I appreciate the motivational feedback! I try to provide solid and straightforward answers to my customers questions/problems. Doing a quick video always seems to help the most, plus it gives a little back to the turbo community. Hope all is well "down under!" -Reed
Lots of companies using the same supplier for parts, just re-badging of HPT in this case. The "PTE-esq" looking compressor is most likely being modeled out of the same software as well. We purchase from a supplier who uses this blade design as well...does the job! -Reed
Yes sir, we had a customer with a $1300 Garrett housing sand and grind on his registration flange, ruining the housing. Figured it would be a good topic to cover! -Reed
Nice setup. Have you considered testing them with ~200° water running through the center section and maybe coupling an motor with speed control to the shaft? I have a theory the EFR, aluminum supercore specifically, normally leak oil on turbine side at very low shaft speed (idle conditions) at normal operating temps. Potentially caused by the higher thermal expansion rate of aluminum. All of my EFRs have done this and only remedy was oil restrictor >1mm
I have thought about testing them "hot", but in most cases of aluminum housings the "cold" leak will be less due to tighter clearances in the seal area. As the aluminum heats up, the end gaps on the seal rings normally expand a touch. This would be a fairly straightforward test, next time I have one on the bench I will do this...you know, for the sake of learning! -Reed
can you tell us more on these new compressor wheels out there they call "nutless" compressor wheel without a nut, and claim 15% increase for the same size...Apex and Comp turbo-both do these wheels. can you comment on this
Obviously the design has greater blade area, and should perform better IF the engineering is done correctly. Proper engineering is a must for any component, especially a compressor. Look at the evolution of any "same size" turbocharger wheel over the years. The fact that we are seeing gains in flow is testament to this. Personally I have found that proper testing of a blade shape for the given application will always out perform hub thickness reduction applied to older generation wheels. So just changing this attribute with no other consideration will usually net negligible gains. Simply put, applying proper engineering to a hub-less or reduced area hub wheel can provide a flow increase. Is it measurable? Yes. Is it always going to out perform a larger hub compressor? Only if the development time and engineering are in place!-Reed
I definitely noticed the clamp interference. It’s an absolute pain also to separate a turbine housing after it’s been run in a g series for a while. They do make really good power though. I have a g35-1050 and I made 849whp on a 2018 civic type r. I used the .83 housing so there’s definitely more power to be had on bigger exhaust housing.
I tell everybody that anti-seize is your best friend, the good copper infused stuff. Also, if you need to remove the housing after it has been heat cycled a bunch, use a propane torch to heat up the housing. It will make it so much easier to remove! -Reed
Yes you lose response but gain Hp by removing old exhaust from the cylinder from lower back pressure. This means more fresh air the cylinder and higher hp at the same boost pressure.
I am working on videos showing this just as soon as we can get on the dyno...hoping in the next 4 weeks to cover this in depth with some actual data! -reed
We have a Buick GN with the 9569S that is knocking on 900 whp through a TH400 and a 9". I always try to under rate or "cushion" my power number quotes...its always easier to deal with a customer that is making more power than expected ;) -Reed
We are seeing all kinds of propaganda/marketing pushing "cool, new, shiny" stuff to sell new parts/inventory. Garrett thankfully has maps to compare new 10 blade compressors to 7+7. The skew in the compressor maps are clear. No free lunch. It would be great if you could share the plus/minus with folks
I will go down the rabbit hole of compressor maps soon...but the simple truth is any blade count/splitter arrangement can be tailored to perform at any reasonable PR, but like you say...there is no free lunch. Not for Garrett, Borg, Holset or any other manufacturer. You will simply move the numbers around, so choosing based off of your engine's requirement will always be in your best interest. Be ready...its coming as fast as I can wrap up the test and editing. Reed
Yessir...the move over into XRE compressor technology has been a solid move for them HTA/HTZ has long since run its course! The HTA dates back to the very late 90's, being derived off of a K31 borgwarner wheel. It is almost a carbon copy of that technology. Reed
You say "it's going to want to flow quick, but be laggy"... How does that make sense?? If it flows quickly, doesn't that mean, it will spool quickly and be on boost sooner? Kind of confusing.
Sorry for the confusing wording...I get a bit excited, plus doing videos in "one take" sometimes I may not finish a whole thought or explanation. Good news, we are about to take my videos to the next level with some real editing and a bit more focus...getting nothing but better content from here on out. Let me clarify. The turbine wheel has a high degree of intake capacity, so it will flow very well, but this does not always correlate into energy being used to actually rotate the assembly. Think of the blade angle and "slip" or "bypass" that takes place before there is enough energy recovery to drive rotation. This is simply high flow, but low energy to drive. Once the exhaust creates enough energy and flow, the wheel will be very efficient and accelerate quickly, providing drive energy with low drive pressure. Hope that makes a bit more sense of my original analysis. FWIW, when applied to the right engine this will be no issue. Thank you for your insight...it will help me with future videos! -Reed
@@workturbo 👍 Do you deal mainly with import( pc, correct term, lol), or deal with real engines, like American V8s, too? hehe Either way, I think the type of fuel would make a big difference, too. Two 78/75s on a 5.3 might sound too big, but use methanol and all is better.
