A fourth, less discussed, response to trauma is called fawning, or people-pleasing. The fawn response is a coping mechanism in which individuals develop people-pleasing behaviors to avoid conflict, pacify their abusers, and create a sense of safety. So for 9s people pleasing could be a strong childhood trauma response.
Thank you for this. Fawning has become more a part of our understanding and I appreciate your foregrounding it. I'd also like to throw in something else worth considering: these may not always trauma responses. Sometimes they are born in a natural mammalian/human desire for safety and security , power and control, and affection and esteem. We long to connect so sometimes we may fawn or we long to feel secure/ safe so sometimes we may fight or flee. While I am trauma informed and trauma trained, I'm mindful of how some aspects of our responses are less aspects of trauma and are born in innate aspects of mammalian/human core needs. I say this because I want to depathologize and normalize some of our natural human proclivities...it's hard to human and we are all in this together as a matter of course. Thank you again for talking about the fawn response!
So in that view people pleasing is more just a part of temperament? Character disposition? And main needs?. I had a narcisstistic mother, she expressed her anger often and directly, her attitude was my way or high way, she always was telling me you are so, you are too sensitive. So I was considering if people pleasing is my defense mechanizm? Or it is part of my temperament?
@@evbemma33 That's my thought...I am concerned the word trauma is overused. (And I used to be someone who enthusiastically embraced the understanding of trauma and couldn't wait until it was normalized). There is small "t" trauma and big T trauma. I have seen a slide into a tendency to pathologize being human and pathologize others in our lives. It divides us against each other and divides us into victims and perpetrators. We *all* are adapting to experiencing the slings and arrows of being alive in this world. It has been this way since the beginning of time. Depending on our somatic makeup, our bodies may experience slings and arrows as a small "t" trauma, but I am careful about pathologizing/labeling people with diagnoses. Imagine if I were your friend, partner or daughter saying your people pleasing is a pathology...or saying something pejorative like pleasing others is fake or all about you. In *your* experience, you're simply adapting to a world where conflict feels overwhelming to your entire nervous system because your system tends to be more sensitive to discomfort. These are mammalian adaptations that even four legged mammals experience. In that context, you are seen as a fellow human...it softens our hearts to each other. Also, it helps us understand each other For you, you can see yourself as a human who's working on building sturdier inner boundaries. You can practice could be breathing inside yourself ("coming home") and practice feeling your own power rather than reflexively people pleasing. (When I work with 9s on this, we work somatically). Can you feel the difference between this context rather than people pleasing as a pathology or trauma response? (That's not to say people pleasing is *never* a trauma response..but sometimes it's simply a kid using a workable strategy to adapt to the herd). Our parents didn't have this understanding. They were adapting too. They didn't know what we know about emotional regulation and didn't have tools...and even if they did, they were living in a cultural time where different things were valued and they were trying to adapt as well. My parent's historical context was so different from mine! It helps me give them grace from this context. Even more, we are shaped not only by our parents, but by social groups, historical forces, cultural context, economics, geographical landscape, etc. Putting all that together helps us see that life is a LOT there are many forces we're dealing with. It's profound to me and opens us to compassion. Anger and numbing (the way a 9 experiences anger) is a protective defense against feeling vulnerable or overwhelmed by the world. If this is our adaptive strategy, sensitivity must be "fixed." The world may eat you alive if you live in a cultural context where sensitivity is seen as weak rather than as a strength as it is now. We're constantly evolving our understanding of the human condition.
I’m a 5. My mother in law is a 9. I adore her. I’ve also worked with her so I really know her. Everything you said was spot on. Here’s something I’ve been curious about…how many 5’s are INFJs like me. Is it common for 5’s to be INFJ personalities?
I am a 7 married to a 1. This video is helpful for both types. From this video, I learned ways I can draw out my type 1 spouse's inner 7. For instance, I can ask her if she'd like to go to a new restaurant or hiking trail that I've scouted out. I'm often getting her to try new products like new shampoos, soaps, peanut butter, brands of ketchup, etc. (I am a 7 who does the majority of the shopping, because I love discovering new items). My spouse asks me to go to lunch all the time, haha. We feel very compatible, I think because her best self thrives on my openness to new ideas, and my best self thrives on her ability to feel passionately about values and give her entire attention to something she believes in. Her anger, even when it's not helping her, helps me express my own anger, which I'd rather stifle.
