The "baggage" thought is quite interesting... in the idea of too quickly empowering folks. Once again tho, St Augustine tells us that every person that comes our way is sent by God for a reason.
I was in an extremely abusive church for 10+ years. The main pastor and preacher was a female who was so cruel and abusive. She would demand loyalty and would isolate us. We would get in trouble for not asking her for permission to do things in our personal lives. She would make fun of people behind closed doors, yelled at us, and punished us for the smallest things. We had to follow her rules and do things her way. She was so different in church vs how she was in real life. She didn’t believe in being accountable to anyone so the abuse went unchecked. We left recently after she was caught stealing word for word preachings from other pastors who are well known. Me and my family were in the core leadership and experienced so much hurt. I haven’t been able to go to church much. I miss it.
I literally want to cry right now because this is so prevalent and I have been a victim of this for many years. I left 2 churches only to find myself yet in the same situation at the church I presently attend. I want to obey Jesus and I understand what Heb 10:25 says- but where do I go?
Pray to the Lord to lead you to a Holy spirit-filled church He will definitely lead you to a Holy spirit filled Church just ask Him pray and keep asking He won't let you down👌🥰👍🙏🙌🔥💕
I think that with prayer christians should volunteer to do work in the body of Christ as well in the church that they attend. Saying that! I don’t think Christians should be guilted, strong armed, or guilted into volunteering especially for being an usher for example. I worked the CD/tape ministry for a church that wasn’t my home church for 18 years. I was a little reluctant at first but once the Holy Spirit showed me how to do the task I enjoyed it. My home church tape ministry was already occupied but they tried to manipulate me into ushering to which I had told them no
Churches are going to have to do a lot better than the traditional "songs and sermon' approach to gathering together. It crowds out mutual ministry and it is stifling, unimaginative, and boring. It doesn't encourage real community at all.
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Hey guys I am a new listener. Love the podcast! Could you comment on what process you use to gather both quantitative and qualitative data for decision making and change management initiatives?
Glad to have you tuning in! Prior to starting a church health and revitalization work, we survey the church's leaders to gather qualitative data about the church's mission, core values, discipleship pathway, vision, leadership, and strategy execution. Quantitatively, we also look at several years of attendance and giving to see what the trend lines look like for those in addition to engagement in discipleship ministries and serving in the church.
Hi brothers thanks for this episode. You are not wrong in saying that in today's era, the pastors are no raising the next leaders. I would say that is a big contribution to the slow growth in churches today as well as the financial reasons such as an income stability for the pastor and his needs that also is important to note. I really do believe that God provides still today as He did in times past and will provide for the church He suffered and died and rose again for. The lack of love in God to serve the next generation faithfully and the faith to believe God will sustain us is lacking. Its hard to find leaders who are selfless in our churches sometimes becuase they do not know hw to commit serving the next generation- they are either ignorant of the times and seasons we are leading in disregarding the next leaders God has raised or they are just self centered. They have valid reasons but Gods Kingdom never lacks provision if we position our faith in God well and see how He is seeing and follow His leads. Our leaders and pastors today need Gods truth in their lives to first lead in their homes, then pour into the next leaders. Without the truth burning in our hearts how are we to know how to build His church? If one generation fails as Judges 1-2 shows of no leader under Joshua there will come a generation who will not know God and will do all that is right in their own eyes.
The point in regards of letting new people serve I can wholeheartedly agree with. That’s the testimony of my sister. She accepted Christ as Lord and Savior volunteering as a teen in Children’s Church even when we were not officially members of the church.
You CANNOT have NPD and self reflect even in the slightest. Saying you could possibly have those tendencies if left unchecked disqualifies you from having NPD. Genuine outward empathy and genuine inward reflection have no place in Narcissistic personality disorder.
Oh my we left our church because of moving out of state. The pastor of the church we left was not nice behind the scenes. Very nasty wanting to control all minstries in the church sweatshop.
The American church! If one waited for someone to approve them in an assessment and the perfect amount of folks then you would never plant a church! Who says you have to have it all together! Why can’t you come and just worship the Lord and teach his word in a church setting? Critical mass? One size does not fit every situation!
I think we provide the caveat in the episode that many of these "mistakes" are targeted at a particular type of church in a particular context. That said, we know of many church planters whose churches have closed or never got off the ground due to these mistakes. Thanks for the feedback!
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
Here is "The truth" from a former Catholic/Christian long time Atheist. More and more people are discovering they can and are living moral and spiritual lives without Religion and the god belief(s). Transform old and abandoned churches into permit approved Secular community and humanitarian aid centers. - emergency housing for the homeless - food and medical hubs - clothing, blankets etc donation drops etc... Things Jesus Christ would approve.
