The only reason I even know Star Stable Online exists is because I watched Peter Knetter playing it like 7 to 6 years ago. I had no idea it was still ongoing and that people make essays about it? Crazy.
im kinda late on this video but what was also really important; sse started using 3rd party company for their support. Most of the time if you write a ticket you will not get a helpful answer, the people either dont know whats going on and keep forgetting what the previous email was about or they implemented bots (im convinced sometimes you speak to an actual human and sometimes you get the bot treatment). I've reported an issue about textures being misaligned and the person kept saying its a problem with my computer, after some back and forth i've sent them a screenshot from multiple devices and even a chat message of other people saying that they see it too, they finally responded with "i will send this to the team :)". Well its been literal YEARS, i think 6 actually, and the textures are still not fixed :p Maybe I am nitpicky but still after all this time? a simple texture alignment?
I mean, at least they TRIED with the candle. A little "I'm sorry"... It's the sentiment that counts, right? I think the intent was sort of sweet in a very awkward and backwards way
I'm a long-time Neopets player, and it's fascinating to see the parallels between Star Stable and Neopets. The site was acquired by JumpStart in 2014 and the fans were upset about old tech issues that hadn't been resolved, especially when they had to move servers from Viacom to Jumpstart. Huge parts of the game like Keyquest and Habitarium never came back after the transition, which had fans really upset. Then there was the NFT grift, dubious merch...the list goes on. Fans also had issues with chat filters on the neoboards, especially now that a large majority of the player base are adults, although I think that's been addressed somewhat. I think they've changed ownership since Jumpstart, but it's interesting to see how SSO has similar issues to Neopets.
I remember when beta meez was coming out they were saying it was because of the decline of Java script and it was a really bad reset because they had to remove the best things about it when customizing avatars like animations. I agree definitely with the whole aiming for the mobile crowd in the mid 2010s they took a chance and just displeased majority of the users because it became so so bland…. Kinda like how everyone is talking about why is everything so bland now unlike the y2k era. Kinda glad this site died though 😭 definitely spent way too much money on it but it’s all I played haha I moved up in life once it disappeared but hey I still miss it and definitely have Meez cards in a drawer somewhere
Correction, Herman and Lisa is part of main story. Not time limited event. All horses are available in the game, there are a few magical horses that comes back on rotations. But they return. Very few gen 1 and gen 2 horses are beeing removed from buying but if u own them u can keep them. The subscription is not monthly, u can get a lifetime sub and that includes a weekly allowence of 100 sc
Imo female only avatars are just. Such a negligible issues. Tbh if the game is designed around girls then male avatars (especially fashion) just ends up lack luster. I'm a bi trans guy and almost always play female avatars anyways because the fashion sucks for guys and most male avatars are so hyper masculine it makes me uncomfortable. There's also soooo many fucking games with male only avatars just leave devs be, especially if the male avatar would be such a big project.
My partner has been playing SSO for years, it's so cool to see a comprehensive video about it! She prefers a more masc avatar so she is all about the events that reward facial hair cosmetics 😄 Last time I checked, she was rocking a massive Santa beard from a holiday event.
The penny girl book club is something I remember being advertised a lot locally where I grew up in Norway. I remember several of my classmates being subscribed to it and getting books from them regularly through mail. It was very likely a mostly Scandinavian thing considering its popularity and normalcy from my memory.
As someone who grew up playing SSO with friends who were horsegirls, the game started to decline when they changed Loretta to no longer be mean anymore iirc. It all went downhill from there, in my opinion.
I honestly believe that if Fortnite wasn't so popular back in 2017, the sso artstyle would be drastically different as the graphics changed to a more fornite-ish style that exact same year when mistfall released. The game went from 2000s realism to Fornite cartoonish. Game have to change, yes. But people wanted an updated and higher quality SSO realism artstyle and not the artstyle to change 180 into a weird fortnite artstyle. This just makes the game look copy paste from all the other games that released that time and not the unique, one of a kind style that the old SSO had.
