This channel dedicated to upload ATC frequency conversations with some realistic visualization. Emergency situations, regular operations and funny exchanges. But also reporting news in the aviation field.
The truth is the majority of Brazilian Pilots don’t have appropriate training, specially in regards English language. There it’s like who you know to get hired to the majors.it’s scary 😟
@@ndub1410 turn.....left.....G..O...L..F.. then... turn... left.. on...to...run...way...4..Left I don't know how hard is it for the Americans to speak 50% slower for foreigners.. ATC has one job.. it's to keep the airport and operations safe using ANY MEANS.. Get the plane to the gate and file a report later imagine TAM is in the air and turned to a wrong heading...
@@JSmith777 they don’t need to speak one word per minute pal. Pilots are required to be at level four English to operate internationally. Level four isn’t talking like they’re a toddler. This airport handles over 200 aircraft per hour. Meet required language proficiency or don’t fly here. The foreign operator fsdo will be happy to disallow them if they can’t meet language proficiency requirements.
@@JSmith777 if atc has to speak one word per five seconds to every foreign pilot, that endangers all the other flights they can’t talk to because the freq is tied up. Just wait until there’s an emergency that can’t get a word in because we are speaking one word per several seconds to every foreign pilot. Hence why proficiency levels are required.
Welcome to NY. Even after the recent runway incursion(s) ground control gives clearances like they are on the job for the first day, don’t ask me how I know. This was a straight forward clearance that was misunderstood due to the language barrier and the speed the clearance was given… Now, if only more pilots would write down the clearances when received… There is work to do on both sides. Unfortunately this happens way too often at the busy airports around the US like JFK, LAX and ORD. It’s like on the road, people have way too short fuses and kick off for anything…
Atc is a dick. Tam first gave a read back that was wrong, Atc just rolled with it, then tam read it back properly and Atc said it wasn't for him. Then Atc gets pissed that tam isn't rolling. Sorry Atc I'm not with ya on this one
Poorly-trained pilot. Directly from the FAA (FAA Order 7110.65U): "Use of the term “minimum fuel” indicates recognition by a pilot that the fuel supply has reached a state where, upon reaching destination, the pilot cannot accept any undue delay. This is not an emergency situation but merely an advisory that indicates an emergency situation is possible should any undue delay occur. A minimum fuel advisory does not imply a need for traffic priority. Common sense and good judgment will determine the extent of assistance to be given in minimum fuel situations. If, at any time, the remaining usable fuel supply suggests the need for traffic priority to ensure a safe landing, the pilot should declare an emergency and should re- port remaining fuel level (in minutes)."
And the nonsense of Ground (ATC) and ramp (Port Authority) not talking to each other makes life unnecessarily difficult for the pilots, especially the ones who operates there a handful times per year.
Very common in the US. Not common in some other countries. Some airports never taxi on a runway. It’s possible that this crew has never taxied on a runway before. Or they just didn’t understand the instructions.
I'm surprised that ATC didn't send both other aircraft around & bring 0KW straight back in when he announced minimum fuel, irespective of wether he declared an emergency. A tighter downwind turn might just have got him onto the runway.
The pilot should be reprimanded. All this passive aggressive back and forth is a serious distraction and safety concern... he needs to remind himself that there are 180 people sitting behind him.
Painful. But JFK really need a plan to deal with "flogging dead horses". Progressive taxi instructions for example. Trying to punish the pilots by just repeating the same thing back just wastes everyone's time.
What I don't get, is why the ramp and ground don't know about each other. I have heard this "are you cleared into the ramp?" so many times... If a plane gets cleared in, that could just be notified to ground electronically with callsign and via which entry, and you would not have these endless miscommunications.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 heard things like this many times now. I don’t get why you need to waste already very busy radio communication channels to effectively relay information between different parts of the same airport operation.
@holylee30 doesn't change the fact that simple instructions like "left on golf left on 4left and hold short foxtrot" should be able to be understood by every pilot landing at an American airport.
They should also mandate that the controllers be fluent in English. Not whatever the fuck it was that this controller was speaking. His very JFK/US-specific jargon was not at all helpful and was super parochial. Totally inappropriate for an international gateway.
