I really like where you're going with this but it's very hard to follow along through all those course I have the charge controller you have can you just hook a plane input and output to your system and redo the video, When you get a chance just asking I really want to understand what you did. Thank you
Hi, great info. When coupled to the grid and using a string inverter in the Gen port.... If the battery is fully charged will the string inverter carry on producing power exporting to the grid through the sunsynk inverter?
Good question.... I'm not entirely sure but I do know is you can set the gen port to frequency shift which will reduce the generation of the string inverter as the batteries get full. If you'd rather the string inverter still exported when the batteries were full then you'd be better off not connecting the string inverter into the generator port, but just leaving it connected to the supply as normal but selecting "micro inverter" on the SunSynk anyway. This tells the SunSynk to charge from exported power, so as long as the CT is at the origin of the supply, and that is the same supply the string inverter is connected to, the sunsynk will charge from it also.
i am looking for a 'converter' from grid tied to off grid.i have a Growatt min3600 tl-xe/x grid tied inverter and a renogy 2000 inverter,which i use now to power our washing machine in daytime,we also have a off grid battery 170ah,which is charged off my renogy and 2 x 410 longi panels on our shed.like you have done there,or similar,couldi plug the panels into my grid tied,then take the AC outlet to the AC input on my Renogy inverter,to power our extension plug from it?if that makes any sense to you? thanks
Unfortunately that won't work. If you feed solar into the renogy via the growatt inverter the renogy will probably throw an overvolt faulty. If the growatt has an export limitation feature then you may be able to use the addition of generated solar power and renogy inverter power combined. In my opinion I think you're better off having a think about investing in a true hybrid inverter such as a sunsynk or a victron multiplus 2.
Save your money. My SUN2000 got a AC-Shortage after a normal grid failure. Jesudom does not like the send a spare inverter. I had over a month discussions with the seller and stupid questions to prevent garantee. You waste your money with this seller and this inverter. It is not cheap when a device lasts only 3 Month. The internet is full of repair videos of this inverter and when there is a shortage on AC side a contoller is also burned, so you cant repair it. It is better to try another brand from local dealer.
Please could you run through how you would set the sunsynk inverter up as a stand-alone AC-coupled battery charger to an existing system with a string inverter (not using the aux terminals)?
You simply set the AUX / gen port to "Micro inverter". Nothing physically needs to be wired into this port. The inverter will now watch for any power going past the CT and charge the batteries with this power.
Nothing physically needs to be wired into this port. The inverter will now watch for any power going past the CT and charge the batteries with this power
Hi Carl Thanks for sharing this. It seems many have tried this and failed, though you have clearly demonstrated it is indeed possible by using a zero export clamp. As the possibility still exist to backfeed the off grid unit due to time lag etc many years back someone mentioned using a simple "Current limiting light bulb" in the circuit. Wonder whether this could also be incorporated into your idea for extra protection of the off grid unit in particular the capacitors from popping. Hope you can try this experiment in a video for us, it would be interesting as he mentioned using this bulb limiter even without the ct clamp and many grid inverter do not have this function (cheaper inverters).
If no grid is attached do you still need a limiter? The chance of feeding into a grid is zero when its a offgrid system. I still wonder if i can take a 1kwatt psw inverter and hook up 5* 1kw grid tie inverters and then i have a 6kwatt inverter. I unfortunately lack the specifik education in this area to evaluate chance of fire and explosions.
These inverters aren't really a grid tied inverter or a true hybrid. When in "grid mode" the output is simply bypassed to the grid. When in off grid mode the inverter disconnects from the grid and starts generating its own power to the Load/AC out terminal. You would still need a limiter with this setup because if you start feeding back to the inverter, it'll shut down due to overvoltage on the output. Have a look at a couple of my newer videos with the SunSynk/deye inverters.... You can do exactly what you want to with these inverters.
Great video, keep experimenting please! Considering the case where power outages happen quite often during the day when the sun is shining, wouldn't it be better to let that hybrid inverter (with a minimal bank of batteries) form the grid and let a microinverter or a grid tied contribute? If I an not mistaken, any excess produced by the panels should be routed by the hybrid inverter back to the batteries to charge them. When the batteries start getting full and there's still an excess of generated solar power, the hybrid inverter would then start to increase the frequency to a certain value where aforementioned microinverters or grid-tied ones will disconnect. How do you find this kind of setup? Your expertise is super valuable on my decision making process. I am considering that kind of deployment since I face this situation a lot.