I have been a player since 2013, at first i would buy discounted star rider for 3 or 5 days, then a year or two into playing i got lifetime star rider for my birthday and got 3000 star coins with it. Since im 23 now i don't play all the time and don't participate in all events, but i do like the way the graphics and gameplay have evolved. The old game does make me feel nostalgic a bit tho. When it comes to star coins, the currency you buy horses and some other things with, i can see that the prices have gone up over the years, for me personaly that is not a problem since i havent bought star coins since 2015. Like i said i don't play too often and i only buy one horse per a release so i never fully run out of coins. Subscription i got gives me 100 star coins a week. All that said i do think i would want more coins if i was younger and played the game more so i do understand the frustration of some parents. One thing that got me into the game was the story quests and other quests. Over the years those have gotten shorter and seem horribly made, old storylines don't add up and the npcs got stripped of their personality. The villans dont seem challenging or interesting either. I still love to take my horses for a stroll and do some quests.
The Characters from the Original PC ROM Games “Starshine legacy” are all in the online game “Star Stable” The Soul Riders are Lisa, Linda, Alex & Anne & their soul horses. In Star Stable you play as a Rare 5th Soul Rider & you save the island of Jorvik with the Original Characters from the Starshine legacy. The Avatar (our characters) just got a much needed update :) I think they look better now. Iv been playing since 2011 (I was 15) & for my 16th birthday I brought the lifetime membership & I’m still loving & playing the game today :) I love the game unfortunately I feel like the community (fellow players) are Toxic. They play the game all the time but complain about it all the time to🙄like nothing makes them happy? Lastly Star Stable is great at giving what the Players want🤗 they found a legal way😏 of giving us Spirit & Rain (from the movie “Spirit stallion of the cimarron”) which was a high request. They have since given us many Real life famous “Wild” Horses like Picasso, Sugar & Blue Zeus to name a few.
@@ottertalksgames but as a collector who never felt the need to re-buy this one And as the most nostalgic person i know it was still nice to see you play it 🤣
Always happy to help fellow gamers ☺️. Unfortunately it seems online there actually isn’t a way to completely restart the game from scratch and erase all data without damaging the physical cartridge. If playing on GBA, you could try holding all buttons down as the game is booting up, sometimes this works. If playing on an emulator, you should be able to access the save files and delete from there. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help 🥺
I've been an SSO player since 2015, so almost 10 years now. The game when I joined was wonderful. Great community, the devs were passionate and cared about the players' needs and ideas. Quests and content was amazing. Now, in 2024. Good god. It's nothing short of a shambles... Horses released every 6 weeks or so, maybe less. Other content and updates can be so lazy. The chat filter is ridiculously unsafe; it bans simple harmless phrases but allows words such as "n*nce". New outfits are well designed, but they cost you an arm and a leg for the whole set, possibly £20 worth of star coins in GBP (its too expensive in the free game currency, you'll be lucky to get 2 of 10-11 items in one item set). Very recently, they angered old and new players by sacking the Cloud Kingdom from the Rainbow/Pride Event in June 2024. They released rainbow sets for players and their horses though.The event as a whole was a multicoloured almighty cash grab. They've further angered players by not having a birthday event for their 13th Birthday this September. They are releasing a Medieval event, but the items, horses and pets to be released during this event are ridiculously priced. Well made items, perhaps, but again, another armour-coated cash grab. Example: Dragon pets are 1) Unrealistic, and 2) Will cost 450 star coins - 500 star coins cost, what, £8 GBP now!? It's impossible to survive on this game for long anymore without a subscription or money to buy the new content, the company don't care nor work on any older content so it's useless if you have no money or are just unwilling to pay for it. They've started releasing the equivalent of battle passes now to encourage players to play. Which in turn shows their desperation to maintain their player count. I myself rarely log in anymore, for boredom and frustration of the game, and the people I chat to when I am online, all just revel in the nostalgia and the game years ago in its prime. I love the game but I believe I'm just waiting for the kicker by the dev team to finally convince me to stop playing. Such a shame for a game with so much potential to fall into the money pit.
It’s honestly so sad, and I really feel for the players like you who have devoted so much time and love into the game. Yes, they really do need to turn it around soon! Fingers crossed for that 💕
I really hope SSO is able to 'fix' their game and make things work. This game is so cozy, there is just something magical about it. Can't really wait for the halloween event, it's my favorite event in SSO. Thanks for the amazing video essay! It's nice to hear someone's opininon who doesn't play the game, gives a new perspective
I'm still watching, but Star Stable has a lifetime subscription! My mother originally bought it for me in around 2014/2015 for I believe around 70 usd. At the time, i think it was totally worth it (as I still play). It is really nice to see someones point of view and analysis of the gane when they have never played. Especially as someone who has been playing the game for about 10 years and is a little jaded by change.
