Video channel by Innovative Water Solutions LLC in Austin, Texas that showcases methods of water conservation and stormwater management for your home and business. Our water conservation systems and techniques include rainwater harvesting, graywater reuse, efficient irrigation, and landscape adaptation. In addition, we bring you information about drainage systems and stormwater management including sustainable green infrastructure and low impact development practices. Find out more at www.watercache.com.
IWS is a full-service water conservation, stormwater management, and auxiliary water system design / build company for residential and commercial projects. We create rainwater harvesting, graywater reuse, and irrigation systems as well as drainage improvements and landscape solutions. We perform installation service throughout central Texas, but provide design and consulting services throughout the United States and internationally.
Yes, this was graciously filmed from the audience by one of our equipment suppliers. I am glad they got something because my presentation would not be available for the public if they didn't.
Not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings but just being brutally honest. The takeaway: obviously i would encourage better video and audio. The rabbit hole one can go down making RU-vid videos is endless as far as production and quality. Thank you for your work in this field! Keep up the good work!
@@aaronsalvesen4553 Oh I know. I was just happy that someone filmed it for me in order to get something up on RU-vid that spoke the truth about state laws in regards to rainwater harvesting. There is a lot of crap on RU-vid about government outlawing the practice of rainwater harvesting. While some state and local government do put some restrictions on the practice, there is not one example where a government has explicitly outlawed it in the US. Also, I have learned to not take offense by online comments. Just roll with it. Thanks!
This seems like a great way to store water, I am looking to have a storage of at least 40,000 gallons of water partially or fully underground on the homestead (3 months worth of drinking quality rainwater right underneath the house) do you think this would bear the weight of an 800-1500 square foot house?
also I thought of this before watching the video lol glad someone else has already done something like this... being the first sucks because youre so much more likely to fail
I would not recommend installing a system like this under any structure. While these systems can be installed under parking lots and roads, putting them under a building is not feasible.
How do you deal with sediment on a tank like this? You would never be able to clean out the tank. Am I correct? What was the finished price on this project? I like the idea.
We rely on a great inlet filter to keep the large debris and sediment out. Also since the collection area is the roof of a 5 story building, we don't have to worry about tree leaves, etc, but just have to worry about dust and such. A great inlet filter is vital for a system like this. Thanks for the question!
I just really wish you guys would of spoke to us & told us what's going on, & why your doing what you doing ,& why ,& what kind of material your using , but what I seen I love , it looks really interesting but again muted video
No I don't want to hear nothen from engineer 775 , it drives me nuts that he can't just use his name he has to go by engineer 775 ( WHY ) to me it's just plain stupid , yeah he knows his shit , but I think he's just got a big head , & if I'm wrong ,( my bad ) but it just is stupid to me , he could just very easily use his real name ,& not make it sounds like he's mister important
I don't mean to be "that guy", but are you sure that this isn't illegal in your jurisdiction? Lately local governments have been fining and been arresting people because city governments have been declaring that all falling water within city limits is city property. Really it's just a ploy to force people to have to buy municipal water…
Tommy, thanks for the comment. This answer is a repeat of a previous reply I did to another commenter. There are no states that completely outlaw the practice of rainwater harvesting. There are about 7 states that do limit it but even Colorado, which did use to outlaw, now allows for homeowners to install small rainwater catchment systems. Now there are many states that don't have a law outlawing but they also don't have a law that explicitly says that it is allowed. In these cases, sometimes, local municipalities will put their own regulations out and that becomes the framework that you have to work with if you live in that city.
I'm so glad they didn't clutter up this video with dialogue about the material used, processes, time, cost or anything else. The background music is so much better....
I'm not sure I understand the process. It looks like you wrap the frame completely in tarps but wouldn't that keep water out instead of collecting it? Also, is there any way to estimate how much such a system would collect given X amount of annual rainfall? I am considering a tiny house community and I'd like to consider such a system for it.
The "tarp" is actually a impervious liner material so no water can get through it. We are piping rainwater collected from the building's roof into the "cistern". The liner keeps the harvested rainwater in the cistern. To figure how much a rainwater collection system can harvest, multiply the rainwater collection area (square foot) by 0.623 by the amount of annual rainfall for your area. Thanks for the question!