Hello, Yes your suggestion will work to a point... On the Deye/sunsynk inverters there is also an AUX port which can be for set for a few different uses - Generator, Load control ( for a water heater) and Micro Inverter. If you physically wire in the Micro inverter / other grid inverter into this AUX input then you can set the On/Off thresholds. I'm not sure if this input is still active when the grid is lost...I will have to try it at some point. The other option you could do is wire your "grid inverters" via a Voltage Sense Relay which is attached to the batteries so when they are fully charged then that relay will disconnected your "grid-tied-off-grid inverter"... I hope that makes sense?
@@roadeycarl My proposal was more targeting islanding while the grid is not available. Hence, I would leave the AUX input (I did not know it actually existed though) free in case in the future I have another extra source like a small diesel generator. In my proposal, the point of common connection between the microinverters and the the Deye/ Sunsynk would be at the output of the latter one. With these configuration, the whole wiring would remain unchanged and the microinverters wouldn't even notice that the utility grid is present or not since it's Deye/Sunsynk who's dictating the frequency of the "new grid". Could you try this setup?
Yes this setup works as it's what I'm currently running on my 8kw inverter. You just have to make sure that the grid tie system doesn't exceed the total AC power rating of the sunsynk/deye inverter.
Thanks for video. I posted a question about simulating grid power for using a grid-tie inverter with solar during a day and and battery at night for my off-grid greenhouse on many channels, but no reply. I am glad to find your video... thanks very much. looking forward for your next video on this subject.
Yes but an UPS are incredibly sensitive to output voltage variation so I would expect it would shut down quicker than the inverter in this experiment. I have recently created a "virtual grid" using a sunsynk inverter... I should make a video on it soon.
In my case I am planning to install only grid tie microinverters. On the other hand power outages happen often hence, I would like to use them even when the grid is not available by tricking them with a very simple fake grid.
Can you provide the Model Numbers for the exact inverters used in this test, as I am unable to tell from the video, exactly which model inverters you are using? Also, you mention an external current limiting sensor. Can you provide a manufacturer and model # for that as well?
@@roadeycarl Ok Many Thanks, also we did not understand when the load is not used does this trip the off grid inverter or when grid tied is turned off it trips ?? TIA
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@Carl Bartlett many thanks, what I want to do is provide a reference voltage from the grid to my offgrid inv to power an immersion heater with minimum current consumption.
Good day Can you test e-bike batteries with this device? Or can you please recommend a device for e-bike battery capacity testing with a PC connection. thanks in advance Oleg
@@olegprotasenko2852 yes it'll do it. Have in mind that 600watts is the absolute max so if you have a 70v battery then you can't test more than 8.5amps. Also, the data logging side is pretty bad. I bought it to log cell data but it's very unreliable. I'd only recommended this for Ah / Wh capacity testing.
I have the same Sun grid-tie inverter, and I'm nervous about trying this, as I've noticed that even with the limiter it will show negative wattage on the display from time to time, and that might fry the other inverter. I'm curious how things have worked out with your setup.
Great video, i was literally just looking for this sort of "is it possible" video lol as i have a DC coupled 400V battery with PV inverter and wanted it working when grid goes down (don't worry i wont forget the automatic grid disconnect) lol
My dear friend.I have the 2 kw on grid tie inverter with limiter from solar company with input solar panel 45-90 volts.Also i have a 5 KW off grid tie inverter with battery as well.Can i use the off grid inverter with the battery to produce my home made small grid.??And for that case could i use extra s.panels for the off grid inverter of 2 kw so they could be equal in power output?? finally could i use the off grid output to ignite and wake up the On grid tie inverter with limiter???Thank you so much.Good productive day....
Hi, Yes you can use the 2kW inverter with limiter and the off grid inverter. The issue you may come across is that when the demand is more than 5kW and the grid tie inverter starts working, if the load suddenly drops very low ( maybe around 1 kW or less) the 2kW inverter may not be quick enough to ramp down it's output so the 5kW inverter will possibly go into overload... exactly as I show in the video. If you want the 2kW inverter to turn on automatically, this can be done many ways. The easiest way is to install an AC Current Detection Sensor.