He read back "golf uhhh left uhh right" which there was never a right instruction given, he literally didn't read back anything properly even one time lol
Listen to Kennedy Ground on LiveATC during a rush hour - ground could have moved 20 planes in the time it took to have that conversation with TAM and I’m not exaggerating
I am pretty sure that the pilot was not familiar with taxing on runway. He didn’t even imagine, that’s why he couldn’t understand and hesitate to move and finally choose the wrong taxiway. For me it looks obvious, but controller maybe not.
Taxiing on runways is a common concept not just in large planes, but all the way down to GA. when he's reading back things that were never said it's blatantly obvious its a language barrier issue, not a runway issue.
If i was in china or russia and couldn't understand a damn thing the controller said, then i wouldn't taxi onto a runway without understanding 100% that was what was expected. To be fair, russia and china use standard English so there is no such confusion. Japan on the other hand is a whole world of ATC hurt.
@@Mike.The.Jewelerit’s not a language barrier. I’ve seen US pilots not getting things either. What it is, is not paying attention and not writing down the instructions. They were probably talking to ramp at the same time.
I think he didn‘t really talk too fast. He repeated his instructions multiple times and they were still not getting it. We all should not forget that it‘s not only the controllers who should have a proper way of talking. It‘s also the pilots who fly internationally to have an acceptable skill level. You cannot really slow your your voice with every international flight you are talking to and speeding it up again when giving an instruction to a Delta pilot seconds thereafter. By the way: when it comes to language it‘s a lot safer to operate in the US/UK or elsewhere than flying as a pilot in China, former Russia, South America or France, since they talk to IFR traffic in their mother tongue and therefore all the other pilots on frequency have a lot less situational awareness. Besides the language I think the fact that TAM was instructed to enter 4L as a taxiway was never held to be a possible instruction by the pilots. This caused irritation as well in my opinion.
I fully agree. The controller wasn’t talking that fast, and seemed perfectly clear to me. I think you’re right that his instruction to use runway 4L as a taxiway threw the TAM pilot off a bit, but if you’re going to fly into someplace as busy as JFK, you better know how they operate there.
How the hell are people that can’t follow the most simple instructions granted the ability to command an aircraft? “Left on Golf, Left onto 4L and hold short Fixtrot?” “Um, right at Cinnabon, right on broadway and hold short of Nashville.”
@@subaru8548 "The FAA's Aviation English Language Standards (AELS), see Advisory Circular 60-28B, applies to flight students as well as professionals working in aviation. The AELS are modeled after ICAO standards and require a minimum of level 4, or operational English proficiency" Doesn't matter what their first language is, they're required to have a minimum proficiency specifically for this reason.
It is obvious that he was hesitant to enter a runway in order to hold and wait it out there. Maybe the controller should have rephrased "left G, cleared to enter inactive runway 4L, then on 4L, hold short F".
If you are a controller but don’t like foreign pilots, maybe you should consider not working an international airport? It may come as a shock to you but not everyone on the planet speaks ‘Murcan at high speed.
@Sunscreen1973 except in France the language spoken with international flights is still English, its only domestic that use mother tongue. Which a lot of countries especially in South America use mother tongue for domestics. Again, everyone except russia, where the vast majority of controllers cannot speak a lick of English.
@Sunscreen1973 "Pursuant to requirements of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), ATC operations are conducted either in the English language, or the local language used by the station on the ground. In practice, the native language for a region is used; however, English must be used upon request." The issue isn't the language spoken commonly, it's that there is a REQUIREMENT for all atc or international pilots to be able to understand and speak English with "PROFESSIONAL PROFICIENCY"
The other pilots cutting in to explain the situation to the controller suggests to me (in my armchair, obviously) that the controller was perhaps being impatient. I doubt very much the TAM pilot is a stupid man, but the controller was talking to him as if he is.
From my hearing, I’d say it’s the exact opposite. The controller got a little snippy at a couple points, but mostly he was being completely clear. The pilot seemed unable to understand the question, and wasn’t giving the controller the information he needed. The other pilots finally stepped in because they clearly knew what the controller was asking for, and they had heard the ramp give TAM that information. The blockage here was the TAM pilot.
The other pilot was monitoring the gate frequency which the controller cannot hear. The ability to understand and speak English is a minimum requirement for commercial aviation and that pilot was struggling to understand clear, concise simple sentences. This was absolutely not on the controller.
