I am installing 4 of these rmb-1. I have been searching for part 2 and I cannot locate it on the web or the RU-vid page. Could you send me a link to the additional information video please
We are referring to the boiler technology in the firing rate. Many of the newer wall-hung type boilers have a turn down ratio. For our example of 10-1, if the maximum btu firing rate was 100,000 BTUs per hour, then the lowest would be 10,000 BTUs per hour.
The 4 and 8 is referencing pipe diameter so if you have 1" pipe, it would mean 4" and 8". Anyway, the 4 and 8 references before any other fitting in the pipe whether it is a tee, elbow, coupling or even a valve. This design is to have the proper type of flow internally as well as the hydraulic isolation desired.
If you're fine feeding the same water temp to all your low-temperature loops (e.g. radiant floor heat), set-it-and-forget-it mixing valves are the way to go. Slap a dumb circulator in there with some zone valves and you're off to the races. Budget permitting, there's the dream: independent digitally controlled injection pumps per-zone (or group of zones). Honestly, as cheap as circulators are these days it's not _that_ cost prohibitive, and is the design I'm leaning towards for my dream house in a few years. Last I checked, a digitally controlled circulator is cheaper than an electronic mixing valve. Is it overkill given the thermal mass of a concrete slab? Almost certainly. Does it mean I can go wild with building unnecessary software solutions in search of perfectly even heat with zero "bang-bang" control logic? Yes.
First of all, thanks for watching our Taco Tuesday webinars. Th answer your question, in order to find the pressure drop of this device, the manufacturer gave us the data in Cv. Cv is the amount of flow in gpm through a device that will yield a 1 psi loss. The formula to find that pressure drop in foot of head is: Pressure drop = (calculated flow/Cv)squared x 2.31. This example, the calculated flow is 61.5 gpm, the Cv is 50 therfore, pressure drop = (61.5/50)squared x 2.31 I hope this helps
@@TacoHVACtv Thanks for the reply! However I still have trouble understanding. Let's break it down. A Cv of 50 means 50 gpm will yield a drop of 1 psi. If 50 gpm will yield 1 psi, how much psi will 61.5 gpm yield? Well it should be 61.5 gpm / 50 gpm * 1 psi = 1.23 psi = 2.84 ft?
The formula to find the pressure drop based upon Cv = ((flow/Cv)squared x 2.31 =50/65 squared x 2.31 = 3.9 ft of head You missed the square part and multiply by 2.31
how you deal with vaulted ceiling heat loss or gain calculation ? does heat loss stay the same with flat ceiling and vault ceiling if outside wall and roof stay the same?
Thanks for watching episode 1 of Taco After Dark, greatly appreciated. When it comes to a heat loss in a room with a vaulted ceiling, the first part of our calculations in the air infiltration, you need to find the cubic foot of air in the room to perform the proper calculation. We can break out the geometry lessons from high school to find it or we can do an average, remember our calculations in this exercise are approximates and have alot of assumptions that will help us on the high side of the numbers. Same would be true of the outside walls that have exposure with the vaulted ceiling. For example, if the outside wall had a vault to it (one side was 8' high and the opposite side was 12', you could assume the wall to be 10' high and get close to the calculation. or break the wall into two pieces, a wall 8' high and a triangle (geometry) and add the numbers together
Thank you so much for that thoughtful and thorough reply to my earlier post! On point 1, I have verified on the installation diagram which is the supply and which the return port for my Burnham ES 24. It is clear that the expansion tank is installed near the supply port, while the circulator has been installed just before the return port--but facing in the wrong direction, pumping against the return flow! From what you have said, I am convinced that it was simply a sloppy mistake by the installer, and that I should reverse it. (And of course, I won’t blame you if I go wrong.) It might or might not make sense to seek the opinion of a local tradesman. If I had someone I knew I could trust, in respect to knowledge and fair practice, I might try it. But I don’t, and I’ve just seen too much sloppy work around here already. So far I have saved a lot of money, learned a lot, and gotten a lot of satisfaction by maintaining this system myself. Given the price tradesmen charge out here on Cape Cod and my status as fixed-income retiree, this is the most sensible way for me to operate. The two previous circulators have lasted for 7 and 8 years. I don’t consider that too bad, although I'd like better. I noticed that it runs quite hot, almost too hot to touch. I am hoping that after I reinstall it in the correct direction, it might have less work to do against gravity and possibly run a little cooler and last longer. What say you? I will look into your other suggestions about getting better performance. As I have just bought a new 007 F5, I am going to stick with it for now. I will consider the new 007e when, and if, I have to do another replacement. Thanks again! You’re the best company I have worked with at least for the last 40 years. You just don’t get knowledgable technical advice like this anymore, especially as a consumer-homeowner who does his own repairs.