Religion is dying in the United States. The quicker the better. When all moderates eventually leave Religion and churches, what little remains in it will be fanatics, bigots and conmen.
In Mark 16:17-18, Jesus said: "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover". This is like a litmus test for Christians and most of us are failing this test. Perhaps the problem with Christianity today is that the followers of Christ, even some pastors, are operating below par. It's no shock then that people are quitting from the pulpits and pews.
"(Liberal Christians) don't have...the very foundation of where your faith might be placed anyway. If [they] don't have respect for the truth of Scripture and the character of God, the nature of God, what is [their] religion based on at that point?" I ask you, Where does the character or nature of God even come into it? We only know such things through the Scriptures and the expositors of the Scriptures. The veracity of the ancient biblical writers and you modern preachers is what is being questioned by a literate membership. How can we believe people who don't understand the rudiments of scientific reality? How can we trust the character of people who admire human miscreants like Donald Trump? Can a divine being such as the purported Holy Spirit really be inspiring this stupidity and immorality? Most young people--even those homeschooled in the faith--will leave it because the appeal to biblical authority by Christian spokesmen can no longer compete with the appeal to actual facts by scientific professionals. Professionals like the social scientists that are publishing the many recent surveys which document the decline of Christian affiliation and church attendance.
These are good questions to be asking! There's a bit of straw-manning in these questions, but I'm certainly glad you're engaging with what we're saying. "We only know [the character and nature of God] through the Scriptures and the expositors of the Scriptures." This is not true. I encourage you to read "Question 2: The Existence of God" by Thomas Aquinas. He undertakes the goal of discerning the existence, and to some extent, the nature of God without using Scripture as the starting point (in an attempt to mitigate arguments like the one above). "The veracity of the ancient biblical writers and you modern preachers is what is being questioned by a literate membership." This is also not true. The wisdom of God is what's being questioned--and it's literally the oldest question in the book. "Did God really say...?" is how the Enemy of God has always attempted to rationalize mankind's substitute morality for God's wisdom and authority. "How can we believe people who don't understand the rudiments of scientific reality?" The Bible isn't a science book, and so its veracity is not contingent on its cosmology. However, a bit of historical humility is always good since even our contemporary cosmology is plagued by contradictions and unknowns. Human beings require a frame of reference to be coherent, and it in no way lessens the eternal truth of a thing simply because their worldview is separated from ours by many thousands of years. "How can we trust the character of people who admire human miscreants like Donald Trump?" This is the straw man. Not all conservative Christians support Donald Trump, and those that support him politically often have genuine reservations about his character. Like all things in the political sphere, a group's willingness to support a candidate is multivariate and more complex than ad hominem criticisms like what you've posted here. "Can a divine being such as the purported Holy Spirit really be inspiring this stupidity and immorality?" No, He certainly doesn't inspire stupidity and immorality. Human beings get that all on their own, at birth. That's one of the core tenets of our beliefs! :) "Most young people--even those homeschooled in the faith--will leave it because the appeal to biblical authority by Christian spokesmen can no longer compete with the appeal to actual facts by scientific professionals" This is a real challenge. I agree that conservative churches have been unwilling to have thoughtful engagement around hard questions, and it leaves young people feeling lost and doubting as they get older. However, I reject that the reason is that the church's answers to hard questions are unsatisfactory; I think that churches simply aren't engaging them in these questions. They abandon young people to figure it out on their own to disastrous consequences. All of the data are clear that young people are less happy, less connected, and less satisfied with life. Conversely, the people who are engaged in religious community are dramatically more satisfied in life. We have real work to do in engaging people's questions with kindness and forthrightness. Back to the original quote from the podcast, our point is that altering our theological stance to make it more palatable to a contemporary context is (we believe) wrong on a moral level (because it leads people into immorality). But it is also counterproductive. If a person wants to imbibe the modern, humanistic, progressive worldview--he has no need for the Church; if anything, it's an unnecessary speed bump. We believe that the Church has the answer to the question, "What is the path to real, full, and satisfying life." And that answer is accepting the grace that comes from the death and resurrection of the God-man Jesus, and walking faithfully in the Kingdom principles he so beautifully described in Matthew 5-7 and embodies. Any failure of the contemporary (or historical) Church to not walk faithfully in that path isn't a poor reflection on what Jesus taught and models, but reinforces that humans are fallen by default and can only walk the path of life by grace through faith. -- I know this is long, but I wanted to thoughtfully (and hopefully respectfully) engage with your questions. I really do appreciate you engaging with the channel.
