This channel is dedicated to these four WWII escort carriers and their squadrons:
CVE-106 USS Block Island - VMTB-233 and VMF-511 CVE-107 USS Gilbert Islands - VMTB-143 and VMF-512 CVE--109 USS Cape Gloucester - VMTB-132 and VMF-351 CVE-111 USS Vella Gulf - VMTB-234 and VMF-513
They were the beginning of a change to Marine Corp operations of air attack and ground support.
Through researching the subject I came across over 100 archive color films that the Marine Corp documented by having film crews embedded with the squadrons. Captured on colored film were the flight crew training of the new mission tactics, the daily life of men aboard the carrier, and mission specific operations.
My motivation for undertaking this project is my connection to my Father in Law who was a pilot assigned to VMTB-143 aboard CVE-107 USS Gilbert Islands.
As a side note, was this Great Lakes paddle steamer that was converted to a flat top for carrier pilot training? No joke, a side paddle aircraft carrier. It freed up full size carriers for combat & it all took place far, far away from enemy submarines.
An interesting analysis of a very sad event (already watched the full sequence video with the log notes). I guess even those early carrier catapults gave a hell of a shove when let go. Trainee pilots surely were instructed to brace their arms and legs before the shot to prevent wayward control inputs, and perhaps this young pilot felt he was properly prepared for the kick, but you can see his body get shoved backwards quite significantly by the inertia. Too much back-pressure on the stick and the thing quit flying almost immediately; minimal margin of error, no fly-by-wire system with triple redundant computers filtering control inputs, just direct mechanical linkages and a 2000+ horsepower radial trying to roll you over. Poor bloke had zero seconds to save it. I saw another comment saying that the crash looked survivable. I think this is a fairly common misconception around naval aviation incidents, the assumption being that it's better to crash into water than into solid ground. The thing is, despite being a fluid, water is actually a pretty dense substance. The carrier is already steaming ahead at best speed for flight operations, so the plane has that amount of kinetic energy before it's even left the deck, which it does at somewhere around 100mph. Even though it stalled and lost a lot of that energy in the torque-induced roll before impacting the water, the forces involved would easily have been equivalent to hitting a concrete barrier in a car travelling at highway speed. The best thing that can be said about such an incident is that it happened very quickly and the pilot was almost certainly incapacitated before the plane sank. RIP Lt. Edward C. Groves, USMCR.
Do you have any films of the Marine Night Fighting Squadron 542 on Ulithi Atoll? Thanks for sharing your work! as a camera guy myself, these films are fantastic!
Thank you for tuning in! Regarding VMF(N)-542 I just found this one film... go to digital.library.sc.edu and search for 101727 . They show the base of that squadron and some shots of the planes and men.
I see multiple shots of a wing strut, such as at 1:20, which make me think they were in an observation aircraft, such as a Grasshopper. Perhaps these flew off escort carriers. They definitely had the slow landing speed for it. Interesting video
What I'm confused about is his training. Obviously this wasn't the pilots 1st time flying a Corsair so does ithe aircraft behave any different taking off from a land based runway then an carrier ? 2nd- In training don't they put pilots on sleds ? Or catapult them from land based runways ? Watching the video it was almost like watching someone so ill prepared to fly the Corsair.
I find no evidence that they were able to provide a simulation of the catapult experience on land. They practiced landing patterns and landings using LSO signals. This very well could have been his first catapult launch. It took place on the first day of training for that. Only 8 satisfactory takeoffs and landings were required to become "carrier qualified".
Just watching the water go by as the camera is focused on the pilots, that carrier/tides are MOVING. No question why these men were the greatest generation ever. Its crazy to imagine some of these men aboard are under 18 and lied about their age to enlist. I wonder if any of them knew the importance of their sacrifice. Truly amazing, god rest their souls.
Or maybe a sudden throttle change to full. Pilot thought maybe full power would pull him out but only added to make it worse. This is things that we talk about forever and never solve.
Your analysis of the accident looks spot on. One other thing the pilot did that worsened the roll was to counter the roll to the left with opposite aileron input. Due to the deflection of the left aileron going down, it causes the angle of attack to increase on the outboard of the left wing, making the stall worse and causing the aircraft to roll more violently to the left. So a combination of too much pitch input, left rudder, and left aileron at the end of the deck induced the stall, and the only thing the aircraft was responding to was the torque of the engine at that high of an AOA. But his inputs to get the aircraft under control made it worse.
Water is fluid and can move if an applied force causes pressure in the right way. But water is also non-compressible. And in an almost instantaneous large surface area collision between the airplane and the surface of the water, Newton's first law (inertia) wins and the water does not move. Because the time interval for the collision was very short, the forces created between the water and the airplane would be huge, enough to smash the pilot like a rag doll and kill him instantly, and likely disintegrate or heavily damage the plane. RIP to the pilot and to all others who lost their lives to defend our nation.
I already read through the comments, maybe I didn't catch it. What would have been the immediate thing for the pilot to have done here to stop that rolling over? The film said something about the Right Rudder appeared to be applied instead of the Left Rudder. Would Left Rudder have calmed that roll down or would the solution have been Left Rudder, Right Aileron(stick), Down elevator (down stick), Nose Down, and then small increase in power after recovery? If anyone out there with experience with these very high WW2 era fighter planes can comment on this would be so very appreciated. This is heartbreaking to know that pilot made it to his dream only to lose his life here.
The trim settings on the chalk board are the same found in the Pilot's Operating Manual for that plane. Also included in the POM are instructions to brace the right arm and stiffen both legs against the rudder pedals. Both of these actions would resist undesired control movement during the catapult launch (during which they are accelerating from zero to about 90+ mph in a very short time). By allowing the control stick to come back, the rudder to move left, and (maybe) the control stick to shift a little left, greatly accelerated the negative situation. It all happened so fast that he might not have had the ability to stop it once off the deck. Check the other longer video found in the description. It shows other pilots launching from the same carrier, same day, same camera. Slow the video down. You can see how it should have been done. In fact, I could put together a comparison video....hmmm.
