Really big differences between some of these stats. Weavile & Chien-Po really have massive special & physical attack stats. For an idea what about Pokemon that were hurt by the physical/special split like how Alakazam no longer ran the elemental punches
Your simulation doesn’t seem to take into account the relative level the players will be at in comparison, which is understandable, but as a result, it doesn’t really give an accurate representation of the challenge of the game. Not to mention the devs themselves have said they made the games easier over time, so your nostalgia argument doesn’t really hold up.
I don't agree that the games have gotten easier and I think the data backs that up. Also if I kept the levels the same as in the games then the champions would always be the best because they have the highest levels and I don't really see a point in that.
I would always get destroyed by flannery given at that point in ruby/emerald I would have grovyle, Aron, manectric , zangoose/loudred and no water type. Regularly resetting for good rng while getting obliterated by sun boosted overheats
The concept is fun, but without showing how the simulation works (doesn't seem to be in any of your other videos, since they are similarly short??) it almost comes off as some list you just came up with at the top of your head. It would also be fun to see all the Gym leaders ranked, even if you only talk about the winners (or losers I guess in this video) of each category.
I did rank every gym leader if you go back in my video history I separated them by generation. My methodology on how I create these lists is in the description of most of my videos and if you have any questions about it you can ask. I feel like it would be too boring to go over how I do it every video especially since it's an 11 part series.
Ashamed to admit that Marshall is a challenge every BW2 playthrough I do because I always end up using my favorite mons, in which 4 of them are dark type
I think it’s also because in the early games your far more likely to be under leveled challenging a gym in the new games you gain exp soooo quick not that it’s a bad thing removing the grind is good but they should compensate with the gym leaders more
You never really had to grind much, just don’t go out of the way to avoid trainers and you can end up beating them pretty easily. You can usually get away with constantly being a few levels under levelled as well. It’s especially relevant in the gen 2 remakes. You can get away with being ridiculously underlevelled for the elite four, and their pokemon are just so weak that it doesn’t matter.
If you judged a gym as good based on permanent sun, but you ran simulated battles without, than that doesn't mean you were wrong about the original gym's difficulty. Torkoal went from useless in VGC to a powerful Trick Room attacker purely from setting up it's own sun with Drought.
@@afro025 You also have to take into account the resources available to the players. Gen 9, being open world, opens so many options to catch and train pokemon up to higher levels.
@@classonbread5757 I could make the same kinds of arguments for Gen 4 and Gen 5 for why they're not even difficult, for example; You also gotta take into account absolutely *NONE* of the Gen 5 gym leaders use more than 3 Pokemon, which makes them laughably easy just like the Gen 6 gyms.
Would love to see the Gen 1-3 list, tho it was really interesting to see how many gen 9 mons appreciate the split. Would love to see how they'd do in ADV OU
The monthly OM in showdown is actually just reverting the physical special split. It's called type split. If u don't watch him PokeaimMD just did a video showcasing it.
Great vid. For a small channel, you put a lot of work into this. I really hope it grows, and I dropped a sub. Would be nice if you blurred the special stat of glimmora so I didn’t have to avert my eyes to try and guess :P
I think Gengar is one of the pokemon that benefits the least from the physical special split - in fact it might have slightly harmed him. Gen3 OU Gengar is one of the most centralizing and diverse threats in any pokemon singles metagame. Having access to Fire punch and ice punch hit from spatk is huge for ADV threats like Flygon, Salamence, Forretress, Skarmory, Metagross, zapdos, jirachi, claydol, magneton, aero, heracross, breloom, etc...
This isn’t necessarily true because you’re not considering the relative optimization that would occur. To see this, import this set into the damage calc: Gengar @ Leftovers Level: 100 Hasty Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - Sludge Bomb - Ice Punch - Fire Punch - Shadow Ball Then go and change Gengar’s base Atk stat to 130 and it’s base SpA to 65 (switch them), and make sure to max IVs on both. The reason this is representative is bc we’re directly comparing 2 of its (originally) stat-aligned coverage moves to 2 of its (originally) stat-misaligned STAB moves in this set. Since the moves are all ones whose category switched in later gens (unlike t bolt for example), we can switch the base stats to simulate the predicted change in outcomes based on a (future Gen) switch in stat-alignment and misalignment of these moves relative to each other when used on Gengar in gen 3. You can also do this with moves like hyper beam and thunder punch, but keep in mind that t bolt exists either way (and it won’t lose effectiveness with stat optimizations). Also, sometimes checking hidden power is useful since it’s reasonable to suppose that in a world where gen3 OU had the physical-special split that stuff like hp ice might get run on it. All things being considered, shadow ball becomes a much stronger threat. And at first, it’s not enough vs a number of the mons you mentioned… but now change the nature to adamant or even lonely (which are just ways to represent subsequent nature reinvestment that might be reasonably expected for some sets). This skews a couple matchups in favor of physical-special split gengar. Next, check some matchups it might gain favorability in. I’m not that experienced at gen3 OU tbh, so I might be way off here, but mons like starmie, celebi, and milotic come to mind here. I didn’t check if gengar gets ohko’d by their most common sets (which iirc might be the case for ones running psychic) so these might not change but you get the idea. We’re not done yet. Obviously, we have to compare to normal gengar (with stats as they actually are) and compare the best move’s damage range from the normal set vs the custom set in each matchup (opening two damage calculator tabs side by side is most efficient). You could spend a long time writing spreadsheet tables to figure out if the math agrees with your statement. I’m not really saying you’re wrong though, just that you *could* be wrong, and this is way to approximate “mathing it out” if you want to find out for yourself. I suspect that its good coverage moves do make an important difference, which means you’ve got a point. However, I also suspect that difference is less impactful than you might be thinking.