The real reason tuition is so high for both Christian and secular universities is because they have created huge numbers of high salaried administrative positions given to political hacks and cronies who contribute nothing toward the education programs. In the old days, there might be one administrator for every hundred professors. Today, the ratio is one on one. This so-called business model - - with its glut of administrators who serve no purpose - - is ubiquitous in universities across the nation. This is what exhorbitant tuition is actually paying for. Meanwhile, professors everywhere are being pressured to water down the subject matter for students who would have flunked out if they had matriculated ten years ago.
This is prection the importance of christ.Jesus is our only way through christ who is all we have have in this worid.There will come a time when all will fall to their knees and proclaim jesus is lord of all.
Evangelism is not the problem. Few people alive have not heard the good news. Lack of community is the biggest reason people don't like to go to church. Why bother when church is only : hear about your sins; give us some money; then go home. Who spoke to you? Who smiled? Who gave you a reason to come back. 100 families rolled through for trunk or treat, 5 show up church over the next 3 Sundays. That was the entire goal, now what are you doing to keep them? If the only answer is to teach them about the gospel, it will not take long to lose those new families. Also it would stand to reason that more conservative churches are shrinking at a slower rate only due to being smaller. Example: 100 person church loses 5 families of 4, they drop 20 percent. An older conservative church that gave up on out reach years ago has stabilized at 20 members. Then 1 member dies. That's only a 5 percent decline. The only way that church is ever growing again is through the great "sheep shuffle".
The only churches that are growing (through conversion rather than transfers) are the ones that are intentionally evangelistic. This is a small number of church--less than 10%. These are empirical data points. However, your point is not wrong that churches that don't focus on fostering deep relationships and genuine, Biblical fellowship will not be able to retain people even if they come to the church via outreach. This is a consistent theme in our training and podcast. Your point re: decline in liberal vs. conservative churches is not true. Liberal mainline denominations have been bleeding congregants at a rapid rate for nearly two decades. Unfortunately, the rate of decline in more conservative churches has risen. The reasons are multivariate, but the solution is an external focus.
thanks for the topics discussed really helping me gain insight on other factors as well concerning the church and remaining relevent to the call of the Gospel and not just culture of today. God bless.
"The pressure will follow you." With respect to your point, no, it won't. I work a 50 hour a week job as a public school teacher. Ministering as a bi-vocational pastor is literally the only thing in my world that stresses me out.
I love coffee and snacks, in fact I’m in the hospitality ministry. But I agree about that the more I read the Bible, the more awe and reverence I have in being in the Presence of the Lord.
Thankyou for your faithfulness passion. Am thinking in the next coming year or so i will look into securing funding to invite you here. Greetings and prayers for the Malphrus group from PNG.🙂🙏
Choose public school teaching if you want to make a real impact. The American church is a gonner. I'm a fulltime teacher and a fulltime pastor, and I prefer public school teaching any day over working with church people.
Let the light of Jesus Christ shine more. This episode 215 was such a blessing. Lets continue to worship God in Spirit and in truth n cut out lil foxes that hinder true communion. You both were examining your own faith through This episode and it takes a lot of humility to Have Said, what you said And accept that culturally you may have made exceptions. 1.The early church met for Teaching and the preaching with communion and prayer. Acts2:42 2. We are by Christ "ekklesia" called out. People not to be like the world, but to follow the pattern that God has given in Jesus ( 1 Peter 2:9) 3. This is a heavy one if Jesus himself did not do His own will but He did the will of the Father, my main concern for the church will be If our own preferences are dominant over what Jesus modeled for us. Our way our preference or Jesus way- which was John 5:17-19 Brothers and sisters. They will come a day that Jesus himself will separate the sheep from the goats. Sheep hear the voice of the shepherd goats do not. We don't want to be The people of matthew 7:21 where it says " Not everyone that said to me. Lord lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Our faith was never designed to binconstable but alive. A life of giving up our will for the will of God. Romans 12:2
Sometimes people get burned out with volunteering. I am a single Mom and volunteered for a long time but had to back off because I am now working 2 jobs and still raising my teenager. I am a musician and rarely got paid for doing ministry either. It was disappointing in some ways and in other ways it was a blessing.
Power corrupts, & absolute power corrupts absolutely. Biden's minions running interference for his crimes, smuggling 8,500 BOXes of classified documents, when he was just a senator, storing them at Delaware University, is living proof. Where is the raid on his house?