@@ottertalksgames this is kind of random but there's this game i really liked about unicorns called robot unicorn attack with a cool art style also I tried to find a video about the making of this game but I couldn't find one at all so if you made a video about it I think you'd be the first :)
I will always have a soft spot for this game. When I was little and playing this game years ago I bought a subscription but asked for a refund because my family was struggling and not only did they refund I got a lifetime membership 🥹
as a older player i have seen such a boom of rude and inappropriate players within ssos global chat. it breaks my heart to see what for me at least- was a bright fun game turn into this money hungry company that does not prioritize the safety of the younger players. sure im annoyed they aren’t marketing to us as older long term customers but id rather my game feel a little dull then see adults and children be so so nasty and invasive to each other
Yeah it’s a real red flag when games studios/devs begin to focus completely on new audiences and pulling in more new players, and pushing aside their long-term devoted fan base. The safety of chat dissolving in SSO is so crazy, right? How on earth these comments and phrases are slipping through the safety net is unbelievable.
I believe that horse club you mentioned, Penny Girl, was actually Pony Club; it was a monthly subscription for horse content here in the US. I had it for several years before they went out of business in 2011 I believe? They did ship the Star Stable games several times in their packages, it was definitely the highlight every time I got it 😅
Ahh Thankyou! I literally could not find ANYTHING on the internet about it, when I searched for it this was the only thing to come up. Thankyou for letting me know! 💕
I totally feel you on the subscription. I think these days we are all sick to death of everything being a subscription. I know they need to make money, but it's frustrating how there are so many things you can't just buy anymore. We're all so tired of buying products that are designed to NOT WORK unless we pay so many dollars a month, that when our silly lil' horse game demands it too, we get annoyed. At least they offer the lifetime option though.
Players uniquely romanticize nostalgia in the community. As evidenced by the plethora of SSO nostalgia creators. Not long ago the community had a large-scale scandal over a program which brought back 2016 SSO. Though it seemed to contain many Trojan viruses once put in a virus scanner. It later got taken down as it was considered a scam, given the payments you had to make to unlock the full game. It really does show how players are desperate for the old charm of the 2010s in the world of the 2020s. Ive been playing since 2019, even though i knew of the game since around 2013. Its unfortunate that most of the old developers have gone onto better, brighter things and that their ideas have been thrown in the trash, essentially.
Yes I think I read somewhere about a remake that was full of some dodgy viruses. Hopefully someone has the resources to bring it back for the older players!
Another thing I'd like to add is that still to this day, SSO is the only game of it's kind. It is the only big rpg horse game in the world, and if people wanna play a game like it, they kinda have no other choice, no matter how unsatisfied with the actual game they may be. That's why SSO still has such a huge playerbase despite all the issues and dissatisfaction. I'm certain a big majority of players would switch to a different game if they had the option, it's just that there is no such option. What the game needs at this point in order to improve is a competitor.
I clicked on this vid hoping it was about that reddit post where you asked for opinions, and i was right haha. Glad to have seen my paragraph included there. But yeah apart from all the corrections that have already been said, this game nowadays is lacking the mysterious and unique vibe it always had with the graphics. I love the new horses and their realistic approach, but with them having pumped out so many in such a short time, they were all left unfinished - either the coats didn’t look great, or the animations were absolutely sh*t and broken/unrealistic as. Lately like super recently they’re FINALLY realising all these shortcomings and it seems like from now on is the up and up of sso. I am still worried about their finances though. I feel SSE and many companies during covid took some very irresponsible decisions when it came to finance, except SSE kept making these terrible decisions constantly, and exactly as that comment in the vid said. Biting off way more than they can chew. Also them buying all these expensive figurines and doing up their offices has contributed to their financial lack. They need someone to help them sort their priorities and finances better, and I’m hoping they still have time to fix all of those and not have to shut down.
Ahh nice, thanks for watching! I always like to have actual player input especially for games that I haven’t personally played, so thankyou so much for your input it was really helpful when building an accurate picture of SSO. Hopefully the last couple of years have given the kick up the butt that they needed to get everything sorted.