The point is that some of its moves get worse, but others get better, and some of its coverage remains unchanged (tbolt, psychic, hp ice, explosion, all status moves), and other than the reinvestment, still are very effective. It might make gengar more rounded actually, but that doesn’t necessarily make it worse.
@@holda2375 It's a really interesting question. With the prevalence of ttar, almost zero psychic types (metagross, jirachi, medicham all are neutral damage), and lack of many good targets (minus starmie and celebi you mentioned) most Gengar probably wouldn't run Shadow Ball in ADV OU if it were on the special side. If we give Gen3 Gengar special shadow ball (change it's type to a neutral type like electric and change shadow balls type to electric) we get things like this: 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 143-169 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO where a super effective coverage move like fire punch is a guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Gengar Fire Punch vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 180-212 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO I can't speak for later generations but Gengar would lose out for sure in Gen3 ou if there was the physical special split. Losing Fire and Ice punch hitting off the 130 special attack is huge. Both punch moves have very relevant 4x super effective targets (Forretress, Salamence, Flygon) as well as a ridiculous amount of 2x SE targets Anyways all this to say losing the special punches greatly outweighs getting special shadow ball. At the end of the day we are much better off clicking the SE coverage move.
I think the only mons that live the Zangoose hit without Unaware are Bastiodon, Avalugg-H and Regirock (Registeel is a roll at max Def) - also Clodsire still dies if it runs anything less than 248/16 oe.
Interesting. If I had to pick based on the ones I've personally had the most trouble with, it'd be: Viola Lenora Kabu Elesa Clay Ryme Tulip Blue Shauntal Marshal Lucian Lacey Cynthia This is all relative ofc, Cynthia is the only one of these who ever actually _challenged_ me. The rest were just, y'know, a little harder than the rest.
I just use python. We know the formula to calculate damage and what every mons stats are so all you have to do is plug in the teams and do a series of additions and subtractions.
Underestimated Toxipex bulk (said 5 flinched), overestimated Iron Valliant's non-STAB (thought 1 KO on Tinkatink) and thought Ghold would survive (half right. Ranges go stupid sometimes). On the others: Electivire is buns, and even then I still overestimated it (i thought at least 60%, c'mon bro). And Mienfoo got booted from LC a couple times iirc so it's clearly doing something right.
What top 10 😆 Thanks for continuing this series! The buildup of stats has been amazing, with the breakdown on power levels and which trainers are beating who. Always love to see my favorite trainer at the top as well 💪 Personally I love seeing the elite 4 members showing off their power, in the games they can sometimes feel lumped together and uneventful but this tournament gives their teams a chance to shine
Thanks for watching. It's always good when the data confirms your preconceived notions but it is also good when it shows you stuff you wouldn't have necessarily thought of at the start.
@@stoobydoobins I think the reason he doesn't is the more recent story approach to champions is narratively proclaiming them the greatest (sometimes they themselves say so.) which results in a bit of annoyance from most people. Good Champion, less than stellar way to present that champion that keeps him in peoples minds compared to say, Cynthia.
I think I just got lucky vs Leon. I don't remember the details but I remember being a little disappointed. I think I just happened to have an answer to everything he had.
It seemed like every trainers best win was against seibold so I was super curious where he ended up. Looks like the mono water teams are doing extremely well compared to the other gym leaders and elite 4 members.
Roller skating is a form of athleticism. They’re taking the generalized physical activity track but that clearly doesn’t resonate with everyone. But it’s why battle ballerina Hisuian Lilligant and Carnavale dancer Quaquaval are also fighting types. The topic is being broadened. Besides, it’s not like every gym leader has a hobby associated with their type.
A little late, but seeing as Gen 9 was included, I'd be interested to know where my Gen 9 boys Lokix, and Sandy Shocks ended up. Also, Shiinotic gives off the same feeling as Parasect in Gen 4 Ubers, which is fitting given that Shiinotic is Parasect's counterpart. XD
Lokix was 435th and Sandy Shocks was 57th. What makes lokix good is tinted lens plus first impression which doesn't show up in this simulation. Another good example from this gen is skelederge in ubers: normally a UU mon that can be used in ubers because of it's typing and unaware.
Off type Pokémon can work really well for gym leaders as long as they are faithful to the theme, Aarons drapion is a prime example of this. Faithful to the bug theme even though it doesn’t share the typing, it really spices up the battles imo. Also Crasher Wake at 13th overall 🤯 whoda thunk he was such a beast dang.
I know they wouldn't do it but I wish gamefreak went crazy with the difficulty for one game. I'm talking like ROM hack level difficulty and if doing stuff like this would get there I would love that.