@@funfun8095 I started my career with the Buick GN, shop started in 1997 with that market. I got my foot in the door with SSO (super street outlaw) back in the early 2000's with John Urist, Mike Murillo, Chris Derrick Dan Millen...I am the small shop that ran directly up against PTE and Turbonetics back in then. We ran pretty well in Ultra Street with Mark Rogers, and Haley James...quite a few Drag and drive guys...Rich Guido, Eric Yost, Frank Saponaro and a ton of awesome others. I am a little guy...but try to do big things. Dont get me wrong...we have quite a few fast Import customers also, but my main experience is in the 1800+ HP customer. As time goes by, I will add to this channel and fill in most of this, but I have you covered on just about any platform. Total disclaimer, I learn something new every day, and will be the first to say if I was incorrect if any way possible. If I did not find this still interesting and challenging I would be sitting at the lake fishin :) Reed
Hi, Norb! I would need to see what we could work up for an internal gate to suit the 4.3. The rotor group would be a good match for this application. There is even a possible T3 foot so it would bolt to your existing manifold or headers. I can also upgrade your stock MHI turbo as well :) Drop me an email for details! Hope all is well up in Canada! -Reed
Im guessing the "original tuner" was just trying to error on the side of caution? Or maybe he wasn't really paid to do the leg work? If he had it on a dyno, and it was picking up that kind of power, he definitely didn't "finish" tune it. The why is the real question in my mind. I can't say he is at fault though.
@rpturbo I would love to say that I do not see this often, but the truth is I have this conversation at least weekly with customers, sometimes daily. We just went through this today with a customer who shared with me his timing table. The car made very respectable numbers on the dyno, but none of the driving tune was dialed in at all. Tall deck SBF with only 15-18 degrees at cruising speed. Pair that with his A:F target of 12.4 and the poor turbo was getting cooked running down the highway. Last Friday was a simple 427 SBF with hi-ports. Single 88mm. Total timing above 20 psi was 18 degrees. Car "was out of turbo" according to the tuner at 28 psi and 54 psi of drive pressure. 9 degrees of timing later and 26 psi, we made over 200 more HP. I am not saying every tuner is like this by any stretch, but trying to tell my customers that a "safe" tune is not always "safe" or "fully tuned" is more along the goal of this video. sorry for the long answer, thank you for your comment! Reed
Since turbos are normally gravity drained, I've always wondered if the sump should be vented to prevent the scavenge pump from pulling a suction on the turbo? .... Never mind. I wrote this not even 10 seconds before he addressed it. lol
Do you have any data on the PT 6466? They seem to make 900WHP when really pushed, which i haven't seen any other 6466 make. I know they don't have maps, but do you have any data?
Not much data that I can accurately spit out of my brain at the moment, but we have a few good sources that have pushed other 64mm units into that range as well. One of the most under rated compressor wheels in the BorgWarner line up is their 64mm SXE, I will see if I can find that data, but we have made well into the 840 AWHP range with that compressor on a 4G63/EVO build a good while back. I am gearing up for some actual dyno testing of various compressors as we speak...I think you are going to enjoy what content is coming! -Reed
It would depend on the engine...and your budget! The 3582R cast wheel ball bearing unit will easily support 500+ whp on most healthy 2.2-4.0L modern engines with good response. Newer G series (G25-550), the Xona XR-5757S and others are a better choice for smaller displacements looking for that power level. Larger engine? For Modular Ford's, 4.8 and 5.3 LS the S366 and S369SXE fill the bill quite nicely without breaking the bank! -Reed
@@juanmangerita Very familiar with your application. We had a very good friend with an FD, very mild street port and it made upper 400 whp on a GT3582 cast wheel unit, IIRC it was a 1.06 T4. We went to a 6766 and made mid 500's without much fuss. This was a street car and boost was kept very conservative. I think the 3582 would have made 500, we just never pushed it to its limit. I have had dealings with pulsar, so far so good once we go through and do our QC. I very rarely use "out of the box" turbochargers from any manufacturer...almost everything we do is custom in some way!-Reed
The blanket only makes sense in competitive sports, where the lifespan does not count for that minimal advantage. Has anyone thought about how long the turbo is "cold" without the blanket? As long as it doesn't give floor gas. After the next one, it's already warm... So there is no significant advantage to the blanket, it only reduces the life of the turbo.
Clipping is when you are putting a smaller turbo on a big engine and need more flow. Not needed on a 4 cylinder when you are trying to extrapolate as much power as possible. Clipping anythjng will ruin your power band.