Nothing will happen. No surface runoff goes into the system. It only harvests the rainwater from the roof of the building. Now if you piss on the roof of the building, then yes, piss may get into the system but urine is sterile so it wouldn't matter.
Thanks for answering (and putting up with) nearly every question there is. Really helpful and informative. This may not be the perfect system for everyone's use, but it is good to get an idea of costs and performance. How big do you think a system like this would need to be to capture about 50,000 gallons a year? Collection surface is about 3,000 sq. ft. If everything is linear I would assume somewhere along the lines of a 7,000-10,000 gallon system. Is this reasonable? Water would potentially be used for irrigation of plants in an urban garden setting.
Thanks for the comment. I really like to respond to the comments here because it can be helpful for people to learn about rainwater harvesting. To size a system, one variable that you didn't include is the average rainfall for your area. If you were in central Texas (32 inches annually), then with a 3000 sf collection surface, you could collect about 60,000 gallons per year. Now, you will probably not collect that much due to the timing of rainfall, usage, etc. For irrigation use, I always a rule of thumb of being able to capture a 2" or 3" rain event in order to efficiently collect rainwater. So in your case, it would mean a cistern size of 5,000 gallons or so. I hope this helps!
The total cost of this system was $65,000 with labor and material. The maintenance requirements would be the cleaning of the inlet filter and maintaining the pump system. A system like this is expected to have at least a 20 to 30 year lifetime.
The plastic used for these modular blocks are not NSF/ANSI 61 approved, meaning the product isn't approved for use in drinking water systems. Thanks for the question.
The plastic crates form the "structure" of the system. The crates have 95% void space so it is relatively a small amount of plastic to hold a great deal of rainwater.
I wouldn't suggest this particular water storage system for potable water supply for a household. One of the main reasons is the cost of an underground rainwater storage versus an aboveground rainwater storage system. An underground system is a lot more expensive partly due to the need for excavation. Another reason why this system may not be appropriate is because it essentially can't be cleaned out due to the plastic matrix that makes up the boxes. Over time, with potable rainwater systems, you will want to clean the tank. I hope this helps. Thanks for the question.
The issue with burying a tank though is that it has to be rated for burial or it will get crushed by the soil pressure. I believe you are asking about the tanks with the metal cage around them that are attached to a pallet. Those would certainly crush under soil load and you would have to worry about all the piping interconnections between those units causing a problem if one of them came loose or busted. Thanks for the question.
This particular brand is called EcoRain and can be found at www.ecorain.com/. There are a few other brands out there as well such as Invisible Structures, Atlantis, and Brentwood Industries.
did not think any make under ground water storage more expensive way jake mace did. In his system take what to tree directly not worried roots. how this do if tree is planted or there roots? say had garden above it. your use hydrant get water out ground?
Again, that is if a well is possible. This was an urban site in Dallas. What if everyone in an urban environment took this stance and all drilled their own wells... that would have a detrimental effect on the local water table, rendering the wells useless. Rainwater harvesting is about the idea of using the resources available on a particular site and not depending on pulling water from elsewhere in the watershed just to keep the grass green. Thanks for the question.
That would depend on how deep the water table is and how deep you had to case. Had two wells on East coast, water table about 100' feet down, only had to case about 60', got good gallons per minute for two houses. Wells about 150' apart. Moved to Southern AZ was told water in my area about 900' + down, casing was a crap shoot. Could invest $10,000. in 1998 $'s with no guarantee of finding water. Same story from multiple drillers.
Try to understand ancient rain water harvesting technique of india at Amber Palaces, Jaipur Its called stepwell. I was amazed by the beautiful structure. See the details - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ECGS9RAJqrw.html
Very interesting. Have you thought about running the water through a slow sand filter before it goes into the storage? A slow sand filter requires very little maintenance, and no chemicals to operate. 99.99 percent microbe removal. A small solar powered recirculation pump can also be used to keep the filter alive during dry spells. Google slow sand water filter. Lots of info available. Even with a small slow sand filter and moderate flow, 30,000 gallons would not take long to fill. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks.