In this experiment they were both fed from different bench DC power supplies. As the outputs are electrically isolatedfrom the input, you can use the same battery / supply to do this.
Carl or anyone - do you guys know if this thing does all the other tests it is supposed to do judging by the specs - that is ordinary CP, CR, CV, as well as the automatic BRT (automatic testing of internal resistance) and PT (automatic testing of Power supplies)? I am about to buy the 1200W version, which is an even bigger jump into the unknown! PS. Thanks for the demo
Good work! Thank you for sharing. Where did you find the JBD configuration software? Could you please share the location/URL the program can be downloaded from? How did you connect your computer to the BMS?
Nice trial.Friend i have one question.I have a 1000 grid tie inverter which needs grid to work.I want to create my own grid with an off grid inverter and a small battery.Does the off grid inverter needs to be in the same power 1000 watt???thank you.
@@roadeycarl Have you understand the use of the EXTERNAL MODE of this third generation Grid tie iverters with limiter please???With internal Limiter we ensure that no power goes back to grid.Yes.Very useful.Understandable by all i beleive.External Mode ......where is its use?? and what you regulate in the screen????Does it have to do with incoming AC voltage from Generator and you control the Ampere or WATT What...??? In the manual they say soooo little. Thank you very much/
I have been running one of these since 2019 - currently set on 30A on a 48V LIFEPO4 battery system so at peak use can be pushing 1700W - they are solid inverters. I clean mine yearly to keep dust down. I have thought about increasing the output due to the short window when the water heater pulls a large load? Generally chugs along at less than 300W or 900W when pool pump kicks in. Maybe sneak it up to 35A and test it over the winter.
@@stephenmiley5804 Hi - yes its still going strong and set at 35 amps - I am very pleased with this little (clever) unit. I use it with a Make Sky Blue 60 amp SCC and again I have had no issues, its a V118 with wifi. The GTIL's seem to have gone up in price a bit but I suppose everything has but they are incredibly cheap compared to big named makes. I class it as a mid priced good quality unit rather than the cheap end GTIL's. Hope that helps
In the step down dc internal resistance test can you set each step individually to a custom current? All stock images on ali show the same steps of 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.8, 1.2, and 1.8amp. I’ve reached out to the seller but… well… might as well see if you’ve tested that mode and have any input. Thank you!
Second question (sorry) how long does that test take? I don’t see any timing info on the stock screen shots. Ok I think that’s all (it’s probably not all lol)
a cheap way to Start your own solar plant. With Wifi datalogger for a realistic evaluation. Waiting for my second one and happy for every kw/h the Sun is sending to us. thanks for sharing/ regards from Deutschland.
It's hard to follow with all the chords everywhere wondering if you could redo the video put things in Pacific order and explain it step by step on how you did this process I would like to repeat it but it is hard to follow what's actually being done we kind of understood it at the end but you can't reproduce those results if that's what you really want some people don't care if you think it's fake or not we care about if it's real or not we would love to reproduce your experiment maybe some drawings or some illustrations would help thanks anyway not getting down on your video we loved it
I've simply got a grid tie inverter with export limit connected to an off-grid inverter. If you put a load on the off-grid inverter, power is shared between the two inverters. There's not anything more to it than that. The overvolt problem occurs on the off-grid inverter because when the load is switched off, the grid-tie inverter takes a few seconds to react so it outputs a higher voltage than the off-grid inverter can take. This export power caused by the delay would normally be absorbed by the grid without a problem.
