Welcome to the new Empirical Audiophile cannel on used top end stereo equipment. After 50-years of being an audiophile I thought I would give some information on just how new audiophile can have great equipment, yet without breaking the bank to do so. Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it is out dated or doesn’t sound great. I most cases older equipment from high-end manufactures sound as good or better than the new equipment presented today to audiophiles but without the cost. You will find out from an aerospace mechanical engineer just what equipment is worth your time to audition, how good it’s made and can it be made better to meet today’s audiophiles needs.
Why, why? Why, after you invest in a good quality speaker would you want or more importantly need a sub-woofer? If you need one then you didn't buy a good quality speaker!
Agree 100% I like bass even if it's reinforcing existing frequencies a little. Taking stress off the main speakers makes sense. I am sure after hearing some very high end speakers with subs properly dialed in adds to the imaging. I run Altec 604 -8 and I added via an active crossover a pair of JBL 2226H in Jbl cabinets. Even with 200 watts per channel in a medium sized room running them there is more than enough bass. The Altecs had a helper woofer in one or two of their big studio monitors. At a hifi show I heard a decent set of bookshelf speakers with and without a little 8 inch high quality subwoofer. The midrange etc seemed more relaxed as well as a more fulsome bass was achieved just by switching the sub in. Wire and crossover upgrades make perfect sense. I like stereo subs for headroom and like you say they are relatively cheap.
Nice subject. I now use subwoofers in my stereo set-up. I think I would never go without them now. It just sounds fuller overall and I know I’m hearing some low notes I wouldn’t on my bookshelves. I also like that sub takes over the heavy lifting, relieving undue strain on my mid-woofer. Thanks for the video. 👍🏼🎶😎
I love subwoofers. 2.1 is the way to go if you ask me. You get it all. Beautiful mids and highs and a full bottom end. Low powered tube amps and a good horn loaded speaker with a sub woofer is my favorite sound signature. I’m in total agreement with you.
You have a point that it is "just" to add subwoofers..🎉 Note that the all that Hz talk has no bearing without define what + or - dB at the frequency..😢 But that stuff above is in my opinion not the important stuff at all.😂❤ Yes I make sure that my subwoofers can go 20hz and below at any level of (dB)!🎉 For ME the sound quality is number ONE for all frequencies that my ears are able to hear. So the system SUPPORTING my hearing as a minimum.🎉 All that focus on lascala or Cornwall is a waste of breath when focus should be on sound quality and not what klipch model to have. Or potato potahto..😅 Let us look at sound quality instead.🎉 OK then we need to look at what speaker enclosure is bringing the best sound quality so we get it right from the start basically.🎉 Well a subwoofer that are 98% made with a sealed or vented enclosure. A sealed uses the under pressure of the cabinet to bring back and dampen the cone when it progress out and vise versa when it goes in.. (Read that the recording have captured details that is amplified and sent to the driver and the whole driver and box assembly is working against what the recording and amplifier want the cone to go to reproduce what is on the recording by a artificial made under pressure or overpressure acting on the back of the driver!)😮 I see no superior sound quality coming out from that type of enclosure.. When the different air pressures are acting on the woofer and decapitate its full movement that is in the recording. Then look at vented or also called "bass reflex" enclosures. Yes they are able to be smaller when they are more efficient. But something else needs to give.. Yes it is the lack of sound quality! Lets look on how does a bass reflex work.. As we know that air is compressible so when the cone at the tuning frequency for the bass reflex port moves in then it compressing the air in the box that escapes a little bit "LATER" out trough the bass reflex port (time smearing)...😢 Oh what is that! A sound coming out delayed in time than it were recorded.. Not sound quality again..😮 A bass reflex port can be considered as a driver without a cone. A normal driver has something called in its Data sheet a "X-max" that is how many millimeters the cone can travel maximum. We can consider a bass reflex port to have a infinitely X-max when we can see on RU-vid bass reflex ports that blows out candles and skuffing. In other words there is a lot of air that is pulsed out in bursts acting as a air cannon.😮 That is why you say in your video that the subwoofers "rumble". You feel it in your chest pants and stuff in your room is playing along and vibrates.. Again nothing to do with sound quality...😢 So in short all info in the video is essentially worthless and with brand focus and not sound quality focus. The SUPERIOR enclosure of choice will have drawbacks also. Like big and bulky and need more wattage when it is bigger and is less efficient. But watts is cheap today. It will not delay the sound it will not load your room and minimizing the need for absorbers, keep in mind subwoofer frequencies is the hardest frequencies to treat. It will cancel out in 4 directions (up, down, left and right) any bass frequencies that the other enclosures above just pollute with (again not sound quality..) This will neither drag the cone back or push it forward because of the pressure when it is free and acing DIRECTLY at the air in the room . If you want to hear every DETAIL of the bass that Paul Chambers is playing than a enclosure of the type open baffle is acting as a magnifying glass and you hear everything. 🫶 And the time smearing of the vented boxes are gone and all other obstacles that is hindering you to experience what were actually recorded in full details. So not before you have experienced a well set up open baffle bass system. Then you don't know what bass sound quality is in reality. But maybe you feel comfort in klipch here and klipch there and at your late age are still going in circles and chasing your tail decade after decade.. Wake up and don't repeat same mistakes over and over and expect a different outcome.. Think about and strive after what different TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS bring to the table with their pros and cons. (Like that I described above in short resume above) And decide from that! For example I want enclosure X because of X, Y and Z that it can do. And get THAT and it doesn't matter if it is klipsh or whatever brand. Don't cement yourself into a corner. Learn..❤
I laughed out loud u t loud when you started a paragraph with, “So in short…” start your own channel and stop trying to impress everyone with your high opinion of yourself.