Really appreciate all the details I never knew to look for. Especially about the design influencing the compressor map, and the shape of the map potentially influencing spool characteristics. Really cool stuff!
I had a TE-60 on my Buick and it sounded like a Leer jet driving down the road. It was so cool with straight pipes and an .82 housing. I recently replaced with a Precision 6262 but this one is so quiet. Is there a reason for that? Blade design etc.? Thanks in advance. great channel
Most of the time more efficient compressor/turbine wheels will make less noise, the good old 60-1 has great airflow at lower shaft speeds, but it is horribly inefficient...and the T31 hi flow turbine whistles pretty good too...lots of great sounds, just not great efficiency! Reed
Our WORK option gets cover machine work, seal bore coating, stainless seal bore is an option for high oxygenated fuels...we cover all of the basis on these units! Reed
Very informative. I didn't knew turbos have piston rings. What was the problem? Was the housing bore warped , or it was the piston ring? Or the carbon seal? Cheers.
Yes, the turbine "gas seal" is a piston ring (exhaust side). This is the simplest, cheapest and most effective way to seal your basic turbine. Almost all automotive/diesel/light industrial turbochargers will also have a piston ring seal on the compressor side as well. There was a time (the 80's! ) where carbon face compressor side seals were very prevalent...but those days are mostly behind us...save for the required application for that type (high vacuum on the compressor inlet) This turbo was either a seal bore concentricicy (sp) or line bore issue, but could have also been a seal ring that was faulty due to manufacturing or installation. Most likely it was the bore, I have had this same issue pop up from time to time. I did not investigate further as the time it takes to do this out weighs the cost of just replacing parts...but as a caution I did perform seal leakage tests on the next 10 or so T3 turbochargers that used this same batch of housings and seal rings...did not see any issues, nor did I have any other reported failures (as of today). Thank you for your question! -Reed
The vband turbine inlet sounds great just like super duper racecar stuff. Now , take that exhaust you welded to the mating vband flange. It is warped as hell. File it down flat, now there's not enough "crimp" in the vband. It is a real thing when you are trying to diagnose problems on the dyno
Yessir...we see this on the daily. It takes somebody that fully understands the application to properly weld/fit exhaust flanges and also compressor v-bands. -reed
@@workturbo I'll take 4 bolt turbine inlet flanges, and slip-fit compressor outlet every day of the year. Any loss in turbine inlet pressure is an evil, non-recoverable loss that wreckes the whole working turbine/compressor relationship
After welding and then resurfacing turbine inlet v-bands for no leakage, then the loss of clamp, I'm kinda done with vband turbine inlets for street stuff. ANY loss in turbine drive pressure wrecks the whole deal. Give me a 4 bolt turbine inlet flange. A stainless gasket for thin stuff, or no gasket with thick cast flanges
I want to disagree with one claim. If testing the boost pressure from the turbocharger by connecting the boost gauge to the compressor cover in the beginning og the snail, far away from the outlet, the result will be WRONG as the pressure there is lower than the boost pressure out of the compressor outlet. :)
There is validity to your response, and it is measurable...but it also is a very small amount in most cases. Most people do not comprehend how a centrifugal compressor housing functions...most do not even know how a compressor wheel "works" as well. Knowing that the compressor tubing is an extension of the volute and has a purpose to a degree that is more than just connecting the compressor to the system will be a future topic. I will be going over this with real world data in the future...lets just say I have a lot of "ports" in a housing and piping for the data. On a traditional compressor cover with the port located outside the torus centerline in the "spigot", the pressure drop is minimal from what I have found "If" the compressor piping does not make a drastic volume change directly after that point. At least using my measurement hardware. I could spend quite a bit of time just studying this design attribute and testing variations... Thank you for bringing this up, it gives me motivation to learn more! -Reed
There seems to be a lot of really bad tuners around just punching numbers on a keyboard not analyzing anything other than HP peak number. Bergen StreetRacing Team have "invented" something they call "The theoretical NA engines performance." Examples can be seen if one google " Den teoretiske sugemotoren ." photos. After a dynopull they divide the torque number and hp number with the MAP number at the all the different RPMs. (This should really be in the dyno software.) Doing this, one will find that "The theoretical Na Engines performance" will be pretty stable before it starts to goes south and and EGT goes way north. How far beyond the peak NA result one wants to push the tune and the engine differs vastly. Very interessing using this knowlage when whatcing big names in the industry on the dyno, incl. Fueltech, Murder Nova, Nelson, Shane T etc. comes to mind. :)
I love this...we always have used some type of "average power number"...some call it by different names, and some arrive at it more scientifically then me...but always taking the average HP and average torque...and averaging that seems to be the way to go! I try to evaluate that in a real world "range" depending on application. Obviously a street car will be slightly different than a drag car, pulling class or over the road truck...but once you define the prime operating range and focus your gains there...it gets nothing but better! -Reed
