Interesting instrument! After some research, I recently discovered that it was used by Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark in some of their songs (Electricity, The Misunderstanding, …). I spent years trying to reproduce THAT sound with different types of synthesizers, without success. Some days ago, after having finally understood that that sound comes from the Selmer Pianotron, I found a video from a guy selling his Pianotron and showing the conditions of the instrument, playing each single key (most of the keys were broken). Well, I sampled the best sounding notes with my Roland S-550 sampler, obtaining a not-so-bad playable patch. Unfortunately the audio in the video was very poor quality, so my result too is not so hi-fi as it should be… Your Pianotron seems in very good working conditions and it sounds crystal clear: it would be nice to sample it! EDIT: I read better the description of your video: I might be interested in the VST and how you create it. Although my setup is completely dawless at the moment
You have ordered the vintage vibe piano? I'll try to do a comparison soon. My vintage vine piano is an early one and has been well played so has lots of parts updated. I think learning about the setup will give you the best idea of the range of sounds you can get and set up for the sound you want.
Thanks for posting this. I've been thinking about something similar for a while now but your design is much simpler. Simpler being more elegant. The only thing I'll add is some sort of marking for fret positions.
I'm curious why you used brass round and not half round. Wouldn't half round be a lot easier for this since it would set flat? I don't know much about pedal steels, but that also looked really big to me, in diameter. I did not know about the friction thing, that's good to learn. I have a vintage clavinet (that I have no business owning with my current skill level, but I still love it), and it has a brass rod for the bridge. It's diameter seems much smaller, and it's also just floating. (There's sort of a slot in the body it rests in, but the string tension is what holds it on.) (For a clavinet, you can think of it as an electric guitar that is only played with hammer-ons, so there's not really a nut.) I do have vague plans, in my head at least, to try to do what you're doing, but for a clavinet; make a really cheap DIY version, and a video or videos on how to do it. So I really enjoy your videos, and I'm watching closely for ideas to steal!
Hi - Some good points here. I think half round could work and you are right it would be easier to attach. I think the reason I went with round was that is will press into the wood and create a high pressure connection. I could be wrong - but think if the contact pressure is low such as over a larger area there is potential for it to buzz and lose energy and not sustain. I am sure some glue would solve that if it were a problem though. When I created the bridge it set the height of the strings, so I selected a nut diameter that would give level strings relative to the body. I also wanted a large diameter as the string needs to be slide over this when bending the notes - but also the string needs to bend into the shape of the curve. It needs to bend the strings into the curve it is - so the less the bend the less energy lost. All pedal steels seem to use rollers on the nut - there there is a chance that this part will be revisited if there are issues tuning. When I started trying to make an electric piano - the first advice I got was try a clavinet first. I think I should have listened. It is on my long list of things to try and make - so hopefully i'll steal some ideas back haha. Skill wise - I have no business owning half the instruments I have - but I enjoy them which is the important thing!
@@deancoyle There are at least to bulging caps, but they are linked to the second audio output, they should not influence the first output, I think. I'll have to take it to assistance. I did a bad deal buying it. I could have got one in a better condition if I were willing to put up a few more bucks. I hope that at least it won't be too expensive to fix it. It's a fine instrument.
Sounds like it could be that then, most vintage stuff needs some cap work, its a good skill to learn. Even stuff I have bought as working has needed a recap.
Great video! I loved the polishing process and end look! I wonder whether you drilled the holes before cutting the outside shape would make it easier to make all the pieces uniform, if that makes sense?
Yes there is definitely room for improvement here, though I file a central ridge for the string later, as long as that is the same then it should be good.
@@deancoyle awesome, thanks for the reply! I was thinking about getting a UA Dream pedal but i think i'm gonna go with this one, headphone jack is a plus too. Also I like the idea of a pedal preamp because i can keep my stage 73 restoration to the original passive electronic spec!
I think you are doing great. I have a masters in machine engineering and fully support your process 👍 Maybe use a bit more lubrication when drilling and cutting? 😊 To get next level coherrence between identical parts it is common to crate jigs that ensure every action is identical, but that can be extremely time consuming and would be overkill in this case IMO. Looking forward to the rest of the build
Thank you for the tips! yes when I was making a piano every part needed to be designed and then a process / jig needed to be designed to ensure that each part was identical. More Piano build coming soon shhh.
Yes the strike line is very important - I have a video where i a build a giant tine and you can feel the spot where it should be struck. I believe its 1/3 along, and this creates equal angular moment in both directions so all the energy is absorbed into the correct tine motion!
Very nice experiment and thank you for doing this and showing it to us!. In my opinion there is a problem with this configuration. A lot of magnets, as you show it, push your strings very much down. So the magnets do now allow the string to vibrate as it should and also for much less time. So this may maybe improve the strength of the signal on the beginning, but the string are not gonna vibrate too long and you will loose on sustain. Another and the most importand thing, and i guess that is the reason why such pickups are never made, is that they access a big length of the string. So the string motion is getting destorted. Sorry for my bad english, but i hope you got what i mean. Anyway it is a good experiment :-)
If you use the initial pilot hole centered on the end that needs to be radiused, you could place it in a pin clamped at the right distance from the sanding wheel and then turn them through the arc. This will make the outside radius a constant distance from the inside hole and all ten should be identical. After that, you can enlarge the hole for the bearing.
@@deancoyle Not worth investing in casting tools for low production. The casting service isn't expensive. You can polish at home to save more. Doing the mold is the most expensive part. That part you can try to DIY.