I've been saying i am a temporary golden child. I've always been good at overachieving as long and for as long as it is interesting to me. Does that sound more like a 7 instead of a 3? I have a internal despise for other 3s and 7s (some, not all) btw. With 3 I know exactly What they are trying to achieve and it seems to sad, and with 7s usually too predictable, at least the ones that are overly indulgent.
You hit the nail on the head in the beginning. Especially when I was younger (and even now) I’m painfully aware of how powerless I feel sometimes. I’m genuinely saddened to hear that even my supervisor feels scared around me. I mean, I get angry, sure. But I’ve also had to do a lot of work not unintentionally scaring people. I feel a lot of compassion for people, usually. I guess the outer shell is there to protect it.
I'm an 8 and I hate when others use ambiguous language or validate themselves using reasons that aren't grounded in reality. I understand that life is nuanced but nothing bothers me more than someone describes something so loosely like they don't really care to form a strong, knowledgeable opinion about something. I prefer to surround myself with people who are honest about their flaws and are very opinionated.
Any advice for 5w4 finding love? I've heard 7s are good types for us. And while I do have great attraction to 7s. I also feel safe with 9s. Been working through a lot to understand that I'm allowed to fall in love with someone. But I don't know who or where to find her. I'm pretty afraid of someone dominating me. I hate 1s with a passion. All the rule keeping that turns to wrath upon you for violating their rules and hard core judge your peculiarities. I like 2's as well as my brother is a two and we tend to get along. Had good friends who were 7s. 1s always did the most harm to me. I feel like a 4 would be cool since we share numbers but because they're connected to the 1. I'm not sure if that would be healthy. 7s also can be tricky that way, as when they're stressed they go to the rage and judgement of 1s. But the 9 and 2 can also touch the 1 as well. Part of me wonders if an 8 would be better but if the 8 is dominating, I wonder if that would block my integration to 8 rather than bring it out. Lol sorry I'm 5-ing it up right now lol.
So much of my experience as a Five involves hiding in plain sight. I do it so often I forget I'm doing it. When I can let go of my planning and philosophizing I'm forced to exist is in my body and in this moment. But it's in my body and in this moment that I'm fragile, hurtable, knowable, and killable. So I try to hide in plain sight again, blend in and conform. If no sees me no one will bother me, let alone hurt me. It seems aggressive to not blend in. Like having a physical form thats independent of the social pattern around me is a threat. Like I'm saying, "Look at me! Come at me bro! I ain't blending in to the pattern!" That kind of physical presence feels like it will be exhausting. AndI feel like I should know something is I have a physical presence. That I'm confident. That I can be relied upon. That I can fight for something. Die for something. But in my head I am always only half convinced on most topics. So I say to myself I will have a physical presence when I know enough. But I never will know enough.
Interesting stuff! Im a male 4, wife is 8. The only thing not dead, spot on is she's more of a simmering anger. Definitely enjoys control and has high standards.
Hi fellow 9's! Another 9 reporting in here (9w1). Leslie, thank you for this awesome explanation! The numbing out, the tension from struggling against life, the lack of humor and free expression...these traits have defined most of my life experience. The most pain has come from not feeling like I am normal, and not being able to respond as relaxed and confidently and playfully as I wish I could when dealing with other people, which has sometimes caused me to be treated negatively. I have noticed that the numbing out seems to particularly bother certain other personality types. Those who require more engagement and extraversion quickly tire of me. I am mid-30's and I have never felt I dealt well with being how I am until recently. Before I learned of the enneagram and other models of personality psychology I felt that something was really wrong with me. Others tend to say, "you need to relax", or "your such a downer", or just laugh at me, or think I talk funny because sometimes I do speak loud or sound strained without intending to-when I finally do enter a conversion. It's caused me to be seen as timid, weird, and once in a while others bully me. One time I even had faculty member of a career/educational program asked me to leave their program. At this point in my life, I can honestly say that I am fine with how I am, and I completely accept myself, but I do feel like my awkwardness has caused me to miss out on a wider variety of social experiences and relationships because they failed to launch after several interactions. I agree with a lot of other things that were mentioned. I am grateful that my core group of mostly childhood friends accepts me and loves me how I am. ONE THING that I felt improved my functioning a lot was drinking a heavy metal detox smoothie daily for many months.I drank this smoothie In order to remove mercury and fluoride and other contaminants out of my brain which I learned were interfering with normal brain functioning and neural impulses (this teaching is not from conventional medicine who hardly know anything about mental illness or chronic illness). I also started a diet to starve and kill of Epstein Barr virus which was causing other symptoms. Those last pieces of information were all taken from 'The Medical Medium Anthony William'. Check out his books!