You are very welcome and I hope it gets corrected. As for the surface temperature of the 007, yes they get hot. It is pumping 180F degree fluid and that water is designed to lubricate and cool the bearings. So a high surface temperature is normal
Thanks for that lesson! My Burnham ES 24 gas boiler was installed in 2009. It has a single Taco 007 F5 circulator on the return side and four Taco zone valves (3 heating zones and an indirect water heater). The weird thing is that the circulator is installed to pump against the return flow. I noticed this the first time it broke in January 2016. The arrows on the zone valves all point toward the return side of the boiler and the arrow on the circulator points the other way (against the return flow). But I decided I better put in the replacement one in the same (backwards) direction, because it worked fine for 7 years and "if it ain't broke don't fix it." The fix worked and lasted 8 more years. The circulator broke again on March 1, 2024. I just installed the replacement--again in the same backwards direction. It works fine and my hot water is back. . . . . But I'm wondering would I get better performance and use less gas and electric if I reversed the pump direction? Is that safe to try, or could I possibly damage something else in the system? One other thing: When the circulator goes bad, I still get heat in the house but no hot water. The pipes to the hot water tank are hot but the return pipe is just warm. Also: I've always had a water hammer when we shut off the hot water anywhere in the house. Could that be caused by the circulator running in reverse? I'd appreciate your suggestion on reversing its direction. Thanks.
Thanks for watching one of our Taco Tuesday webinars, greatly appreciated. You have a few questions here I will address. 1. Circulator placement in regards to the boiler can be an installer preference or wherever the expansion tank is placed in the system. The boiler ports will also be labeled as supply or return. Reversing that flow is not recommended unless the boiler manufacturer explicitly says you can, I will assume you shouldn't due to the labels on the boiler. The "Supply" port is the supply out to the house and water should be leaving the boiler here. "Return" will be water that has given up its heat to the house to be reheated. Confirm the direction with the installation. There is also a directional arrow on the circulator 2. I don't know if your system is piped correctly nor do I know if you would get better performance and use less gas if it piped backwards. That would be a better question for the boiler manufacturer. The electricity consumption would be the same, a 007 uses about $30-40 of electricity a winter. There are option for the newer ECM variable speed circulators like the 007e that could cut electrical consumption quite a bit especially in a system like your with zone valves. 3. The heat you are getting on the house when the circulator is not working is what we call "gravity flow." Hot water will rise and cold water will fall in the heating pipes since the boiler is in the basement and the heating zones are above it. You don't get hot water since the indirect tank is probably on the same level as the boiler. 4. Water hammer in the plumbing in the house is not due to the boiler or the circulators but you could add an expansion tank or water hammer arrestors in the plumbing pipes to alleviate the noise. 5. Now this wasn't a direct question, but if you are looking for more fuel economy, consider adding and weather responsive controller that could modulate the boiler temperature. Depending upon the controller used for your zone valves, it could be a simple add-on controller we call the PC-700 pulse.ly/m2cn26vz9x And then the last comment I have is about having to replace your circulators. Please confirm the direction it is pumping in, maybe with a hydronic professional and also consider taking a look at the water quality that may be causing the premature failures of your circulators. If you need to find someone in your area to help, take a look here pulse.ly/aenbvogm9w
We apologize for the delay in getting back to you about this. Here is a link for that video apps.taco-hvac.com/training/Change_Mechanical_Seal_TA_Pump/learn.html
have only ran out of hot water twice in 11 years with a buderus s120 (32gals) piped with 3/4" to/from. i'll redo the math from this lesson, but i might need 1" to/from. Quite informative, thank you
@@TacoHVACtvactually, yes. Im looking to do manifold home-run setup for finned baseboard heaters in a zone, that way all heaters get same inlet temp as opposed to diminished inlet temps in the present series configuration. Is there a guide for calculating sizing for supply/return for the manifold, and the individual pipes for each home-run? thank you.
