasrama, there would be a zero tolerance for abusers in any form. The Indian leaders would have more credibility if they stopped enabling abusers and paedophiles.
To your point about Srila Prabhupada not differentiating between men and women: I remember reading in one of the books written about Srila Prabhupada..an early female devotee who was a resident and very close to Prabhupada felt that He was dismissive of her and that Srila Prabhupada often spoke " down" when He spoke about women... This woman Devotee went to Prabhupada and told Him how upset she felt... Prabhupada told her that He did not see her as a wan! He saw her as Vaishnavi...
Urmila Devi dasi deserved to die by going against His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, against Shastras, against all previous Acharyas, against Bhagavan Krishna, promoting heresy, deviations, speculations, fabrications called "women diksa gurus"
Hare Krsna! Wonderful devotee! Thank you so much for this! I had the great fortune to know Mataji in San Francisco in the early 1980’s when her son was in my gurukula asrama.
Krishna says - "It is better to do your own dharma even imperfectly, than someone else’s dharma perfectly". So a woman even though may be able to do the dharma of leadership perfectly, she should avoid it because the discerning intelligence (not emotional) of a woman is different than that of a man and hence it is not her dharma. There are male and female dharmas too. Picking these statements of Prabhupada and downplaying their importance will not do, would you downplay other statements of Prabhupada that you think are not so "troubling"? no offences :)
The caramashloka of the Bhagavad Gītā was quoted by Prabhupada more than any other verse in the book: Chapter 18 verse 66, in which it is stated that the ultimate message from Krishna is to relinquish all types of dharma, even one's own, and favor taking full shelter of Krishna. This is the highest calling. And this is pure bhakti. So Prabhupada's very general recommendations for women and his characterizations of their dharmas, ultimately must be understood in relation to this parodharma on which we should focus, and this is what I've tried to emphasize in this podcast dialogue with these two very fine Vaishnavis.
@@GrahamSchweig Does abandoning all dharma mean even abandoning Varna-ashrama dharma? Ofcourse, ultimately we have to abandon all the other types of Dharma, but while we are still in the material world, we are bound to follow dharma or else we will create problems for the world and for us. Abandoning dharma also means eating meat, having illicit sex etc. surely Krishna doesn't mean that. You have to understand the verse as interpreted by our acaryas and gurus. Don't start speculating on it's interpretation.
I think you also have to understand Prahbupada was raised in a time especially in India where it was a aristocratic male dominated society that had different ideals than that of today especially in America.