Hey Kevin! Good subject but I think you should do some more research about this topic, especially for those who use tube amplification in conjunction with larger high efficiency speakers, such as the La Scala. I would highly recommend going to Upscale Audio’s channel, this topic has a couple great videos. In addition REL’s John Hunter has some good stuff on their website. If you do any surfing about this matter , you’ll note a reoccurring comment, “my subwoofer isn’t loud enough”, “I have to turn up the volume on my subwoofer to make a difference”. I’m unsure about Solid State, but for Tubes, it’s a thing. I can attest that adding a stereo pair to my Belles has been wonderful. However, the recommendations from REL for a speaker such as LaScala is not an inexpensive option. I went with a lesser expensive option. It’s worked out and I have money for more records etc. Thanks for the video and I think this could be a couple part series. Look forward to your next episode.
very low volume compared to the last video i've seen. my telephone (xiaomi redmi 12) at highest volume is not enought as to enjoy properly this video. it is ironic that a show about music quality doesn't even have the newby skills of a home studio singer or voiceover.
It might be what music you listen to. You're not wrong that a lot of music won't go below 40hz. Unless, it is electronica, rap, hip hop, RB, pop, classical (as in pipe organ) and so on. If you listen to anything else, I guess you won't go down to 20hz. However, if you listen to a live classical part, it might give you another impact you didn't know was there, like the conductor walking on the stage, and that stage become a membran. Anyway, if it's not important to you. Forget it, some might want fullrange or use a sub for a better impact. It's not useless as I sort of got the impression of in this video. Music is physical, maybe you should add a sub, and a newer CD than Casper ;)
Most of audiophile CD are not worth musically speaking.A lot of music on the other hand can help you enjoy your system. Patrica Barber isn’t my favorite album (Blue cafè) but sounds astonishing when I play it in HDCD with my Denon 😊
I'm also curious about how many hours on the new tubes. In my experience, poor bass definition, harsh highs, a no magic are often symptoms of new tubes unless they are cryogenically treated. The red-plating is a whole other issue.
I am going to pair my Linn klimax with a Conrad Johnson Premier Eleven 11 A...this Linn klimax pre amp is unbelievable... hope it is as good as your CJ premier 10...maybe I should keep my eyes open for one of those pre amps..
watching netflix movies on a 2 channel system...I know if your system is to bass heavey or to much high frequency...first thing one does is like " where's the remote please" got to turn it down lower or times where you turn the volume up because you can't make out the speach well...this is a perfect case of either wrong speakers and or wrong amps...😜
have a chance to buy - is a Conrad Johnson Premier 140 or a Conrad Johnson Premier Eleven 11 A both really good tube amplifiers...? I imagine it would be a much better quality and hopefully better sounding tube amp than my dynaco st70 el34❓...I'm probably goinbto get the Conrad Johnson Premier Eleven 11 A... please share your thoughts🙏
Stay with the Italians. They match those tubes with that amp! I feel you! We've all been there! Enjoy the music! A quote: "Bought experience is the best experience!"