As someone who played StarStable since 2018 i still play it nowadays and i spend a lot of money on it which i dont regret cause its fun but they are indeed very needy and greedy for money and the last updates we're not that good. They completely scratched the rainbow realm this year which is a summer event, they changed the starrider stuff not long ago. They are just giving themself a stab everytime
Absolutely, if it brings you joy and makes you happy there is no reason to regret! I really hope the last few years and voices of players help them make good decisions going forward.
4:41 I've been playing since 2015 and I can safely say that they do take feedback, but mostly just positive feedback. 11:07 While I do love that they kept a lot of the same characters I am not personally a fan of the recent redesigns they did of the characters, especially the main 4 soul riders which you befriend in the game. Their redesigns are so vastly different from their original character designs they feel like very different characters, especially Lisa who went from a cool, almost punk rock looking girl to a texan western girl (?? why tho) and same goes with the dark riders, you have sabine who went from this classic dressage snobby girl who used to rival Anne but now she's this big muscle mommy (like she's hot but I just don't like the drastic change) and that's not to talk about all the sudden changes to the story. If I started a new account the story would not be the same as it was in 2015. Back in 2015 you don't even meet the soul riders till a bit later, you arrive at Moorland alone. But now I see that you meet them off the bat at some kind of childish summer camp at Moorland. I feel like it's lost it's charm. And that's also not to talk about the graphics that changed from a charming realistic but stylized style that immersed you into the world of jorvik to a lifeless plastic fortnite looking style which really makes you feel like you're actually just playing some fortnite horse game and not transported into the world of Jorvik. And you can also feel how much they try to force you to buy star coins in the game, you are only allowed to have 10 000 jorvik shillings at one time, but you can have unlimited star coins which are expensive. And a lot of things in the game will cost like 9000 jorvik shillings, at the same time saving up that much money can take hours upon hours. Instead of releasing actual game content like quests, we just get more and more horses that feel rushed, not polished at all. And a bunch of clothing items etc that are all expensive. I mean come on, one horse is ca 900 star coins, if you have star rider you get 100 star coins a week, THAT'S 9 WEEKS TO SAVE UP TO 1 HORSE!!!! And when they do finally give an update with quests, the quests are just fetch quests and 5 lines of dialogue. Some quests have really left me baffled, I really rode across the map for 5 lines of dialogue and only 100 xp? what!?
12:13 OH MY GOD DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE AVATARS. I don't see anyone talking about this but the latest update to the avatar is good don't get me wrong, but I feel like it lacks skinnier body types AND it has a HUGE flaw and that is our character's height, I mean what? WHY IS MY AVATAR WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BE A TEENAGER THE SAME HEIGHT AS GROWN MEN IN THE GAME? It really makes the horses look much smaller then they should be too. I walk next to the other soul riders and I'm atleast half a head taller. It's so weird
13:27 I think the arguing over gender is incredibly idoitic. I did not see anyone complain about not being able to play as a woman in Red dead redemption 2 for example. you play as a girl cause the game is about a SISTERHOOD of riders, not a brotherhood or a siblinghood. SISTERhood. And with so many games out there where you play as a man just let us have this my gods. But seriously though cause you can dress your character as a man in the game, you can even buy beards and mustaches, masks etc. And you don't have to be a woman to play as a woman in game! I've played multiple games where I only have the choice to play as a guy and I still love the experience. Even sometimes when given the choice I will play as a man because I'm not insecure about my gender identity.
22:14 for me personally the problem is that the entire world has become more cartoony in like texture and style, whilst it used to have a realistic texture and feel to it even if it was stylized. and then you have the horses that looked very cartoony before but now look more and more realistic (which I love) but it just feels like the world has gotten cartoonier while the horses got less cartoony and more realistic.
35:05 the divide honestly breaks my heart but also pisses me off, you have the passionate ones who criticize BECAUSE they're passionate and obviously want the game to succeed and be fun to play, and then you have the ones who have deluded themselves into believing that praising a multi million dollar company for every little thing they do, even when those things are bad to the game in the long run is a good thing, and then attacking anyone who dare have a different opinion cause then you're just being "ungrateful" (for what? an overpriced game? its insane) these toxic bootlickers will praise SSE like they're gods and then shut up anyone who dares criticize an extremely flawed game, even if it's constructive criticism it doesn't matter to them, they think you're evil if you're not a yes-man like them.