@timp.9582 To take this in a different direction than the webinar presented here you may want to take a look at the Taco After Dark series that will walk you though all of the steps needed. For your particular project, watch episodes 1-3. Episode 1 discusses heat loss and how to calculate it, Episode 2 reviews heat emitters and how to size them and then episode 3 with review how to size the pipe based upon the calculated flow rate needed that you found in 1 and 2. Take a look here and look for Taco After Darkpulse.ly/wya36goptv
@@TacoHVACtvThank you for your reply. The heat loss is informative, did it years ago, but it doesnt hurt to have a re-review of it. Ya'll have done a fantastic job with all of these workshops/webinars. BTW, i see Dave Holdorff is one of the trainers. Dave was 3yrs ahead of me at Ft Schuyler.
Watching this makes me think that I just stroke a gold mine! Much appreciated! I'm not even a plumber or heat specialist. Subscribed! I was learning the system, and found a number of issues. Very happy to see you covered circulator speed selection, as my plumber who installed the system had it set to speed 3, and learning about all those delta T and how to read system pressure drops and pump gpm vs pressure drop, I realized that it had to be set to speed 1. Besides that the boiler is way oversized, and I might be looking into installing buffer, and you covered how to calculate the size and all. Very good teacher, you made my day. Fingers crossed I'll find more of your stuff on youtube.
wondering why they recommend piping the indirect off of the primary loop rather than after the hydraulic seperator off the system manifold. Ive seen many and even have installed a few years ago after the seperator and they work just fine as far as I can tell.
@bryanswanson5007, first off, thanks for watching Taco Tuesday, greatly appreciated. To answer your question, it is suggested to take off for the DHW indirect tank tank first to allow all of the energy the boiler is making goes to generating hot water for the house. It will depend upon several factors like the size of the indirect tank and the size of the boiler. It may also lie with the control sequence that the boiler manufacturer has in their control logic. And that is the beauty of hydronic heating, we have lots of options to achieve the same thing!
Question. what controller would I use and how would it be wired if I had 4 zones (4 circulators) and on each zone manifold I wanted to use actuators to split the zone into separate sub-zones each with its own thermostat. can you do a video on that?
@abacojack13 Thanks for watching Taco Tuesday, greatly appreciated. There are several ways this wiring can be completed. The first is if the manifolds are remotely located. I would install a zone valve controller (ZVC) at each manifold location, thermostats and actuators wired at that location. Then take the end switch wire from each ZVC and bring it to the mechanical room where the circulators are. At that point, you would need a switching relay (SR) to handle the 4 circs. That end switch wire will then go to the TT terminal for the corresponding circ.
The second way is if the manifolds are near the circulators, then you would need a ZVC for each manifold and the corresponding circ would then be wired to the ZVC
I would like to know if using a 0015ECM for a wood boiler Is better that the 2400WB pump. I have a total of 190’ of line. In and out at 1” ID. I would like to save on amperage and heat generated from the pump.