I don't see your argument holding with impact since as long as smaller drivers can have respective higher excursion to make up for it you get the same impact (e.g. multiplicative of total cone area of all bass cones with maximum excursion). That's what defines the impact you can feel (the air being moved). Now I believe the reason on why people feel a certain speaker is lacking (based on my hifi experience) is that a lot of speakers on the market (especially the smaller models which "lack" the chassis volume and sufficiently sized bass cones, like those ones with a single small bass cone for instance) will result in very high distortion when pushed hard (which is needed to produce the same low frequency at the same SPL compared to larger cones or a lot of bass cones). So what speaker manufacturers do is they tune those small speakers at much higher cutoff frequencies than their bigger siblings in the same speaker lineup. So they still can reproduce those frequencies (as shown on your meter) but the drop of in SPL is much higher. So the larger model will drop fewer dB of sound pressure than the smaller ones. Typically they are rated at -6dB for their tuning frequency (e.g. when bassreflex loaded) and a large speaker might be -6dB at let's say 23hertz which means that if you were to play a tone at 23 hertz it would play at -6dB compared to something played before their rolloff in the lower end (which might be at 80 hertz, all depends on the speaker when they let the lower bass roll off). This is already significantly less louder but 23hertz is super low so at frequencies you would listen to in a musical piece at maybe 42hertz (lowest register of an e-guitar in rock) it might only be -1dB or so and it will "sound fine". However, now you do the same thing with the small model of the same manufacturer which might be tuned to lets say -6dB at 35hertz. Well, now you might still get -4dB on 42hertz etc and that is a very notable drop. The reviewer will clearly hear that the amount of bass pressure he is used to in his reference system is at a very different level and he will (rightfully so from his perspective) conclude that this speaker is lacking bass/impact however you call it. So the rolloff curve of the lower end of bass starts much earlier/higher up in the frequency band and the curve is much steeper than the larger ones. They have to do that in order not to overdrive that small little bass cone in a tiny 2.5 way speaker or similar. So as long as you play stuff that doesn't go very low the SPL in bass is still there but the moment you put on a track which goes quite low (so that doesn't mean close to 20 hertz but more like 40, 50, 60 hertz ... so definitely within the speakers "range") but the rolloff will already be very notable in those frequency ranges with small woofer speakers. You would have to crank those regions up in DSP to compensate for that (which brings other issues then). So that's the reason why people will often say a speaker lacks bass. Otherwise a small speaker can still deliver all the impact (not necessarily the quality since distortion levels will be much higher when pushing the same SPL) as long as the cone area in combination with the maximum excursion of that driver can reproduce that SPL level desired. Since a lot of modern loudspeakers provide extremely high excursion even comparatively small cones (by old standards) can reproduce a ton of bass impact which might surprise people. But depending on the quality of driver, distortion etc only some companies let these smaller cones (often single or two small bass cones) roll off very low. Speaker manufacturers simply do what they think is best to provide a good overal performance giving the price and since more and larger cones for bass (everything else being equal) drives up the cost of a speaker by a large degree they will often just roll of the lowest bass more aggressively which reduces distortion, overheating when being pushed to hard in exchange for a perceived "lack of bass" when a track really demands the impact there. External subs just need to reproduce the lower part of the bass frequency range and thus they don't roll them off in this comparatively small frequency range. So the moment you add your sub the rolloff is gone, the lower bass has the correct full SPL and the impact is there again.
I currently have Psvane Acme 845 (I paid 556 USD per pair thru aliexpress shipped) in my Line Magnetic 845 premium amp and I noticed the forwardness. What are the tubes came with your Unison Research Simply 845? I'll get a pair.