So you know this issue with this right? The grid tie will pump up the Voltage when it's under loaded to the inverter, normally up to around 270volts. To stop flow to itself. So that power is dumped back on the inverter, of course the inverter has feedback voltage regulation. So it will turn down the switching on itself to try to lower the voltage to keep it at X which we'll say is 230v. The output caps take a beating on the inverter when there is no load. But the theory is correct. The inverter supplies a sine that the off grid picks up as connected. It pushes the voltage up to power the home over that of the inverter. The inverter sees it's over powering and turns itself down. The easier way to do this is to use a SSR. You have the inverter switch in NO and the grid tie on the other. You hook to the solar as the switch. When the solar comes on and the grid tie. It switches off the inverter (off grid battery). As the solar drops it switches back.. You'll see the topology in most ups (relay sets)
Dear Friend.I have an 1KW grid tie inverter .I seek to create my own small grid in case main grid goes off.Could you tell me the possibility of using an off grid inverter 1 kw or less in order to ignite the grid tie inverter.???What is SSR ?? you mention.Will be pleased to hear your answer.Thank you.very much
Is there any problem in turning the load on while you have already set the current on the tester? Have heard that the MOSFETs may get shorted because of the transient current.
Not that I have experienced. I actually tried this today with 22amps @ 14v and it handled it very well. I probably wouldn't want to do it at the full 40amps though...
Hi Carl You are doing videos on very interesting stuff,, but you really need something to hold the camera,, so you can use both hands,, and have the video shake less.
Thanks very much. Yes you are absolutely right. I need to invest in a better camera with a stand. If you have any recommendations then please do let me know, I don't really know where to start!
What you just demonstrate is a AC coupled system, I have a similar setup with sma inverters. The battery inverter control the pv inverter through frequency shifting to limit its output when the batteries are full and no loads are on. But your version is much more affordable and You could used almost any battery inverters with it. Nice video.
Thanks for documenting and sharing your tests. I've pondered this same scenario. Your demonstration illustrates that you can expect the system to shut down due to overloading. As the the grid tie inverter is normally powered directly from a solar panel, it’s output is instantly effected by changing solar conditions. So when the total system load exceeds that of the battery powered inverter’s capacity, sudden loss of grid-tie contribution shifts all the load to the battery fed inverter. I’m still not sure how large a percentage of the total inverter capacity can be made of grid-tie inverters. For example, since the number of grid-tie systems has grown to the point that it is a non-trivial percentage of the total generation capacity, the utility grid in Hawaii has been encountering significant stability problems (voltage and frequency driven above or below tolerance). If a large number of grid-tie inverters experience shading within a short time span, the utility generation is unable to ramp up output quickly enough to avoid voltage and frequency dropping below tolerance… Then when the clouds pass and the solar input comes online, the voltage and frequency rise quickly. In the case of a micro-grid, even a single grid-tie inverter would represent a much greater percentage of the total system AC generating capacity. However, your test suggests that the grid-tie inverter may be able to stay in sync with an off-grid inverter quite well. I’m curious if the system would remain stable with multiple grid-tie inverters connected and whether the total grid-tie capacity could exceed the capacity of the off-grid inverter. The effects of rapidly changing loads deserves some exploration. Ex. motor starting, switching on/off of large resistive loads To avoid the problem of solar shading, a possible solution may be to feed the grid tie inverter(s) from the battery through a current limiting circuit set to a level that will not exceed the grid-tie inverter’s input rating. The current limit may need to be dynamically controlled depending on the design of the grid-tie inverter… If the inverter expects to be able to ‘pour’ 100% of it’s energy input into the ‘grid’ you can expect the voltage to rise to a point that will cause the grid-tie inverter(s) to detect a grid fault when there is less load than the available grid-tie inverter(s) output. I’m glad you didn’t have any equipment failures, that would certainly be a budget breaker for me.
Yes you are right. while the grid-tie inverter is connected to the off-grid inverter, when there is a load (a heater for example) both inverters work together nicely. As soon as the heater is satisfied and switched off, the grid-tie inverter overshoots(there seems to be few second delay) and makes the off-grid inverter go into " overload". As its the same sine wave it doesn't cause damage but it does make both inverters shutdown . It would be possible to implement a CT with a controller which when there is a sharp change in power, it would equal the last seen power readings by adding in a dummy load like a heater element or other load and ramping the power down slowly until there is equal or less power seen, then it can switch the dummy load off... Maybe I will play with it again soon!
