For the samll amount of time I played Subspace on (some version of) Project M, the pacing was noticeably more bearable with the non auto scrollers. So, I feel like Vanilla Subspace suffers from Brawl's overall game speed and is definitely part of why some people were hoping for its return in Ultimate.
Apparently, SSE's story and enemy designs were handled by some of the people who worked on the Kingdom Hearts series, and Birth By Sleep released 2 years after this game, so... Make of that what you will. :V
Seems like you came into this wanting to play it all in a day and get through it as quick as possible to make the ranking. Playing Subspace with my brother was one of my favorite experiences in gaming ever; we definitely didn't complain about "This level is wayyyy too long" once.
I couldn't be bothered to beat subspace twice so thanks for this breakdown. Great video I find it strange how many things I heard complained about for WOL I also found while playing thru subspace. Cool Bosses, but in repetitive levels, insane padding, and tedious movement (at least for the WOL map) The stand out difference is the reward for playing thru it. They both give you music, characters, and the game's respective unlockable (Mii outfits or trophies) More exlcusive upgrades (Skill spheres & Stickers) Subspace gave you boss battles and a movie. WOL gave you boss battles (after you platform a bit), and spirits. And I'd generally say the latter has more replay value when you account for all the dojos, abilities, and combinations, and summons you could do. I think that's the real reason Sakurai didn't want to make subspace again. It's not _just_ that the cutscenes were put online. (Which sounds petty on paper. I thought that too for a while) If the cutscenes were uploaded then the gameplay needs to be rewarding enough to make you want to beat it, and that doesn't seem to be the case for either single player outside of rare high moments. Regardless of how good they are they take a lot of effort, and if the most notable reward could be achieved only by playing smash bros then I understand why spirits are the way they are and in the long term I find it more satisfying than Brawl's take with how crazy busted they can get at times.
Great Maze couldn't have autoscroll sections because you need to be able to go both ways through every room. The 4 teleports aren't random; they're arranged to align with their map positions.
12:33 This auto scrolling section doesn't look as bad as you are making it out to be. Honestly, the moving ladders seem like a decent unique challenge and the auto scrolling doesn't take away but adds to the challenge by forcing the player under a time limit. It's cool. I just don't think the mentality of "just because it's an auto scroll means it's worse" is the right way to think about these levels.
It is interesting to see how much room for improvement there is in the level design. Makes sense for a game that's literally unique, I don't think a single platformer or beat-em-up with Smash mechanics exists outside of Subspace. Makes it that much worse that World of Light is such a shitshow. What a wasted opportunity.
Nice vid Aiden you've got a very clean editing style and it was a pleasent surprise to see your name pop up in my recommendeds! The most recent time I played through subspace was on project + on intense difficultly and I really think it shores up a lot of the big negatives with sse. The movement in general is more satisfying in p+ which makes the platforming sections more interesting imo and the higher difficulty increases the speed of the auto scrolling sections and makes the beat em up stages actually pretty challenging. Look forward to your next vid!
I haven't really given Subspace a whole lot of thought to be honest. As you mentioned it's a monumental achievement that this story mode in a crossover game even exists, and think I've always kinda viewed it though that lens. I did not grow up with Brawl and I started my Smash Journey with Smash 4. So Subspace to me has always been that cool mode my friends always talked about, and how it should've been in Smash 4 also. So after finally getting Brawl and playing Subspace I kinda just looked past all of the auto-scrollers, played it with set friends who loved it so much and was just in awe that these characters were interacting with each other. But I think even if something an achievement like this should be held to higher scrutiny so the the team who made it can strive for something similar again, and be rid of flaws that Subspace had while emphasizing the strengths too. And I think this video illustrates that pretty well. Well done Aiden, I'll drop a sub for you 😎
Subspace was a great proof of concept. I personally enjoyed it, but agree that the flaws are there. I think it would have been best to improve on it in future installments, but they don't care to for whatever reason. The lack of a Subspace style Adventure mode killed my interest in Ultimate to the point that I've barely plsyrd any of it.
18:05 - Actually, that's the Falcon Flyer, not the Blue Falcon. They are different. The Falcon Flyer is a Smash-exclusive element, debuting in _Melee_ on the Big Blue stage.
Subspace is marginally improved by Project M's better physics, but most of the levels are still stinkers. I think subspace being one big great maze level would have been awesome if they didn't gimp the character physics and centered the level design around platforming rather than beat em up sections. On another note, I'd recommend Slap City's store mode. It's not as grand as subspace and it's rough around the edges with every character proceeding through the same levels, but each level on average is much better designed than any subspace level since the focus is around using character movement tools to platform.
subspace might not be as good as everyone says, but it’s still the best smash bros story mode by default. (FUCK THAT GLORIFIED SM4SH U EVENT MODE THEY CALLED WORLD OF LIGHT)
It took me about 10 fricking years to complete The Great Maze. There we're long periods of time where I didn't play Subspace at all but still lol. I was so happy when I finally figured out what the hell I was doing.