I believe that you need to mention there driving capabilities (not quality of sound, just talking about delivering sufficient power just like you focus on here) are not only a factor of speaker sensitivity and output wattage out of your 4 or 8 ohm tab of the power amp but additionally 1. impedance curve of the loudspeaker (which very often varies quite heavily of the whole frequency spectrum), many amplifiers struggle to deliver the much higher current at low impedance drops (very typical to have two big dips there in the bass section with bassreflex speakers for instance) that often drop to 2 ohm or even lower at speakers rated at 4 or 6 ohm otherwise. An amplifier with huge current reserves can easily deliver the additional current even over longer periods and stable without overheating. A lot of amps on the market however can't, especially a lot of tube amps. Now those big transformer monoblock tube amps often deliver that easily but it's important to keep that in mind when matching "power" since power is frequency dependant and not a flat curve. Higher ohm values in the treble can mostly be run by the majority of amps but that is also not guaranteed. Apart from power the interaction of that impedance curve with the amp further changes the frequency curve to a more extreme when the damping factor is low (so mostly tube amps). 2. the power rating on amps in the spec sheet usually only should be understood as "average output over time". Most amps can deliver much higher power than their average power rating for short peaks and transients. For how long, how stable etc depends on the quality of the amp but since music is not a steady constant tone at a certain SPL but a constant bombardment of overlapping transients it is essential to look at these capabilities as well. Some companies (high quality ones, especially common with big pure class A amps, independently if MOSFET, bipolar transistor or tube) even design their power supplies intentionally in a ridiculously overengineered way which would be sufficient for much higher power ratings, even up to around 10 times their power rating. This allows for strong current draw as mentioned, e.g. the Riviera AFM100 monos have a power supply engineered that would be fit to drive an 800watt power amp even though it is "only" rated at 100 watts (comparatively due to being a pure class A design for sound characteristics) to make them stable, deliver on any peaks and always sound very effortless despite their comparatively low 100 watt output power compared to the heavy class D modern lifters out there. So if you want to match power delivery ("drive capability") of your amp you should at least consider output power rating at your ohm tabs, power supply of your amp, peak driving capabilities, cooling (some may ru nicely for a while but struggle to deliver after hours with insufficient cooling), impedance curve of the speakers with regards to the current delivery of your amp, how low your amp can even deliver without becoming unstable as well as the damping factor (not always equally important, since the loudspeaker cable itself, the length, also the drivers and their mounting impact a lot on how much "control" you need to assert, e.g lighter membrans like paper cones need more control everything else being equal than stiff diamond ones). Last but not least for inexperienced people in this hobby keep in mind that when you run tube amps they clip "soft", so you have to try super hard to ever blow out a tweeter at a harsh peak when driving the speaker too much. It will sound harsh, you realise that it's too much and dial back, that's it mostly. You only put more stress on it but you won't blow a tweeter that quickly, you would have to push super hard continously since the signal is only rolled of naturally by the tubes when no more power may be delivered. However, if you run anything other than tube amps the signal will literally be a square wave (or very close to it) which is what you feed at a too high SPL to your tweeter which while trying to perform crazy stunts producing that square wave (which should normally be an overlay of many sinus waves) and blow out. So in this regard, tube amps are very simple and safe to use while the golden rule otherwise is that you always need to have so much headroom that even at very low passages and peaks you will never ever run out of power. Since the power curve is exponential a single additional octave in sound pressure (so +10 dB) already means that you need 10 times the power than just before which is exactly why people go for crazy high wattage monsters when using harder to drive speakers with non-tube gear. Again, over-dimensioned current delivery class A MOSFET or bipolar transistor amps are exactly for that reason also often overengineered there (in addition to deliver an effortless dynamic presentation of course).
A 3-letter code on CDs indicates how they were produced. The first letter is recording, then mixing, then mastering. They are usually either AAD, ADD, or DDD. All end in D because CDs are digitally mastered. DDD are usually better sounding. Telarc made some of the best.
These letters were a marketing tool from the early days of CD, and have no bearing whatsoever on sound quality. AAD can sound great, and all DDD recordings can sound dreadful. There’s a thousand other variables more important than whether a recording is Digital or Analog.
The answer to that question is yes, speakers do need to extend down to 20hz. If not, then a subwoofer will be used in my system. My first reason is due to the possibility of music composition. My second reason is because my modest collection easily has a sizeable amount of cd recordings that are lower than 30 hz. Mahler's second symphony Holst - The Planets or how about Camille Saint-Saens Symphony 3?! Not to mention several of the Bach organ works. I did not have to search hard for those. But in all fairness, I have taught music history and low brass performance for a very long time. So I could easily recall those examples. If I searched my collection, I am sure I could find electronic music in fair amounts that extend between 20-30 Hz. In my examples, we are not addressing the impact of low frequencies. Music indeed does have works in that range. The scope of recorded music is huge.
As a recommendation you should use Hanz Zimmer's score from the motion picture of the Thin Red Line Dynamic and very good test to see how your speakers and amp will produce the entire orchestra
I agree 100% I compare an engines horsepower to head room in an amp. It's the responsiveness and performance the extra, mostly unused, power provides in control of the speed from slow to fast. (AKA dynamics) A sufficiently powered amp will do the same thing to a speaker. It's not zero or maximum speed that counts, it's the control of speed of everything in between.
I'm probably going to get the Conrad Johnson Premier Eleven 11A 1979...and wondering how they will sound and pair with a pair of Tannoy Berkeley's mkll and how that compares to this Altec Valencia speaker...Your thoughts please Sir...