While there is definitely a possibility of adding a sand filter to a rainwater system, the best place to do that is after the storage volume, when you are pumping the water to use. The issue with using a sand filter to filter the rainwater from the roof is the flow rate required to collect the rainwater without causing waste. As you pointed out, it would take maybe 2 or 3 weeks to filter 30,000 gallons of rainwater. Where would that rainwater be stored while waiting for the rain to be filtered prior to entering the rainwater storage tank? Off this roof, there could be flows of up to 350 gallons per minute of rainwater flowing off this roof.
Ok, you are right. 350 gallons per minute would easily overwhelm a small slow sand filter, even a relatively large slow sand filter would be overwhelmed by that flow. Your storage system looks really nice. Thank you for posting it.
I would worry about the longevity and the cost per gallon over time. It only takes a tiny hole in that plastic to lose 3.7 crap tonnes of water. Plus water is $1.50 for 1000 gallons. That's right I said 1000 gallons. That's means a complete bottom to top fill for this thing would be $45 of tap water. At $65000 would have to fill it 1444 times (43.3 million gallons) to break even. This doesn't include maintenance. Not to mention there is no way to repair it if it develops a leak. If you absolutely HAVE to have an underground rainwater tank I think an underground fiberglass cylinder tank or a concrete tank with a polymer liner coating would be cheaper and would be patchable from the inside of it developed a leak.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, I would be worry about the liner developing a hole, but with the recommended installation method by the manufacturer, that chance is lessen due to the thickness of the liner and the special backfill requirements. But the chance is still there. As for the cost of water, that is a debate that has many factors that are hard to bring out here. Rainwater systems do have long paybacks if you only compare to the implicit cost of water now. When you bring in other factors to the analysis, rainwater can have just as good or better paybacks than solar. As for using another tank material, you are definitely correct about fiberglass or concrete being a better material if you don't want to chance a hole but you will not get a 30k gallon underground fiberglass or concrete tank for less than $3 per gallon. So that would make just the tank cost around $90k and that doesn't include the excavation or other costs. Bottom line, there are lots of options, tanks, and decisions that need to be made by the project owner to determine what is the best rainwater harvesting system for them.
Our portion which was the installation of the rainwater collection modular units and the installation of the pump system costs around $50,000. We did not have the excavation and backfill or the roof drainage pipe installation from the building. If I would estimate those parts, I would think it would have added about $15,000 to the cost of the system for a total of $65,000.
+Javed Hossain The best thing to do to get more information about these particular crates is to visit www.ecorain.com. You can also call the manufacturer to get spec sheets, etc. Thank you!
+Manan Gandhi Maybe so. I am not arguing with you there but any sort of water storage, water distribution, and water filtration requires plastics, not just for rainwater but also municipal water supply. And the municipal water supply market is WAY bigger than the rainwater harvesting industry is and probably ever will be. Thanks for the comment.
+Fernando Cosso Yes, I never got back to the site to get a picture after the grass had established itself. It would have made for a better ending. Thanks for the comment.
+Spiorad Krieger Yes, but underground systems on a residential project can be rather pricey when compared to an aboveground system. Now if surface space is a premium then, yes, an underground system may be worth it.
+jason mooney Again, the issue in using milk crates or 2 liter bottle holders would be structural. If you were doing this system in your backyard, then there would be no issue using milk crates, but when you do a public project then there are liability issues to consider. The EcoRain system is specifically engineered for the purpose of storing water underground whereas milk crates are engineered to carry milk cartons.
Coming from a cold climate, heating is my idea. Another potential use for this is as a thermal battery. Water is an excellent heat retainer. If you look at communities like drake landing in Alberta (google it, very interesting concept) they use thermal solar community heating and compare the cost of drilling boreholes in rock as a thermal battery to using a much smaller pool of water it might make it possible to do things like drake landing in areas without perfect underground rock like they have there. Water holds heat 4X better than rock, but if you insulate the pool as well, as the bore holes arn't insulated, accounting for heat losses a cost comparison might be close, but better yet it makes things like drake landing possible anywhere, you don;t need great underground rock structures and water table isn't an issue so much. Something to look into......