I was in the Pony Club growing up but only in it for the gifts and games and never the books lol. I LOVED the games and comics of course, they were an amazing adventure series and the lore of the comics was interesting to me while I was in the third grade. Anyway, almost two decades roll around and I don't really think of Pony Club anymore. I'm chilling in a Starlight Express Discord server and someone posts a screenshot with something along the lines of 'Check out my Star Sable horse' and it gut punches me all the way back in time. I have mixed feelings about the MMO since I had the original CDs but oh well.
The source that said it got simplified and such is 100% right and the reason I lost the fun to play it. I loved getting my reputation up everywhere.. When epona hit though (a new area), they increased the points for reputation you get at the NPC to unlock it... so all the work you did put in was basically catched up by everyone in a few days... Then they changed when areas are unlocked... leading to all areas being accessable much earlier as they decreased the level requirements for them... On top they literally made running around in said horsegame so much worthless. Back then different game-areas had their own transport system.. the harvest countries blue transporters, golden hills had red ones and silverglade and all around had pink one... you could not travel from a pink transporter to a blue one.. to get there you would have to (surprise) ride your horse around the world... in a horse riding game... or at least you had to ride to a farry and catch it to get to your destination and use the transporters there. Nowadays though all transporters around the map share the same system.. everything is connected and the only thing you need your horse for is doing races to level it to then buy a new one 🤑 It was a major part of the game to share a good laugh with your club bcs someone missed the farry.. took the wrong one... etc etc. Same for the introduction of the "global shop" - an icon in your interface, allowing you to buy everything around the island for tack clothing and also some pets with just one click no matter where you are. Meanwhile back then when you got some money you would ride around the island, exploring various shops with friends, asking people where you can get tack XY or ask your friends and buy stuff together or check out the mall, which back then was a big community center as it offered the most shops. For that though you also had to catch the bus with was coming every 5 minutes, and if you forgot your bus ticket... oh no.. Now there is no bus anymore, you can go to the mall everytime, and you do not need to have a bus ticket with you. And as there is a global shop, no one needs to go there anymore in the first place, same for every shop around the map... They just literally took core community features out that quite literally made the gameplay. Taking away all reasons to ride your horse around the island in a horse riding game is the biggest nonsense here.
the genders thing is a bit complicated. i think rpgs can get away with it because the point is to roleplay as your own character, but i also think most people make characters to reflect themselves as opposed to playing as someone else. but i'd also just prefer them have only female characters if the male ones would be very limited or look awful. a lot of games targeted at young girls like royale high and dress to impress have such a small amount of male clothing that all looks bad that even as a male its not worth playing with a male character
yea, they would look kinda wonky, then the community would whine about it like they always do (also ty for pointing out the rpg part lol, imo, way more fun to make an "oc" to play with than a representation of yourself in game yk)
TBH, as someone who grew up playing older games on PS2, when there weren't as many woman main characters in games, there are PLENTY of games where you have to play as a male character. I know those are different types of games than SSO, and that since you're allowed to customize everything else about your character in SSO it feels weird that you can't customize their gender. But. I'm just sayin' LOL. I don't feel super bad about people having to play as a girl for once.