To leave your great home at sea.And all thats America. Is a spellbinding horror story. A wee inflatable boat under your arse? And some info and rations. Yes the Worlds your Oyster?.My father served during Ww2 R.A.F. he drummed it into me the horrors of ditching.
I have read something to that effect. The first squadron assigned Corsairs on a carrier soon shifted them to land based. The films here are some of the earliest Marine squadrons working through it.
That could be a main factor. With the help of the British, who were also trying to use them on carriers, they changed the landing pattern to allow for better visibility of the landing deck. Catapult launches were still new to them, and they are along for the ride until airborne.
Without seeing his logbook, it is hard to say. Based on seeing another person's logbook though, and the War Diaries of the ship and squadron, it could very well have been one of his first times....
I just found through the squadron's and ship's war diaries, that this was the very first day of carrier catapult launching they experienced, so it could have very well been his first attempt. Only 8 satisfactory takeoffs and landings were required to be carrier qualified.
The chalkboard had elevators 6° nose up which seems unnecessary. He had full power, full flaps down, a head wind and a catapult assist. Level elevators or perhaps 2° nose down might have been the order of the day.
Those trim settings are in the Pilots Operating Manual for the Corsair due to its tendency to roll to the left at high power, low airspeed, full flaps conditions like this.
The heater Valve was feed by engine fuel and it sat underneath the pilots seat area in the lower part of the fuselage. This heater valve was a common problem as it would leak and ignite unbeknown to the pilot. There is an achieve film that shows another F4uf sitting on the flight deck and the engine is running, and the pilot is notified by the deck hands to get out! They successfully got him out. They investigated the problem and learned that the Heater control or heater transfer valve was leaking. Whether there was an AD etc., published to fix the problem I don't know. I have all the manuals of the F4uf and could not ascertain if there were mods for the heater control valve.
WHY do I see so many images of SBD's diving on IJN carriers from an angle to the carrier's centerline (length wise) ? I woud assume that diving from the stern of the target lining up on to its center line, towards the target's bow would give a dive bomber pilot much more chance to correct for wind and for evasive actions by the ships ? Also, I did not see many images showing SBD's making a "shoulder roll" just before entering the dive, although such roll would be the preferred way ? This opposed to Stuka bombers often seen rolling over the shoulder.
One can only imagine the fear and trepidation this young aviator must have felt while strapped into the mighty Corsair. Rest in peace young man, and thank you for your service . . .
Sadly, it wasn't. Most likely, based on the report of the incident, he hit his head on the instrument panel and was rendered unconscious. The plane sank very quickly.
I wish there was a way to show before and after footage, this takeoff followed by ones that are done properly. Maybe this was a "cold shot", to use the vernacular even though it certainly wasn't steam. The plane was evidently strapped to the catapult, hydraulic with wires and pulleys. Magnificent barrel roll, however too much water, not enough sky unfortunately.
@@VMTB143Mike yep thanks Mike I've seen them and it's clear that something went terribly wrong for this guy. Getting shot off the deck of a carrier in a F4U is not where and when you want to get behind the plane. But for aviators, wannabes and just non aviators in general it might be a clear picture of do and don't and the consequences. Anyway keep em coming, aviation and the Pacific theater was a fascination for me since childhood for some reason and I'm 74 now.
You got the rudder and elevator positions right but you forgot something. When the stick is moved hard right, the left aileron is fully down and the right aileron fully up. The left aileron stalls that wing and the wing drops. At the stall the stick shoud be centred and rudder used along with pitch to regain control.
Surprisingly the blackboard drill said "Flaps full down". I'd have thought it would have caused ballooning like we saw. What killed the pilot, the plane hit the water with wings almost level, so did the impact cause unconsciousess or dazed him, preventing him getting out? As for the "backfire", perhaps going inverted disrupted the fuel flow and made the engine "cough" as the fuel sloshed around in the tank? Incidentally, as a matter of interest why was there no steam from the catapult? PS- Was there ever an official inquiry or accident report?
There is a written description of the accident in the ship's War Diary. Check out the longer video versions of the accident (links in this video's description)...at the end of those videos is a scan of that document.
The first catapults were hydraulic, with pulleys and wires, propelled devices, steam, along with an angled deck, came later. In looking up the answer to your question I found that the US Navy is doing away with steam and going to electromagnetic propulsion. I suspect that that change saves the Navy and us the taxpayers a ton of money and down time. I'm not waiting for a rebate check however. The T-28 Trojan trainer if it's still in service, launched cold, it didn't/doesn't use any catapult, it's make it or break it on its own.
Flaps are full to provide maximum lift coefficient for a slow speed carrier takeoff. They do not cause ballooning if they are down at the start, and they do not cause pitch up. Trailing edge flaps usually generate a nose down pitching moment, which is compensated for with trim. That is probably why the takeoff trim was to be set at 6 degrees nose up. The reason the airplane pitched up was that the control stick was held too far back.
The engine (backfire?) would have nothing to do with the accident. For whatever reason, he didn't push the nose down after the cat released him, causing the over rotation, possible stall entry. Left rudder sealed his fate.
Actually, I am not saying that it did. I am just analyzing the video in more detail. Others spotted it in the original videos, they commented, and I am giving them a deeper/closer look. The accident is a given before the "backfire".
Theres a name for what happened to that F4U, the pilot experienced something called torque spin or something to that effect, as it was not unknown to occur on the F4U with improper trim