You can measure the the baring with an engineering ruler and make sure it is equal distance at 120 degrees apart. But also, usually there is a cut-out where the bearing sits, so if the casing doesn't fit on perfectly you'll know the bearing is not sat correctly.
very useful reading the comments. My Mum's Potterton Suprima 40 didn't work - slowly flashing orange light. Last year sometimes worked, this year won't work at all. because of what I read here I bought a replacement 0.68uf 275v capacitor to replace the big one at the LED end of the board. Soldered it in and boiler now works. Yipee, less than five quid. (the old capacitor was reading 0.26uf)
This proved to be a very useful video. Many thanks. My Potterton Suprima 50L had an intermittent fault where the gas would not ignite and the lamp would just continuously slowly flash. Eventually it stopped working. I replaced the large 0.68UF, 400V as you suggested, cost £1.89 inc P&P. Now working perfectly. I did order the 2 off ceramics you suggested but could not see them on the PCB, but it would appear I don't need them. Purely for academic interest, why would this capacitor fail? I'm going to order another as a spare, considering the low cost.
I'm glad this video turned out to be more useful than intended. This pcb uses a "capacitive dropper" or "capacitive power supply" meaning, the 0.68uf capacitor is on the mains AC side and anything on the otherside of the capacitor ( the low voltage side) has its current limited by the value of the capactor. When capacitor power supplys are used, you can regard the capacitor as a moving part because AC travels through the capacitor, in turn, slowly breaking down the dielectric material inside it. As the dielectric material breaks down, the current which powers the low voltage circuit gets less and less, causing the circuit to stop working as it should. I hope that makes sense.
@@roadeycarl Hi, many thanks for the prompt reply. Yes, that made complete sense and thanks for the explanation. My boiler is about 14 years old. Would the replacement capacitor have a similar life to the original, or can they fail much sooner? I have further ordered 10 off for £3.99 from ebay will have plenty of inexpensive spares. I see a couple of other 'boxy' looking capacitors. Can I assume they do a different job and are more likely to give long service? In another message you also suggested changing two ceramics 1Kv, 100nF. I can't actually readily find these on the PCB. Is changing these a priority? Thanks for all your help. If possible, I'd definitely buy you a beer.
@@nicky_nike The replacement capacitors will have about the same life expectancy as the original ones. I actually can't remember what the other polyester capacitors do... I think they are mainly filtering and noise suppression but I can't remember. Ceramic capacitors last a lot longer than other types. I think you'd start noticing the boiler playing up before you had to replace these other capacitors. If it was my boiler, I'd only replace them if I was experiencing problems with it. No need to buy me a beer, I appreciate the offer very much though. Just glad I could help you and some other people out!
Great explanation! This is by far the best video out there for those who want to design, not copy this kind o f supply! However, if you'd be so kind I have a few doubts. 1. I will run off of 127VAC @ 60Hz so I calculated a 1uF for 50mA just as an excercise because I have yet to figure out my current requirement. I'm terrible at unit conversions (milli, micro, nano, etc.) so could you double check my maths pls? 2. At half the VAC of your design, do I need to halve the two resistors before the rectifier to 50k and 500k ohms respectively? 3. Is this supply suitable for an LDR --> Schmitt --> TRIAC configuration, or am I going overkill? I'd rather use a solid state relay with histeresis instead of a mechanical relay to switch my mains load and I have no clue how to add histeresis to an AC circuit. I've tried some AC powered LDR + TRIAC circuits, but most of them neglect to mention the relay buzzing at switching time!!
Hi Ryan , 1. You are right with the 1uF capacitor. 2. You may reduce the 1Mohm to 500k, but leave the 100k. this value can be larger if you wish. 3. this is okay for the circuit you are using, most manufacturers will use this type of power supply for applications like yours. I'm not quite sure what your application is, are you just turning a light on when it gets dark? I think you'll be able to use 2 x 555 , to do that. Use one 555 as the comparator for the LDR, and the other 555 as a timer. for example, LDR goes low, output on 555 number 1 goes high, triggers the timer on 555 number 2, then turns on the triac? Just an idea, I'm not 100% sure what your project is.
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! The plan is to automatically switch on a few lights at night. I could go buy this in a store but where's the fun in that? I'm just using a 358 dual op amp, One side as an inverting comparator for my LDR with some added hysterisis and the other side to invert my signal back and get rail voltage out. I'm only using one IC and a handfull of resistors. Pretty elegant if I say so myself! Thanks for your video and help! Wouldn't try this without it!!