The 0015e3 is a much smaller circulator than the 2400wb. The high efficiency model that is equivalent would be the 0034e. However, you should check with the boiler manufacturer if this circulator is adequate for the flow and head needed
The pressure differential will depend upon what circulator and what setting it is in. If pumping away from expansion tank, the suction would be 20psi and if pumping into the expansion tank, the pressure at the discharge would be 20 psi. The corresponding discharge and suction would be dependent of the circ
If you are looking to install the sensor for the SmartPlug, it will go on the hot water supply that feeds the fixtures in your home. Not to close to the water heater, at least 18” away is minimum distance
buuuuuuttt what happens when all 3 zones are calling for heat at the same time? can one circ pump handle all that baseboard at once? i have been having issues with navien combi boiler not being able to satisfy all 3 zones :(
That is where the math is most important that you have selected the correct circulator to handle all three zones. Doing the math will reveal what flowrate is needed for each zone, adding them together as well as calculating the associated head loss for each zone. The math in this webinar starts at the 9 minute mark.
Jeriah, There are several manufacturers of buffer/DHW tanks out there. Why are they not more common? As we see the trend of low temperature hydronic heat emitters and space constraints, the popularity of these tanks may rise.
Can you provide some examples of mod con boilers that you know to be compatible with variable speed primary pumps? It seems like a lot of manufacturers recommend against it
Hello Dave, the boiler manufacturers that we referenced in this presentation are Burnham and Lochinvar, but that does not limit other manufacturers, these are just the two we referenced. We do work with many of the boiler companies and provide variable speed circ to them. However, even though our circs are variable speed, they can be setup as a fixed speed circulator and provide the flow the boiler manufacturer is looking for across the heat exchanger.
Hello Jose, yes of course it is always easier when working with a pump in this condition and yes it is always harder when there is corrosion involved. If all working pumps were in this condition for the entire life of the pump, it would be a perfect world. However, in this video, we wanted to show the correct method and steps to replacing a seal kit. Thanks for watching
Are the valves and sensors the same between Lack Breaker and Leak Breaker with WiFi the same? I would like to upgrade to the Wi-Fi version but not if I have to change the valve.
Correct, the controller is different. The LeakBreaker with eLink will email and text when there is an activation and moisture sensed at the sensor. Same valve, motor and floor sensor is used between the two.
Hi Pete, I have the very same thing in my house, you can have your zoning with zone valves as well as circulators. However what is not typical is that on a zone, you should need a zone valve AND a circulator. I have seen installations like this and it installed in this manner to prevent gravity hot water flow in a zone when that zone was not calling for heat. The zone valve acted as a positive shut off. I would have installed a check valve on the system after the zone circulator. If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to contact our Technical Services Team at Taco.
I think this is a tremendous resource. I think it would be more easily digested if you recorded your episodes without the commentary from the people watching. And kept the episodes under 30 mins.
Thanks for watching the Taco Tuesday webinar. Austin, pressure drop is the number we calculate for the frictional losses of the piping system when trying to move the water through those pipes. It includes the length of pipe, any fittings and valves as well as any other components in the system.
Hi Munir! We always recommend that an NPSHa (Net Positive Suction Head available) calculation be performed on all system types (including closed-loop systems).
Hello there, I really enjoyed and appreciate the data in this video. I have a gas boiler, and an indirect tank. It has its own thermostat on it. I had a second tank installed. I learned the hard way that it had to have its own thermostat to talk to the boiler. Done. Now the big problem is my renter gets 1/3 of a tub of hot water for her bath. The companies here have not been able to figure out why. I am really curious how you would install a system like this. Absolutely nothing available online. It would be great. I can send digital photos, drawings, whatever you like. Let me know please, and thanks again.
Indirect tanks for hot water generation connected to a boiler have specifications based upon the amount of hot water it can generate. The biggest factor is the size of the boiler. Most residential boilers are just big enough to handle one indirect tank for a family. Adding two; the size of the boiler must be calculated properly in order to handle the load in order to create enough capacity. Let us know where you are from and maybe we can connect you with a contractor we know in your area that can help.