If you got to choose 1 piano, and your budget allows, perhaps a Vintage Vibe piano with the optional variable voice control? It's built with replica Rhodes parts, so it'll sound more like a Rhodes, but the variable voice control & EQ, when properly set, can get the sound pretty similar to a Wurlitzer tone, or to just about any Rhodes sound.
very cool to see it coming along! the aluminum parts look very nice. id be wary about wear if youre going to have the strings sitting directly on top of the 3d printed parts. keep up the good work homie 👍
I've noticed matching bands of sound in the 7-10 khz range directly above many of the notes of my Wurli. Wondering how normal that is. I looked at your note comparison around 6:12 and saw the clean note has nothing above 3.5 khz, while the first note has many bands all throughout the spectrum to where the sample cuts out at 16khz. In my case, I did notice that these sounds are mechanical in nature since they sound even with the instrument off. Curious if you know what that might be?
Hi That is a good question. I agree though there shouldn't be much high frequencies generated. Usually the Fourier transform gives two peaks. The fundamental and an octave above for a single note. I am not an expert but feel free to email a recording and ill do my best to give my opinion. The best place to ask this is one of the facebook groups - facebook.com/groups/516634768819682 or facebook.com/groups/516634768819682 ( Ah i see you have already posted there) But those group have some real knowledge - though do also take it with a pitch of salt as there a few ways to do most things. Looking at the post of a squeak during pedal release, I would be tempted to press with my finger (if it is safeto do so) each of the pivot points and see if that alters the noise. If you find which one it is -if its metal on metal drop a small drop of oil/grease (oil not wd40). If wood - does it need felt need replacing? Please do keep me posted on how you get on this this! Cheers! Dean
Good question. I would try a piano restoration shop. If you know the string size already they might be able to just sell you those. If not there might be some maths needed. Let me know if you get stuck .
I could be wrong but I think it has two uses. It reduces the stress when the time bends so they fatigue a lot slower. The other reason is that the connection between tine block and tine needs to be tight and even. If this is perfect you have a bad time that won't sustain. I think having the taper reduced the failure rate as it'd easier to have a good connection with a larger tine. The first fender Rhodes models had straight times though so it is possible.
@@deancoyle thanks! and what would happen if the oscillator fork (tine + metal rod) would be hard-connected to the wood frame instead of springs? would it kill the sustain or maybe cause some other effect?
@@deancoyle thank you. this piano is fascinating. i am just now discovering this. its crazy how they managed to find such a cool sound with such early tools
I am - it is my goal - though I think I am going to start from the beginning and apply what I have learnt to each part. When i started this I was only aware of vintage vibe making a small number of pianos. Rhodes have returned and I feel it would be better to drift a little from the mk1 Fender Rhodes design. I dont think ill post anything major soon.
I know I’m arrogant. I am a master carpenter at it for 50 years minus a stink in the army. I absolutely love you attitude towards tools and methods of work. I came for the info, I’ll hang for you I think. Much thanks.
That's a really cool project! Congrats on the build! I recently designed my own open source theremin that's cheaper and easier to build the PCB (you can do it at home) and it doesn't suffer from the aliasing issue open theremin exhibits when generating high pitch
excited to see you making progress! any reason in particular why you used treated lumber? i try to work with it as little as possible because pt is hell on your lungs and your tools without any benefits unless youre building a deck. im also a little worried about your headstock; theres going to be a lot of force from the strings pulling on it, and the way youve cut the wedge greatly weakened the headstock because of the way the grain is oriented now. it might not be a problem, but its something to watch out for. i wanted to build a pedal steel guitar too a couple of years ago and gave up because i didnt want to bother with figuring out and manufacturing the fiddly mechanisms, so im looking forward to seeing how you tackle everything. i ended up settling on a lap steel with palm benders, and ran into the same problems with finding tunings, too 😁
Sorry - For Stas' Piano i don't think ill have an update anytime soon - it's a shame as I feel he will have made some good progress. For mine - I am going to start a fresh and apply what I have learnt to each part.
Thanks for this project and documenting it. I build instruments including several single and double neck lap steels. I've thought about doing a DIY pedal steel, but have never really settled on a way to solve for the changer and pedals. Thought about bowden cables, thought about more traditional linkage, etc. Really curious to see how you go after that part of the build. Thanks again.
Roller everything and keep your string pulls as straight as possible if you want to keep strings from breaking. It also helps with tuning stability. You can also extend a string past the bridge and have levers operate on that segment, like a B bender on a Telecaster. Also it may be unconventional, but your tuning machines don't all have to be at the same end if it simplifies the mechanics and doesn't confuse the user too much.
@@deancoyle Rob Scallon did a fairly detailed video about a B bender Telecaster-type guitar. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2k4337pXrtQ.html (and the maker's video is ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vWiu05DflR4.html ) The idea is exactly the same as the levers on a pedal steel, except that there's only one, and you activate it by pulling down on the entire guitar (or conversely, pull up on the strap button). There are some other systems that have two or three but you need the right hand to operate all but one.
Great video, man... but... why not resume the electric piano project?... I really loved that project. I even bought the book "Classic keys, keyboards sounds that launched rock music" because of your first videos.
Hey the electric piano is still going on, I have been a bit busy the first half of this year, but will get some updates posted soon. Out of interest how is that book?
@@deancoyle I really enjoyed it. It is mostly about the history of several instruments from that time (50s, 60 and 70s mainly). It has design details, but it is not a DIY guide or deeply technical book.
Ooh! Hey, I might be able to offer something for this project, insight-wise. I found an antique pedal steel that was completely home-made. The notes were bent by little rods that went through the 'headstock' behind the nut. They had slots cut into the top, and then a roller in the slot made from the ball-ends of guitar strings. The pedals are just levels with cables, that connect to little levers under the rods that press the bottom of the rods and lift the string to the new pitch, based on a set screw.