I am either a goal oriented 7 or a scattered 3. Definitely head type. I struggle so much to quiet my inner monologue. But I hate parties and rarely go on adventures… I wish I could be a 7 wing 3 but that doesn’t exist in the Enneagram.
Thank you, this was helpful! I was wondering if my friend is a 5 or a 9 and now this declared it that I think he is a 5. 🙏 I have a 9 partner though and these two people are somewhat similiar but (well, of course) very different also. My friend isn't even interested in the enneagram much, but I am, so I had to investigate his type. 😂
That’s the kindest description of a 5 I’ve encountered, so thank you. I’m constantly told; I believe all of us 5’s are told, that we are cold, detached and unfeeling which couldn’t be further from the truth. However, other peoples demand of my emotions can feel absolutely suffocating at times, especially when it’s demanding more of me when I am already giving all I have. I love with everything I have but am constantly told I don’t love or feel enough. This has been throughout my childhood through all relationships with exception of my husband who is a 1. I prefer to be alone in my own space but am never happier than when I see my son and family happy and thriving. Of all the ennea numbers I find the least information on 5’s and dare I say, least accurate. I wonder if other 5’s have found the the same?
Fully agree. 5 info seems sparse and many of the people who make content on Eneagrams seem to be so extraverted and unintellectual that 5's seem unrelatable to them or they struggle to explain them from a personal viewpoint. This has made it hard for me to learn more about myself but I dig this channel's descriptions of 5's.
I do not think Enneagram 8’s realize how strong they appear to others. I’m an Enneagram 8 and I have no idea when I appear too strong or too demanding of others. I do know when I want something to happen my way or when I want people to do things my way. But in emergency situations, Enneagram 8’s are the only people who will take charge, manage the crisis and save lives.
I'm delighted to find a fellow Enneagram enthusiast with an Integral background here on RU-vid, and unlike many RU-vid Enneagram personalities, I enjoy you. However, I notice you tend to talk in absolutes where speaking of tendencies would strike me as more appropriate. As a sx/so 5w4 548, I notice much of this video does not describe me or what to expect in relationship with me. As a child, I never saw my parents as too much or too little. I rarely sought any time alone. People in relationship with me by no means need to be prepared to carry the conversation. I can do that just fine. I'm also fine discussing subjects I know little or nothing about. I absolutely do not compartmentalize my friendships. Never did and never wanted to. (Sexual-socials can be natural ringleaders.) (Funny you mentioned rowing, though, as I was on the crew team back in college.) I can be very expressive emotionally. I see no human being as self-sufficient. My romantic relationships often have a johnandyoko pattern where independence and time spent separate are largely felt to be undesirable. (I believe John had the same stacking and tritype.) What's true for me is, I'm very sensitive, I can keep a level head when others can't or don't. I'm attuned to language, not as a way of avoiding emotion in charged situations, but as a way of achieving clear communication. As a sx/so with 4 and 8 fixations, I can be powerfully emotional and expressive, but it's also true I'm aware of this "isolation of affect". That is, I can be somewhat detached from these emotions at times.
Based on your description I easily see myself as an 8. My behaviour for the past years has been 5´ish, but if I had a penny for everytime someone calls me intimidating I would be rich- Btw, among other reasons, the withdrawing has also been an unconcious attempt to fix the intimidating part, it has never worked.. if anything that has made me appear more snobbish.