+KarasCyborg Our portion which was the installation of the rainwater collection modular units and the installation of the pump system costs around $50,000. We did not have the excavation and backfill or the roof drainage pipe installation from the building. If I would estimate those parts, I would think it would have added about $15,000 to the cost of the system. Therefore, the system would cost about $2.25 per gallon.
+Cross Connection Control I guess it is really how you look at it. Typically people want to know an installed "per gallon" cost in order to figure out their capital budget for these systems. As for a maintenance cost, if the system is designed correctly, it should only require a few hours of maintenance per year which is mainly cleaning the inlet filter and testing the pump system. You might want to factor in replacement pump costs over the years since that is the mechanical "bottle-neck" in this system. So really you should have about $500 worth of maintenance per year on a system of this size. Thanks for the question!
There is a drinking water standard- NSF 61. Chemicals leaching from the plastic- not good. Especially if the rain is acidic or contaminated with bird poo, etc Even if one does not use this system for drinking or showering- lining and crates are still able to deposit harmful chemicals, lead, plasticizers, etc into your soil when watering it and transferred to your lawn, vegetables, your skin and lungs by the wind action and rain splash blowing dust in the air. Maybe good for firefighting if you live in the woods, but you'd better off creating a pond lined with clay- probably cheaper too. Not even taking in consideration the pitfalls of install: it will leak eventually if it is good, or soon after if it is bad install : freeze/thaw cycle, contaminants which will leak through (oils, gas, etc), acids and microbial action in the soil will deteriorate the lining
+2451329 While your points may be valid in some respects, the harmful issues of rainwater harvesting into a stable HDPE plastic storage system is far outweighed by simply you breathing in air pollutants present in our air throughout the day... day in, day out. I get the fact that plastics can leach chemicals into water but remember every plastic is different in terms of how much it leaches into water. So you can't simply lump all plastics together on this point. Every decision we make in our daily lives, has some sort of environmental effect, whether good or bad. Simply look at the choice at a supermarket... paper or plastic. Thanks for the comment.
Long ago, I came to the conclusion that any water falling off my asphalt shingle roof was already "toxic" and flowing onto my plants anyway. So I use collected roof water for irrigation with no concerns.
+Mario Babic There are many different versions of this product, produced by different manufacturers, in different countries around the world. So depending on distribution, many products you find on the internet may not be available locally. Also, while being able to clean out the storage system is a great benefit, if the system collects relatively clean rainwater from a roof (versus relatively dirty rainwater directly from a parking lot or street) and has an adequate inlet filtration system, you really shouldn't have to worry about cleaning out the storage system. Thanks for the comment.
What about the quality of stored water because it is stored underground without aeration? How long water is stored in this system? What about the stability of the external load on this material (men, material, vehicles etc)
+Pari S It depends on a few different factors. One of the biggest factors which will depend the quality of stored rainwater is the presence of organic matter like tree leaves, twigs, pollen, etc. If organic matter can be kept out of the cistern and potentially the collection area, the stored rainwater can last for a long time. Also, the point of a rainwater harvesting system is to actually use the water. Regular use and turnover of the water should prevent any quality issues. As you can see from the video, we used a bobcat to backfill over the underground cistern and the material is designed for traffic loading.
Thank you for your reply. But still I have doubt about presence of micro organisms in such tanks. Can you comment about storing runoff water into such tanks? Rainfall is less, evaporation is high in GCC countries, In such cases, is this feasible to locate this type of underground tanks?
+Pari S There is definitely microorganisms in the rainwater... the question is are they a certain type that can cause an illness if digested and what is their concentration. Ever though that are many microorganisms that can be in the rainwater, you have to worry about fecal coliform and E.coli since that is the most dangerous organisms that could be in rainwater. From our tests, there is just not a high concentration of either in stored rainwater. When you think about it, any bird or other animal droppings on a roof are blasted by the sun's UV rays all day long so we have only found a minor level of E.coli (indicator of fecal coliform) in stored rainwater. Now, there is always caveats and depending on the collection surface, you could have large concentrations of E.coli and fecal but if collecting rainwater from an elevated surface, that is highly unlikely. Also if one is only using the stored rainwater for irrigation use, they the microorganism level is not a major concern.