So about the subscribtion and gem (StarCoins) prices.. There is a lifetime subscribtion thats worth buying if you play about a year (and there are regular discounts on that). I get the little trick with the weird amount of ingame currency is kind irritating - but thats really an industry trick and standart. As a premium member you get 100 SC each week (although there was a short testing peroid when a lifetime membership didn't get you the 100SC allowance without any notice... that was just really scammy), so you are able to safe up. It think its not fair to compare the game to club pengiun or movie star planet with the price point - those are 2D social browser games. SSO is more of a 3D online action adventure (although they call themselves an MMORPG) thats constantly beeing updated with more conent (quality of content differs though). And you can still log into SSO and hang out with your friends - the locations are just really limited without subscription. And hanging out with your friends is really the only end game in SSO and the same you do in club penguin. (Although SSO limits you because there are no mini games and a horrible chat filter system) Its just bugs me that every everybody in and out the community is constantly arguing about how the game is so expensive for a kids game or just in general. There are no additional fees for add ons in SSO. No additonal cost to the subscription. You know what you are getting. Buying gems (StarCoins) to get new horses is just cosmetical, just like fortnite skins are just cosmetical. Each month there is also the double amount weekend - you get double the amount of gems (StarCoins) and I don't know of any online game that does this kind of discounts on a regular basis; its reliable. Any player will always advise you to never buy gems (StarCoins) outside the double weekend, because it is just more expensive. Additonally. 2017 must have been the time when SSO expanded massively with new languages and more servers world wide. I think they also got into stock exchange about that time or prior. Its only really that the visuals of the game shifted. The whole company or at least the user experience about that changed. I can't really say what it was really, i have been playing SSO for nearly ten years now and I can say I felt the change at that time. The last year felt the same way for me personally as a player but in a more possitve way. Leveling a horse (what was for a long time really everything that the game offers after completing all the quests) got faster and I think thats really just an efford to get the player to buy a new horse faster. But the saisonal events (aside from a bad hiccup with the rainbow event...) and side quests got more engaging and I really hope that this trend of more better content updates will continue. So after my rant about that the stupid pricing stuff; Thank you for looking into the game as an outsider. Really refreshing to hear about the game from someone neutral. All in all a great video!
Edit: Thank you for the corrections and added info! I am aware of the following: - lifetime subscription with a one-off payment (which I AGREE makes the game seem more affordable. I don't know why I thought it was a yearly subscription, my bad <3) - Lisa and Herman were not added with a time-limited event, but part of the whole story - Horse breeds are available all the time once released, unless a magic horse or if they have been deleted. - The book club that I mentioned as ‘Penny Girl’ was actually ‘Pony Club’, an American group that worked with Pixel Tales and Hidden Entertainment.
Note on lifetime, honestly lifetime sounds like a great deal but I do not think the price and what comes with it ($60-70 depends on the country) does not fit the expensive price. I do not mind having to pay for the game, but they price their game like it's a triple AAA when it plays more like a free MMO
I played this game for a little while when I was a child. I grew up poor so I got the subscription maybe a few times in a year, but when you can't play for long periods of time you miss out on events and you're always behind in the story and all the other players were in the new areas that were locked behind paywall. I never actually got far in the story because of the subscription model and stuff being locked behind it. They could have made optional sub but make the main story accessible to all, maybe make money with cosmetics and special horses and dlc/expansions but make it so that poor children who don't have the money for monthly sub still would be able to play the full story and go into new areas. I don't really keep up with the game anymore but I got randomly recommended some videos about it and from what I've heard the game is not doing well so I'm not sure if I'll ever go back to experiencing the full story even though I kinda want to lol.
@@ottertalksgames it's not a charity, it's a company. If they have these prices it is certainly not by chance. If you can't afford 50/55 $ (full game + 2400 star coins every time they offer discounts) it's not their problem, its yours. Also I don't think it's right to complain about prices now and then say in the video that they have a low profit/income lack.
In my opinion, the game does not have to be free. Star Stable is just like any other game. You buy the game once to have access to it. If you don't want to buy the whole game, you can pay a monthly subscription, or just don't buy it altogether. I do believe, that the current price points that the game offers are unjustified, since the game is in a constant limbo of unfinished, story-wise, and the in-game perks are just not enough for a 70$ price point, when i can buy 2-3 full, fleshed out games for the same amount of money. On the other hand, Star Stable was never a free to play game, and it's unreasonable to ask for more for free players, as they're handing out free 2 week subscriptions fairly often. I was also a fairly poor kid, that's just how life is.
Hey, there were at least four different Star Academy games which came out across 2003 - 2006. 'Star Academy: Audition!' (2003), the first, is the one I reference in this video (here's where I got my info: oldgamesdownload.com/star-academy-audition/). Apologies, I probably should have made that clearer! <3
liked the video, but near the end there was a clicking sound, maybe sounded like the opening and closing of a marker or something? nearly made me have to stop watching (sensory issues) just a note but you have a new watcher if that isn't a common theme!
hey! So sorry I was holding my fauna pen and kept clicking it out of habit. I've never used it in video as a pointer before, and it won't happen again <3
Star stable has had a life time subscription since the beginning, it’s become more expensive over the years though, but sometimes they have discounts. I remember I bought the lifetime subscription in 2018 for 40€, when it was originally 60€!