I’m a 1, and in the last two years I try to actively find the gray in every situation. There are some situations where I don’t and don’t even see that I’m still thinking black/white. I wish I didn’t just jump to what needs to be improved. For example, my mom is a 2w3 and someone called her a sweetheart (she is), but my tendency was to say “yes, but she also expects that same treatment in return without asking.” 😅 I instantly started beating myself up over saying that out loud. I immediately saw how awful that sounded. It’s exhausting being a 1 but I also love that I am principled for the sake of being principled. I admire that in others so I choose to admire it in myself. It’s funny, as a 1 I have to also actively practice not being perfectionistic. I’ve learned to ignore my typos and embrace them. I’ve been on a 7-like streak recently which always makes me happy because I view it as me becoming healthier.
I scored 80% 5 & 71% 9. Years ago I was a 9. I went through a healing process and set boundaries now which is pushing me into the five category. I feel more of 9 than a 5.
Our family has all the harmonic groups represented, so sometimes our interactions turn into pristine textbook examples. Once you see it, you cannot unsee it. xDD
Kia ora from New Zealand. I'm a type 5w4 but also 9w1 interesting combination. A INTJ on myer briggs personality. So I'm not a people person and this explains why I put my foot in it alot
Love your input . Couldn’t decide whether I was a empath or a narcissist alone an empath a kind person who loves and understands the world around people a narcissist a person who can’t tolerate other people invading my space interrupting my thoughts intruding on my journey basically the kingdom of God is within I think number five have that I’ll figure it out
Please five don’t like to share themselves they don’t wanna share their thoughts their energy there are motions we just don’t like to share we like to analyze and process and protect our space there is no friendship that will be more valuable to us then just our own free time will be
That phrase I’m afraid of love as lame as it sounds that must’ve been created by a five because I’m am afraid of the closeness it will try to consume me it will try to take over my thoughts my energy when I feel like the journey here for me is to fill my life out make sense of it gather information I really I love everyone but I don’t really want to be attached to anyone because it just drains me
Thanks for the video! It cleared up my confusion between being a 5 or a 9. I am told I come off as intimidating or aloof when people don't know me. Otherwise it's the opposite. My family and friends would say I'm a relaxing presence. Maybe it's actually for the same reason as people who don't know me think I'm aloof. If I walk around containing my energy maybe that relaxes people I know because I'm not putting my stress or worries on them. Hmmmm.... I feel like I just had an epiphany.
8 here- I love this so much! I always hear about unhealthy portrayals of 8s, and this was such a balanced take. I’d also like to add the joy of having someone you can be emotional with. Being the safe person for someone who is normally guarded with military precision is amazingly refreshing
3:40 is so accurate I had to tell my friend at college that because he was being kind of intrusive and that’s how my mom was when I was a child so it was annoying even though he meant no harm
I know only that I am an INFP. I am having trouble determining whether I am an Enneagram type 4 or 9, though. I can relate to different traits of both. I can identify with the artistic, individualistic traits of the type 4, and like type 9, I seek peace and harmony. I'm conflict avoidant, but I also need to be authentic and resist assimilation with any group that doesn't share my inner values and desires. I won't argue and struggle with others as much as possible, but I won't "go along to get along" either. I just hold on to my truth and do what I need to do in most cases. I have a quiet way of expressing myself, but I won't change who I am and what I want to please others, either. Is this more of a type 4 or type 9 quality? Any illumination on this question would be greatly appreciated from anyone who knows the Enneagram better than I do. And thank you for this video, which really has me pondering how I should identify myself in this fascinating spectrum of personality and existing as a human in a very frequently confusing world. 💕
Hi Leslie, I think I'm a 469 and I've always been called intense during conflict. To me I have the best intentions, even yesterday I heard myself say to a coworker "I'm not intimidated by the truth" 😅 quite counter-phobic of me! Anyway I was just wondering if you had any tips to manage that intensity during conflict in a way that honours it but is more likely to achieve the desired outcome? Thanks so much, I love your content!
❤️ I love your content Leslie! You have such an inspiring perspective. Please post more. And if there is another venue other than you tube where you regularly post/speak/share, please let me know where it is so I can subscribe. Thank you. ❤️ -a Fellow Seven struggling toward Health. 🤗