A few useful notes? 130dB = threshold of permanent ear damage 120dB = threshold of pain 106dB = peak/maximum orchestra Hearing is logarithmic. 1dB is/was recognized as the smallest difference audible by human ear (many are a little more sensitive than this especially with the wick wound up). 3dB represents a doubling of power. If you're speakers are 97.5dB @1W/1M sensitivity and you are listening under those same test conditions, merely having two speakers brings you up to 100.5dB. 2W gets you 103.5dB, 4W gets you 106.5dB UNDER THOSE TEST CONDITIONS. In room responses will of course vary wildly, which is why a dB meter is often useful.
Great video as usual, Kevin. I always enjoy the way you explain understanding audio and what comes with it. It’s unfortunate that some people don’t take into account the amps true wpc, the sensitivity of speakers, and where their seating position is. Or, even worse, not even bothering to try understanding those factors in the first place. It’s potentially robbing them of what can be a hugely gratifying hobby. Thanks again, sir. Very much appreciated.
1st how do you listen to that THING ? So beautiful I would be mesmerized !! The real question is are you getting dynamics from the speaker or the amplifier 104 spl sensitivity on a speaker works . I've got 3 different listening areas with all the speakers no less than 12 feet apart. One of the systems is designed to go to 132db 600 watts per channel 60hz up, Dual Subs down to 15hz 500 watts each. But my favorite is still 20 wpc class A as above that it goes to 90 wpc class D In my master bedroom most engagement and enjoyment Class G integrated amplifier
Thanks, for this. You are touching on another issue with dynamic range. I find the dynamic range on some tracks is so wide I have to make a compromise with the volume level. Some tracks start so soft that I cannot hear the details well unless I turn the volume up to a certain level, either to overcome the inefficiency (inertia) in the drivers or to to get them moving dynamically in concert with my room. However, when I have the volume level set high enough to enjoy the quiet passages, it becomes uncomfortably loud when the music on the track reaches its crescendo. For such tracks, where I set the volume allows me to enjoy either the soft or the loud passages or I have to change the volume during the track and this fiddle reduces my enjoyment of them.
Why dont you talk about the first talking movie and the western electric Telephonic speakers the 12a & 13a only used 3 watts to fill a theater of 3-4000 poeple
Hey hey EA :-D. The Decware site has some great test video for his fleas with 12" and 15" Betsy Open Baffle speakers in a large well furnished room and they sound really good and plenty loud in that setup. I had one I'd get some vintage 12" to 18" field coils which should give nice bass and good headroom from a 2 watt vac valve amp coz most of your listening unless its orchestral or live rock will be in mini watts as those drivers are usually >100db/m. Cheers big ears!
Certain genres of music are very dynamic. Classical and many movie scores are certainly so. My mother-in-law recently returned from visiting Argentina and brought me an lp of tango music. That stuff is CRAZY dynamic!
I have loved music and have played music my whole adult life and watching the different VC channels I have never seen such arrogance and stupidity amongst a lot of the audiophile community Bragging about their 1000 cables, or about their 900 dollar cartridges! Anything less is just not good enough for my ears It’s a shame they just can’t enjoy the music anymore!!
My mother was a real deal musical savant and pianist. I picked out gear based on her opinion, and I still own most if not all of it. iI’m a musician as well, but trusted her ears more than mine. Love Skunkie! 💜🦨 She’s absolutely brilliant. If someone judges her because she’s a woman, that’s just complete and utter nonsense and a bunch of BS.
I am glad you decided to tackle this topic. I do not see this as a hobby. Music is one of the main things that brings me joy! As a professional musician, for over forty years....music is not my primary career. I have engaged with many female music lovers, women musicians and women sound engineers. The classism and sexism in this pursuit is real. For me, looking and learning about gear is great....BUT...not my main goal or happiness. My main goal is only to learn and seek to get items that serve the music. It allows me to have a better relationship with sound. Most men I have encountered, in this so-called hobby, regurgitate what they read, viewed on a video, or what their associations shared with them. Most I know have a shallow comprehension at best. They know little or nothing about: music history, music performance, music theory, or composition. But because they know more about gear than I they feel they can tell me how music is suppose to sound. Or tell women I know (who work in the music field) that their opinions are insignificant. Ridiculous behavior. Subscribed!
From my personal experience, my wife listens to everything and she does express her opinion on how things sound or look, when it comes to my photography, but she doesn't care at all about hardware and my belief is that for males, a big part of the enjoyment is playing around with the gear, reading reviews, comparing (males love it) adjusting and dreaming about the next big thing that will be a life changer. Women, being more mature, usually don't waist energy on gear, being usually troubled with real life