Literally all the enemies in subspace are just diet heartless and nobodies from kingdom hearts without the phenomenal animation and raw aura 😭 primids literally look like they would be a heartless 💀
Honestly I loved Subspace as a kid and a several years ago, right before Ultimate's release I got to play it again, and I gotta say, I genuinely don't mind the stuff like auto-scrolling sections and horde battles. I kinda feel that unless someone is trying to speedrun the game, autoscrolling parts are more a race against time to keep up with the camera while still avoiding obstacles and I like that. Like you said, it is kind of a beat-em-up mode, not just a platformer, which given the fact Smash is a fighting game it kinda makes sense. The only parts I find boring are the ones where you stand on one moving platform for a bit too long. I still wish World of Light would've been something like it. I ain't even looking at Subspace with nostalgia glasses, I just genuinely think for what it tried to do, it did its job pretty well.
I disagree, autoscrollers CAN be what you said but 90% of the time (and 100% of time in Subspace) its just padding that actively takes control away from the player.
@@Jc27uhh4h4h4 I thought they was getting mad at the uninspired, and repetitive level design. Like the constant use of horde battles, and the tedious enemies like mites. Their favorite level was the Great Maze which has some of the most enemies in any level.
Subspace may not be the best game but it at the very least isnt world of light. Trying to get through that game mode may have actually made me enjoy the game less. That game mode is a slog.
I think what made Subspace great was seeing characters from diferent franchises interacting with each other, almost like a fanfic a kid would create. I for example loved Star Fox 64 and Donkey Kong 64 as a kid, so playing as Fox and Diddy together in Brawl was a very unique experience. It is the whole point of a crossover Subspace also makes you like characters you didnt even know. For example, I of course had never played Kid Icarus when I played Brawl, but after playing Subspace you kinda get a little attached to Pit; he is no longer a random obscure character from a game I never played, he is that cool guy from Subspace. Smash 4 didnt have this, so many of its characters ended up just being random characters to me. Shulk is a great example of this
Tbh I think so much of the levels are made the cutscenes. For example, The reason the hoard battle in the final research facility level works is because the entire game has been building to ROB’s reveal. Talking about levels without mentioning their cutscenes takes away a lot of the appeal of subspace
While I think that's a good point, I think the gameplay should be able to stand on its own, or at least somewhat on its own. If not, you end up slogging through gameplay just to get to the next cutscene.
You misremembered the Great Maze. You don’t collect the fighters in the maze you collect them in the 2 Subspace levels with Dedede gang and Kirby. The Great Maze you collect no powerups or characters, you just fight every character and bosses using the characters you obtained from the Subspace levels. And also even if you did collect the characters in the Maze, The Great Maze wouldn’t be considered a Metroidvannia because that genre is focused on allowing upgrades to access new areas while the Great Maze any character can access the whole map. Great video though. It really goes into detail why Subspace isn’t as good of a crossover as many people view it as due to having bad Kirby level syndrome for the whole game.
You can't play as those characters until you've beaten them in the void/soul/whatever that thing is so I'd still attribute it to power ups. The 2nd part though yeah I got that wrong. Nice pfp by the way, As an awesome character.
@@HiImAidenNo? I read the Smash Wiki and watched videos, you start with every character you got in Subspace 1 and 2 and you don’t unlock them or gain access to them by beating the soul characters. But thank you for the compliment, I love A…a lot lol.
@@HiImAidenCan confirm without a doubt, you have everyone you rescued in Subspace 1/2 right off the bat, which means pretty much the whole roster (minus Sonic/Toon Link/Jigglypuff/Wolf) unless you left someone behind. You still fight clones of the mandatory characters aka King Dedede, Luigi, Ness, Kirby and Bowser. Might be some World of Light memory mixed in to think defeating a character unlocks them.
Someone finally says it. I played this as a kid too but never understood the reverence even back then. 9/10 stages are either boring or completely obnoxious
@@HiImAiden you should try tagging stuff. I saw this video in my recommended but clicked off the page and it took like 10 mins of searching youtube to find it again (maybe youtube search is just bad now though) but with better SEO more people would see your videos
Subspace was pretty fun for it's time but I think the bigger reason people have nostalgia for it is because, like mentioned in the video, the cutscenes are still really cool for their age with the little story it tells with (almost) all the characters, and there is hardly any actual dialogue, it's just "show don't tell"
Not only that, but having a dedicated story mode automatically opens it up for speedrunning and challenge runs. Honestly that itself is a really underrated part of a video games lifespan.
also btw, for a better experience (i havent played the original subspace), play subspace in p+, thats how i played through most of it and it seemed that the movement felt a lot better compared to normal brawl movement in subspace