This is pretty interesting. I would not have thought that that much fill and a construction machine could move about on the top of just a plastic crate filled void? How could this volume compare with buying the equivalent volume in cisterns and burying them. How long have the pilot projects for this been around now. Any problems? Earthquakes, settling ground, too much weight on top, collapses? Definitely a cool idea.
justgivemethetruth In comparison to underground cisterns, this system can be a cheaper alternative, but it depends on the volume desired. If you only want a few thousand gallons then an underground poly tank or two will work. The largest underground poly tank is around 2500 gallons. The other underground cistern options are fiberglass or concrete (either tanks or cast-in-place). The great thing about this modular system is the cost savings of shipping big empty tanks to a job site. This type of system has been around for some time. Obviously, as with any other structural system, the site should be analyzed to determine if this is the best solution.
Innovative Water Solutions LLC At what volume does this start to make sense, and what about comparisons of repair and maintenance, or breakage? Is there enough of an install base of these things to tell how well they work in the long term?
justgivemethetruth Something under 10,000 gallons of storage may be less expensive to use multiple underground poly tanks than this modular system. We have only gotten the opportunity to install 3 of these systems (we don't do many underground installations here in Austin due to the presence of bed rock close to the surface). I think that if care is taken in the installation of the base materials and the backfill material around the units, then you can minimize the danger of a leak in the liner.
+dethmaul The roof of the building is what is collecting the rainwater so there will be a minor amount of dirt but not much. What we didn't show in the video is an inground inlet filter that the rainwater collection pipe from the roof goes through before connecting to the underground tank system.
E Devos Thanks for the comment. This music was created by the band of one of our long time employees. We wanted to showcase their music as well as rainwater harvesting. It is typical to find many people in Austin, working their day jobs, but also are part of a band or aspiring musician. We just wanted to support them in anyway we can.
+Innovative Water Solutions LLC I personally liked the music, and I reloaded this video just to find the artist info. Two thumbs up =-) Please pass it on to the musician.
I don't know why a large big box store or similar building wouldn't install these to save on landscape irrigation water costs, toilet flushing etc... Brilliant!
Bob Wood Yes we think that same way. Actually it comes down to commitment and the price of water. If the building owner isn't committed to conserving water no matter if it does pay off now or later, then they certainly won't employ rainwater harvesting. They will have the federally mandated water fixtures (water conserving) installed in the building and leave it at that. Also, since the price of water is so relatively cheap (yes even in drought stricken California water is still cheap but it may be rationed out for the use of irrigation purposes) it doesn't push building owners to think about using rainwater harvesting systems to reduce their water use. Thanks for the comment!!
Innovative Water Solutions LLC Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big tree hugger but I do see the advantages of a system like this and the use of solar and wind energy. Imagine if the roof of each Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, large school buildings etc. were covered in solar panels, especially in highly sunny areas like the south west. Every bit helps, even domestic rain barrels or similar rain catchment systems. Keep up the good work.
Bob Wood Oh, I think about their potential every single day. Those larger roofs could become water and energy generators for their localized area around the buildings because they would probably harvest more energy and water than the actual building needs. It would be great for the environment but maybe the energy and water providers would have a different opinion since we wouldn't be purchasing more energy and water from them.
What's the liner made of? I guess I'm curious how water-tight it is. Or perhaps it's expected to leach the water slowly into the ground? Would building a system like this in a small scale like 1000 gallons be more cost efficient than getting a pre-molded underground tank?
The liner is made of polypropylene. It is definitely watertight. You can design these systems with just a geotextile layer on the bottom so that the collected water will leach slowly into the ground. In terms of the costs difference between this system and a pre-molded underground poly tank in the 1000 gallon range, I think the pre-molded tank would be less expensive. This system starts to work out economically when you get to volumes over the typically range of pre-molded tanks.
